Topic: Matrix Aud & SBD in Wavelab6

[jbell]

So I've only done one 4 channel show and seemed to have deleted the nice tutorial Gordan pm'd me!    I know there was a post by newplanet on the steps to follow for this can someone help me out I can't seem to find the thread.  I have a AUD & SBD Greensky Bluegrass show I need to upload.  TIA

[Teen Age Riot]

This is how I use it:

File>New>Audio Montage>set samling rate. Multitrack window opens.
Right click on the track number ("1") on the left of the multitrack window and select "add stereo track" which should be at the top of the list. You now have two empty stereo tracks.
To add files, right click into the tracks and select "paste audio file(s)". When both files are open, look for transients that stand out in both files and use them as reference points to set the delay between the two files, i.e. move the sbd file "forward" until it syncs with the aud file. This can be difficult and I'm not sure if there a "right" way to do it. Use your ears.

You can add effects to the individual tracks in the left part of the multitrack window (where it says "no fx") or to the master bus.

If you need to resample and add dither, you can do so during the mixdown by adding the "crystal resampler" plugin to the master bus and turning on "dithering" as you would normally do when working on normal stereo files. Hit render and get a cup of coffee.

 

[goodcooker]

I go about it a little differently.

This is IF your sources are clock synced and what I do for a matrix of sbd+room mics.

Open new Audio Montage, select sample rate of intended files
Click the Open button inside the project window
choose your files click OK then select "place on separate tracks"
Go to the Clips tab
Add milliseconds to the start of the sbd equal to the number of feet your room mics were away from the center of the stage

Listen for comb filtering in the bass and smear in the high end. You can use the up/down arrows next to the start values to tweak a few ms each direction on playback to find the spot.

If you are combining two sources from different clocks I can't help you much there....I never had any success doing more than two channels that way...but this should get you started either way.

[jibooer]

used these tutorials to mix  down my first 4 channel and worked like a charm...thank guys

[acidjack]

To align, I find it easiest to do visually.  Line up the two tracks, click so that there is a vertical line running down both (this works in Audacity and Audition and I assume every other program).

Put the line down on a defined easy-to-find thing like a single drum hit or a short burst of speech.

Drag the "earlier" track to the later track until they line up.  Listen to confirm you're not "seeing things"

[andyjah]

To align, I find it easiest to do visually.  Line up the two tracks, click so that there is a vertical line running down both (this works in Audacity and Audition and I assume every other program).

Put the line down on a defined easy-to-find thing like a single drum hit or a short burst of speech.

Drag the "earlier" track to the later track until they line up.  Listen to confirm you're not "seeing things"

Same here. I zoom way in and will even use a straight edge of some sort to line them up(festival flyers work great). Then I use my ears to make sure they are on. Even on stage mixes tend to need a little adjustment.

[ziko]

I do not use wavelab but...I do align by eye. i use the basic .001 per ft to get the rough starting point. I have done mostly stage and am with andy that stage mixes can use minor adjustments as well. One thing I always try to remember to do  now is to change the phase on the mix to listen both ways.  the sound can be drastically different.....from no bass to thumping etc. either you possibly need to adjust your point or choose which phase sounds best. sure if i went back to some I have done in the past I would now do differently..............if recorded from two recorders i align a early and late point to make sure there is no drift or minimal. if there is you will need to compensate

my .02

[deadheadcorey]

how do you adjust the different percentage of each source you wanna use in wavelab6?

also is there any delay with onstage mics?

[Teen Age Riot]

how do you adjust the different percentage of each source you wanna use in wavelab6?

Not sure what you mean exactly, but you basically adjust the volumes of the two stereo tracks until it sounds right to you. For me, "right" means a pretty direct sound with just enough ambiance and "live" feel. I don't like it too roomy, unless the room sounds very nice. Often though, the audience recording may have some sonic information that the board is lacking, so I won't be able to mix as soundboard-heavy as I would like to. It's almost always a compromise solution.

also is there any delay with onstage mics?

Possibly. It would obviously depend on the size of the stage and the distance between your mics and the instruments you're recording. So yes, it would make sense to check for comb filtering and smear when you're mixing.

[Gordon]

how do you adjust the different percentage of each source you wanna use in wavelab6?

Not sure what you mean exactly, but you basically adjust the volumes of the two stereo tracks until it sounds right to you.

right.  use the volume slider on the left of each source.  If my aud isn't too chatty I prefer a 50/50 mix.   to accomplish this I adjust gain in the aud or sbd as needed in wavelab (not montage) till they pretty much match.  then when they are loaded into the montage by default the volume slider is the same for both.  this is close to a 50/50 mix since I matched the gain of both.  if the aud is chatty I still match the gain but then I drop the slider on the aud portion till I like the way it sounds.

[deadheadcorey]

okay i get the sources matched up but by the 3rd song they are off. i hear the delay with onstage mics. how do you adjust the delay in wavelab?

[Teen Age Riot]

Did you use different recorders?
In that case, you can do it song by song or you can use wave lab's time stretch function (I think that's what it' called) to change one of the files so they match up. The latter solution implies that the time drift is constant, something I'm not sure about. Others swear by that method though...

None of these strategies have really worked for me in the past, which is why I finally got a four-track recorder last year.

[runonce]

okay i get the sources matched up but by the 3rd song they are off. i hear the delay with onstage mics. how do you adjust the delay in wavelab?

Thats not delay - thats the drift between the clocks in your recorders. One might be 44.10 the other 44.056 (just for example)
The result is - one source will playback a tiny bit faster than the other. (and continue to fall more and more out of sync)

You're going to have to get the math down - and adjust the sample rate on one of your tracksets.
Then you can combine without drift.

There are some stickies/tutorials for making this adjustment - but I think most revolve around Audacity.

[deadheadcorey]

yea used 2 different recorders

[Gordon]

with two different recorders I've always used the "chop method".

http://www.taperssection.com/reference/pdf/Wavelab5Matrix_MikeB.pdf

[deadheadcorey]

with two different recorders I've always used the "chop method".

http://www.taperssection.com/reference/pdf/Wavelab5Matrix_MikeB.pdf

thanks for this gordon, best thing ever... just did the 1st set of a show and this worked like a charm! 

[runonce]

with two different recorders I've always used the "chop method".

http://www.taperssection.com/reference/pdf/Wavelab5Matrix_MikeB.pdf

thanks for this gordon, best thing ever... just did the 1st set of a show and this worked like a charm! 

Great if the band is only playing 3 minute songs all night - but it really doesnt address the drift...the first time you have a long jam - or two songs joined together - the drift will become noticeable again.

The other is issue here is musical - one recording is faster - and a higher pitch than the other. You want both recordings to be "in tune" with each other for the most musical effect.

[Gordon]

when I use to do the chop method I didn't bust into actual tracks but split it every 3-5 mins or so as mentioned.

[F.O.Bean]

when I use to do the chop method I didn't bust into actual tracks but split it every 3-5 mins or so as mentioned.

Howd you do that w/ out time stretching the files?

[deadheadcorey]

well this is what the final product turn out to be >>>

http://www-tracey.archive.org/details/shakedownst2012-05-19.mtx.kindrec

[runonce]

when I use to do the chop method I didn't bust into actual tracks but split it every 3-5 mins or so as mentioned.

Howd you do that w/ out time stretching the files?

I think they are ignoring the time difference and just resyncing each segment.

And - It still leaves you with two, ever so slightly out of tune sources, playing together.