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Author Topic: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder  (Read 92087 times)

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Offline tfs8271

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2008, 02:38:04 AM »
^ we will have to see.  8)
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Offline Ozpeter

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2008, 04:22:17 AM »
Quote
Digital trim/level give much better chance that all channels have inherent known/precision tracking ability. Possible to set exact 'dB' adjustments.
If you're talking about digital control of the analog input circuitry, that makes sense, but digital control of the digital circuitry is what you should do in your DAW after (well, assuming you don't just play stuff back from the recorder as is).  Digitally changing the value of the bits being recorded to the digital recording medium during recording is absolutely the same as digitally changing them during playback or editing on the way back from the medium - where you get a chance to change your mind.

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #47 on: January 29, 2008, 08:48:48 AM »
My objection with actual analog (resistive trim/level knob/slider control) is they do not track well enough, at least for my purposes using matched/calibrated multi-channel mics.  

Digital trim/level give much better chance that all channels have inherent known/precision tracking ability. Possible to set exact 'dB' adjustments.

What I would like to see, and spoke to SD engineer about this, is feature to fix each channel gain/level independently (like to calibrate not so precision matched mics), THEN have ability to adjust master level with all channels tracking up/down together, but maintaining the preset channel offset.   None of the two or 4 channel digital decks I've checked seem able to do this.

That's a great idea for any recorder, even more important with a 4 track machine.
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Offline guysonic

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #48 on: January 29, 2008, 09:05:13 AM »
Quote
Digital trim/level give much better chance that all channels have inherent known/precision tracking ability. Possible to set exact 'dB' adjustments.
If you're talking about digital control of the analog input circuitry, that makes sense, but digital control of the digital circuitry is what you should do in your DAW after (well, assuming you don't just play stuff back from the recorder as is).  Digitally changing the value of the bits being recorded to the digital recording medium during recording is absolutely the same as digitally changing them during playback or editing on the way back from the medium - where you get a chance to change your mind.

From that perspective, you're right about applying channel (mic input) gain tweaking in post DAW.  And I see no reason this is any different than having in-deck fixed trim tracking ability.

FR-2LE is one of the decks I've not yet bench/features tested.  And maybe SD 2-channel decks have this same ability, but not 744T with only 2 out of 4 channels having in-deck 'mic preamp' input/possible trim/then master up/down level setting tracking feature.

With most these digital decks using at least one stage of VCA (voltage controlled amplifier) in each recording channel, or direct analog signal into a single CODEC IC with internal analog amps also being digitally controlled in some manner, I personally see this an improvement over resistive-mechanical knob/fader channel gain for most accurate up/down level adjustments.

I did have chance to work original Fostex FR-2 deck, and this with resistive knob first gain stage trim using a very small knob, and then larger dual locking master level adjust knob on deck's front panel. 

So if I remember correctly, this deck has two possible channel offset features, top-panel individual channel trims, and front panel master with locking tracking ability, but of dubious channel match accuracy. 

I remember thinking FR-2 has too much room for tracking error, and no easy way to adjust absolute channel gain precision if mics that were already precision matched unless all the way or down (at the rotation stops) of the small top-panel channel trim knobs. 

For consistent balanced stereo recording with known applied 2-channel tracking, such 'analog' type controls are most problematic, with 'stepped' digital gain control having much better tracking accuracy.

For that reason, I personally avoid the use of knob gain controls on my all analog preamplifiers.  Instead use precision fixed resistor network with a multiple position switch so channel gain always with <0.1 dB channel tracking error; actually better precision than than most 'digital' systems using VCA circuitry.
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Offline oscoastierob

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #49 on: January 29, 2008, 07:45:21 PM »
I'm curious if you can mix analog and digital inputs like the R4 Pro.

If it can I'll be getting one.

Looks like it can....
From the user's manual:

Peluso CEMC-6 /CK2, CK4, CK21, CK41-> Hydra Silver XLRs-> XTC silver interconnects-> UA-5 BM2p+ mod-> SPDIF-> R4

Offline Rick

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2008, 07:51:22 PM »
I'm curious if you can mix analog and digital inputs like the R4 Pro.

If it can I'll be getting one.

Looks like it can....
From the user's manual:



Dang! this changes things!
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Offline Shawn

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2008, 08:06:16 PM »
looks like the only thing keeping me from making the leap is..... how do the pre-amps sound.

Offline willndmb

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2008, 08:06:22 PM »
I'm curious if you can mix analog and digital inputs like the R4 Pro.

If it can I'll be getting one.

Looks like it can....
From the user's manual:


NICE
i am liking this box more and more
even though i prob wouldn't do 4 channels much
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
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Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2008, 07:10:07 AM »
If they sound like the R4, they are usable.  but not great.
if they sound like the R4 pro, same as above.

mod'd..., i hope to see this box kick some ass.

Just when I get a new deck...this comes out.
::)

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2008, 09:09:20 AM »
If they sound like the R4, they are usable.  but not great.
if they sound like the R4 pro, same as above.

mod'd..., i hope to see this box kick some ass.

Just when I get a new deck...this comes out.
::)

Here's hoping the same mods will apply..
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Shawn

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2008, 09:36:34 AM »
Here's hoping the same mods will apply..
I don't see how they can. the R-4 handles the gain in the analog section and the r-44 handles it in the digital domain.

Offline Todd R

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2008, 10:14:26 AM »
Here's hoping the same mods will apply..
I don't see how they can. the R-4 handles the gain in the analog section and the r-44 handles it in the digital domain.

There will be an analog input section with capacitors and op amps feeding into the A/D section.  This will allow for the typical mods/upgrades.  I'm betting Busman will be planning on working some magic with the R44. :)
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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2008, 10:57:20 AM »
safe bet.

Offline Shawn

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2008, 11:50:45 AM »
I'm sure there will be parts in the analog path that are worth upgrading, and that those who are capable of such work (busman/oade) will be able to improve the quality of that path. however, I'm afraid that the same level of improvement in sound as seen in the R-4 may be hard to achieve since the lion's share of the gain will be done in the digital domain. Of course I'm not sure how the gain is handled once it's in the digital domain. The big question in my mind is.. is the work done via hardware or software? If it's software I seriously doubt there will be much oade/busman can do in that arena. If it's handled via hardware then maybe there are chipsets that could be considered an improvement over the stock compenents in the r-44.

then again maybe the stock components will be of far superior quality to anything edirol has ever done, and we'll all be blown away by the stock unit. a guy can dream right  ;D

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Re: Edirol R-44 - Solid State 4 channel recorder
« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2008, 12:28:33 PM »
I'm sure there will be parts in the analog path that are worth upgrading, and that those who are capable of such work (busman/oade) will be able to improve the quality of that path. however, I'm afraid that the same level of improvement in sound as seen in the R-4 may be hard to achieve since the lion's share of the gain will be done in the digital domain.

That doesnt make sense - I would think...The "Lion's share" will come from the trimmer - in the analog domain...

Remember the "level of sonic improvement" might not be the same because this might not suck as badly as a stock R4...

 

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