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Offline greenone

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Legal info on recording
« on: July 26, 2004, 03:38:38 PM »
Ok...hopefully this thread can become a repository for individual states' laws on what we do - what the laws are, what our rights are, etc. Mostly I'm hoping to include advice from people who actually know what they're talking about (i.e. lawyers or those who have studied this kind of stuff), or from people willing to do the footwork and track down links to their particular state's legal code and post the pertinent information.



BIG EDIT: The original information (that not between these two lines) may no longer apply. A new statute was passed in 2006 that appears to supersede the code below. The full code can be seen here now:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00002319---A000-.html

The upshot is that penalties are MUCH worse...but now the all-important clause about "commercial advantage or private financial gain" has been inserted, and the clause about state laws having precedence over federal law has been removed. So bottom line - it appears that not-for-profit recording is technically legal even if not authorized by the artist, though you may have difficulty proving that you have no financial motives in a timely fashion that will enable you to continue your recording if the authorities decide to stop you. :)



In general, the national law is this:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/1101.html

The penalties are detailed here:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/502.html
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/503.html
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/504.html
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/505.html

Briefly, recording and trading without the artist's consent is a violation of Federal law and brings with it the penalties that come from copyright infringement (actual damages and profits, or statutory damages between $200 and $150,000 plus possible additional damages as well as legal/court fees).

HOWEVER, the very last part of section 1101 says that state laws are not pre-empted. Whether this means that federal laws do not apply if there's a state law, or if they apply in ADDITION to the states' laws, is not clear. Hence my hope that lawyers will help us out here. :)

The general state party line is, if the artist says it's ok, you're not breaking the law. If the artist doesn't say it's ok, you're usually not breaking the law as long as it's for non-commercial use. Some states go so far as to say that distributing it isn't ok but owning it for personal use is permissible; these are noted in the posts for that particular state.

--Dave

ps. Eventually my aim is to get one post for each state on this thread, except for states whose laws I can't find, which will be listed here (but deleted if I or someone else finds them): Vermont and Texas don't appear to have anything having to do with piracy or recordings at all.
Alaska, Colorado, Georgia, Hawaii, Iowa, Ohio, Minnesota, Maine, Nebraska, South Dakota and Utah have "sound recording" statutes that deal with piracy (copying commercial recordings) and not specifically with live recordings (though a bill has been introduced in Colorado). If this is the case, the Federal laws likely apply, so bear that in mind if you ever get caught stealthing in these states!

pps. Links are provided for those who wish to read the whole text for a particular state. I've quoted the relevant parts for our purposes and included any notes that make that state more or less restrictive than others.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:30:09 PM by greenone »
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Offline greenone

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New York
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2004, 03:43:02 PM »
Here's a link to the New York state laws. Most significant here is that the venue can ask for your equipment, and if you refuse, they can ask you to leave, but must offer to refund your ticket price.

http://www.solorb.com/dat-heads/digests/V6.400/D424#Msg16

Quote
  s 31.01. Unauthorized photographs and sound recordings of performances

   2. No person shall take any photograph or make any sound recording of any performance presented in a theatre without having first obtained the written consent of the management to do so. [...]
   3. If any person admitted or seeking admission to a theatre in which a performance is to be or is being presented, attempts to bring into, or brings into such theatre any photographic or sound recording device without having first obtained the written consent of the management to do so, such management shall have the right to request and obtain possession of such photographic or sound recording device until the conclusion of such performance.  The management shall give a receipt for such device, and shall be liable for any damage to such device or loss or theft of such device while in their care.
   4. If any person admitted or seeking admission to a theatre in which a performance is to be or is being presented, refuses or fails to give or surrender possession of any photographic or sound recording device which such person has brought into or attempts to bring into such theatre without having first obtained the written consent of the management to do so, then the management shall have the right to remove such person therefrom or refuse admission thereto to such person, and shall thereupon
offer to refund and, unless such offer is refused, refund to such person the price paid by such person for admission to such theatre.  If such person refuses to leave such theatre after having been informed by the management thereof that possession of any photographic or sound recording device in such theatre without the written consent of the management is prohibited, then such person shall be deemed to be remaining in the theatre unlawfully within the meaning of subdivision five of section 140.00 and section 140.05 of the penal law, and in addition, the management shall have the right to maintain an action in trespass and for punitive damages against such person.
   5. The criminal penalties [i.e., trespass-DE] and civil remedies provided by this section shall be without force or effect unless the management of the theatre shall have posted
signs at the box office and at or near the audience entrance to the portion of the theatre wherein the performance is to be presented and printed in any program which may be furnished to the audience for such performance, stating in substance as follows:

                                      WARNING

   The photographing or sound recording of any performance or the possession of any device for such photographing or sound recording inside this theatre, without the written permission of the management is prohibited by law.  Offenders may be ejected
and liable for damages and other lawful remedies.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2005, 02:50:05 PM by greenone »
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Massachusetts
« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2004, 03:51:22 PM »
Here's the only citation I could find in Massachusetts general law. Of note here is that the recording is "for commercial advantage or private financial gain", or that it is advertised for such purposes.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/266-143b.htm

Quote
Chapter 266: Section 143B Unauthorized reproduction and sale of live performances

  Section 143B. Whoever for commercial advantage or private financial gain records or causes to be recorded a live performance with knowledge that such recording is without the consent of the owner, or advertises, sells, rents, transports or causes to be advertised, sold, rented or transported, or possesses for any of such purposes, a recording of a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance was recorded without the consent of the owner, shall be punished as provided in section 143E.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 01:46:48 PM by greenone »
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New Hampshire
« Reply #3 on: July 28, 2004, 12:18:10 PM »
New Hampshire state law appears very lenient in the matter:

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/xxxi/352-a/352-a-2.htm

Quote
    352-A:2 Acts Prohibited. – It shall be unlawful for any person to:
    I. Knowingly transfer or cause to be transferred to any article on which sounds are recorded, directly or indirectly by any means, with the intent to sell such article or cause it to be sold or to be used for profit:
[...]
       (b) Any performance, whether live before an audience or transmitted by radio, television or other means, without the prior express written consent of the performer.
[...]
    III. This section does not apply to:
[...]
       (b) Any person who transfers, or causes to be transferred, any such sounds intended for or in connection with:
[...]
          (3) home or personal use, without involving compensation or profit.

Basically, as long as you're doing it for  personal use, you're in the clear, even regardless of the artist's knowledge or permission.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2005, 03:01:00 PM by greenone »
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Rhode Island
« Reply #4 on: July 28, 2004, 12:41:13 PM »
Here's what I found in Rhode Island's general laws:

http://www.rilin.state.ri.us/statutes/title6/6%2D13.1/6%2D13.1%2D15.htm

Quote
   § 6-13.1-15  Piracy of recordings. –
[...]
   (b) Unless exempt under subsection (d), it is unlawful for any person, firm, partnership, corporation, or association knowingly to:

   (2) Transfer or cause to be transferred any performance, whether live before an audience or transmitted by wire or through the air by radio or television, onto any article; or

   (3) Sell, distribute, circulate, offer for sale, distribution, or circulation, possess for the purpose of sale, distribution, or circulation, or cause to be sold, distributed, circulated, offered for sale, distribution, or circulation, or possessed for sale, distribution, or circulation, any article on which sounds or performances have been transferred without the consent of the person who owns the master article from which the sounds are derived or the right to record the performance.
[...]
   (d) This section does not apply to any person who transfers or causes to be transferred any sounds or images intended for or in connection with radio or television broadcast transmission or related uses, for archival purposes or solely for the personal use of the person transferring or causing the transfer and without any compensation being derived by the person from the transfer.

Basically the same as New Hampshire, except "personal use" is defined as being only for the person doing the recording. What's a bit odd here is that point 3 implies that it's ok to sell, distribute or circulate something with the artist's permission, but point 2 says it's not ok to record ANY performance. I would guess that with permission is implied but it's a bit unclear.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2005, 03:02:35 PM by greenone »
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New Jersey
« Reply #5 on: July 28, 2004, 05:24:06 PM »
From the New Jersey Code of Criminal Justice, section 2C:21-21:

http://lis.njleg.state.nj.us/cgi-bin/om_isapi.dll?clientID=195678&Depth=2&depth=2&expandheadings=on&headingswithhits=on&hitsperheading=on&infobase=statutes.nfo&record={1809}&softpage=Document42

Quote
    c. A person commits an offense who:
[...]
    (3) Knowingly manufactures or transfers, directly or indirectly by any means, or records or fixes a sound recording or audiovisual work, with the intent to sell or distribute for commercial advantage or private financial gain, a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance has been recorded or fixed without the consent of the owner of the live performance.

[...]
    f. The provisions of this act shall not apply to:
[...]
    (2) Any person who, in his own home, for his own personal use, and without deriving any profit, transfers any sounds or images recorded on a sound recording or audiovisual work.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 02:03:02 PM by greenone »
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Maryland
« Reply #6 on: July 28, 2004, 05:31:15 PM »
Maryland:

http://mlis.state.md.us/asp/statutes_respond_2009.asp?article=gcr&section=7-308&Extension=HTML

Quote
§ 7-308.
Criminal Law
[...]
      (c)      Except as otherwise provided in this section, a person may not knowingly deliver, offer for delivery, possess for delivery, cause to be delivered, cause to be offered for delivery, or cause to be possessed for delivery a recorded article or device:
[...]
            (2)      embodying a performance without the consent of the performer.

"Delivery" is defined earlier in the statute as "to sell, rent, distribute, or circulate." This would seem to indicate that even trading stealth tapes without the artist's permission is illegal in Maryland.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 02:05:59 PM by greenone »
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Offline macdaddy

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2004, 07:40:10 PM »
nice work, greenone.

any info re: CA ..?
-macdaddy ++

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2004, 04:38:00 PM »
Looks like good info to add to the taper's manual being worked on around here.  It would be sweet to have the laws for all the states.  Comments?
It’s not what you look like when you’re doin’ what you’re doin’, it’s what your doin’ when you’re doin’ what you look like your doin’…express yourself. - Charles Wright

My recordings on the Archive

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Re: New Jersey
« Reply #9 on: August 26, 2004, 09:40:40 PM »
New Jersey represent... This link is actually to a bill to modify Title 2C:21-21, aka the New Jersey Anti-Piracy Act, but the non-underlined parts detail the law as it currently stands. 2C:21-21 does appear on the NJ Legislature web site, but the link is way too long and may be client-dependent, so I'm using this one instead.

http://www.njleg.state.nj.us/2004/Bills/S2000/1515_I1.HTM

In NJ, the consent of the artist is important, unlike New Hampshire.

I find it ironic that Bob Dylan sang, "In New Jersey anything is legal, as long as you don't get caught."

Thanks for the info.
Is verbal O.K. defensable ?  If you get it on tape ?    ;)

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2005, 06:58:00 PM »
damon, dan estrin compiled the laws for every state a few years back and posted to datheads.  check it out

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2005, 10:37:22 AM »
All I could find was the New York laws that are linked above...any chance you've got a link?
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California
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2005, 11:39:35 AM »
Ok...I'm back on the job.

The appropriate entry in California's Penal Code is 653u, which can be found here:

http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=pen&group=00001-01000&file=639-653.1

Quote
653u.  (a) Any person who records or masters or causes to be
recorded or mastered on any article with the intent to sell for
commercial advantage or private financial gain, the sounds of a live
performance with the knowledge that the sounds thereon have been
recorded or mastered without the consent of the owner of the sounds
of  the live performance is guilty of a public offense punishable as
provided in subdivisions (d) and (e).
   (b) In the absence of a written agreement or operation of law to
the contrary, the performer or performers of the sounds of a live
performance shall be presumed to own the right to record or master
those sounds.

The usual caveats apply here - recordings are ok with the artist's permission and if they aren't for commercial purposes.

653aa (a bit further up the page) is California's P2P law, which is interesting in that it mentions that distributing recordings which the artist has okayed, is not punishable by law, specifically section (c)(2).
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 02:10:17 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2005, 12:12:38 PM »
Here's Pennsylvania's statute:

link]http://weblinks.westlaw.com/result/Default.aspx?cite=UUID(NDBDC46F034-2D11DA8A989-F4EECDB8638)&db=1000262&findtype=VQ&fn=_top&ifm=NotSet&rlt=CLID_FQRLT3568151813612&rp=%2FSearch%2Fdefault.wl&rs=WEBL8.11&service=Find&spa=pac-1000&sr=TC&vr=2.0]link

Quote
§ 4116. Copying; recording devices.
[...]
      (d.1) Manufacture, sale or rental of a recording of a live performance without consent of the owner.--
         1. It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly manufacture, transport, sell, resell, rent, advertise or offer for sale, resale or rental or cause the manufacture, sale, resale or rental or possess for such purpose or purposes any recording of a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance has been recorded without the consent of the owner.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 02:18:49 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2005, 12:25:02 PM »
Here's Ohio:

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/1333.52

This appears to be more of a record piracy statute than a live performance recording, but it's all I could find.

Interestingly, the last line states that the law does not apply to "(a)ny person who transcribes sounds for personal use" and appears to be regardless of whether the artist has consented or not.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 09:54:35 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2005, 12:43:26 PM »
Illinois has a specific provision for live recording in their antipiracy code:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072000050K16-7.htm

Quote
(720 ILCS 5/16‑7) (from Ch. 38, par. 16‑7)
    Sec. 16‑7. Unlawful use of recorded sounds or images.
    (a) A person commits unlawful use of recorded sounds or images when he:
[...]
        (4) Intentionally, knowingly or recklessly transfers or causes to be transferred without the consent of the owner, any live performance with the purpose of selling or causing to be sold, or using or causing to be used for profit the sound or audio visual recording to which the performance is transferred.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 09:56:14 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2005, 02:41:08 PM »
Indiana - see both IC 35-43-4-1 and IC 35-43-4-5:

http://www.in.gov/legislative/ic/code/title35/ar43/ch4.html

Quote
IC 35-43-4
     Chapter 4. Theft, Conversion, and Receiving Stolen Property

IC 35-43-4-1
Definitions
     Sec. 1.
[...]
    (b) Under this chapter, a person's control over property of another person is "unauthorized" if it is exerted:
[...]
        [8] by transferring or reproducing:
            (A) recorded sounds; or
            (B) a live performance;
without consent of the owner of the master recording or the live performance, with intent to distribute the reproductions for a profit.
[...]
IC 35-43-4-5
Defenses
     Sec. 5. [...]
    (c) A person who transfers or reproduces recorded sounds in connection with a broadcast or telecast, or for archival purposes, does not commit a crime under this chapter, even if he does not have the consent of the owner of the master recording.

It's unclear exactly what constitutes being the owner of the master recording of a live performance here - whether the owner is the performer or the recorder.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2005, 03:21:00 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2005, 10:14:31 AM »
Haven't gotten the DATs but we have a mail room here (we live in a dorm at a boarding school) so it can be slowish at times.

Good point about that dealing with already-existing recordings. I did some further research on California (I'm not a lawyer either, but I'm both bored at work and persistent...heh) and a bit further down the page are 653s and 653u:

Quote
653s.  (a) Any person who transports or causes to be transported for
monetary or other consideration within this state, any article
containing sounds of a live performance with the knowledge that the
sounds thereon have been recorded or mastered without the consent of
the owner of the sounds of the live performance is guilty of a public
offense punishable as provided in subdivision (g) or (h).

Quote
653u.  (a) Any person who records or masters or causes to be
recorded or mastered on any article with the intent to sell for
commercial advantage or private financial gain, the sounds of a live
performance with the knowledge that the sounds thereon have been
recorded or mastered without the consent of the owner of the sounds
of  the live performance is guilty of a public offense punishable as
provided in subdivisions (d) and (e).

SO - it all hinges on what "transport" means (mail? car? just handing it to someone?), and whether trading constitutes "other consideration" in 653s. Because if you transport recordings made without the artist's permission for "other consideration", it's against the law. But if it's recorded with the artist's permission, you're in the clear.
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2005, 11:05:02 AM »
Here's Michigan's law:

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(ikdzxzfcjzvd5mqywaacsz3e))/mileg.aspx?page=getObject&objectName=mcl-752-1052

Quote

752.1052 Prohibited conduct; applicability of subsection (1)(a) and (b).
Sec. 2.
(1) A person shall not directly or indirectly do any of the following:
(a) Transfer a live performance onto a recording without the consent of the owner for commercial advantage or private financial gain.
[...]
(2) Subsection (1)(a) and (b) shall not apply to recordings that are transferred solely for the personal use of the person transferring the recording and the person does not derive any compensation from the transfer.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 01:43:13 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2005, 11:24:20 AM »
Wisconsin:

http://nxt.legis.state.wi.us/nxt/gateway.dll/Statutes%20Related/Wisconsin%20Statutes/16104/16133

Quote
943.208 Recording performance without consent of performance owner.

943.208(1)
(1) Whoever does any of the following for commercial advantage or private financial gain may be penalized as provided in sub. (2):
 
943.208(1)(a)
(a)  Creates a recording of a performance without consent of the performance owner and with intent to sell or rent the recording.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:00:05 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2005, 12:24:23 PM »
Tennessee:

http://michie.lexisnexis.com/tennessee/lpext.dll/tncode/11662/11bd7/11be1/11cb6?

Quote
39-14-139. Recorded device.
(c) (1)  It is unlawful for any person to knowingly manufacture, transfer, record or store on any recorded device, with the intent to sell for commercial advantage or financial gain, a live performance knowing the live performance was recorded or stored without the consent of the owner of the live performance. 
(2) It is unlawful for any person to knowingly advertise, sell, rent, transport or possess with the intent to sell, rent or transport, for commercial advantage or private financial gain, a recorded device containing a live performance knowing that the live performance has been recorded or stored without the consent of the owner of the live performance. 
(3) As used in this section, "live performance" means the recitation, rendering or playing of a series of images and/or musical, spoken or other sounds, in any audible sequence. 
[Acts 1989, ch. 591, § 1; 1990, ch. 1000, §§ 1-4.]
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:02:29 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2005, 12:28:30 PM »
Kentucky:

http://www.lrc.state.ky.us/krs/434-00/445.pdf

Quote
434.445   Unauthorized reproduction and distribution of recorded article or device for sale or rent -- Exemption -- Confiscation and destruction -- Penalties.

(2) Any person who knowingly transfers or causes to be transferred to any phonograph record, disc, wire, tape, film, or other article, any performance, whether live before an audience or transmitted by wire or through the air by radio or television, with the intent to sell or cause to be sold for profit or used to promote the sale of any product, such article onto which such performance is or distributes, causes the distribution of, or possesses for one (1) or more of these purposes, to be transferred without the consent of the performer, shall be fined not less than five hundred dollars ($500) nor more than three thousand dollars ($3,000) or confined in the penitentiary for not less than one (1) year nor more than five (5) years, or both. Each individual transfer or manufacture of such recorded article shall constitute a separate offense. For purposes of this section, a person who is authorized to maintain custody and control over business records that reflect whether or not the owner of the live performance consented to having the live performance recorded or fixed is a proper witness in a proceeding regarding the issue of consent.
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2005, 12:45:36 PM »
North Carolina:

http://law.justia.com/northcarolina/codes/chapter_14/gs_14-433.html

Quote
§ 14‑433.  Recording of live performances or recorded sounds and distribution, etc., of such recordings unlawful in certain circumstances.

(a1)     It shall be unlawful for any person to:

(1)       Knowingly transfer or cause to be transferred, directly or indirectly by any means, any sounds at a live performance, with the intent to sell or cause to be sold, or to use or cause to be used for profit through public performance, the article on which sounds are so transferred, without consent of the owner.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:05:31 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2005, 12:49:12 PM »
South Carolina:

http://www.scstatehouse.net/code/t16c011.htm

Quote
SECTION 16-11-915. Prohibitions relative to live performances; persons considered proper witnesses; application of section.

(A) It is unlawful for a person to:

(1) advertise or offer for sale or resale, or sell or resell, or cause the sale or resale, or rent or cause the rental of, or transport or cause to be transported, or possess for any of these purposes for commercial advantage or private financial gain any article containing a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance has been fixed without the consent of the owner of the live performance; or

(2) record or fix or cause to be recorded or fixed on an article with the intent to sell for commercial advantage or private financial gain, the live performance with the knowledge that the live performance has been recorded or fixed without the consent of the owner of the live performance. The provisions of this item (2) shall not apply to reproduction in the home for private use and with no purpose of otherwise capitalizing commercially on the reproduction.
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #24 on: January 21, 2005, 12:57:15 PM »
West Virginia:

http://law.justia.com/westvirginia/codes/61/wvc61-3-50.html

Quote
§61-3-50. Unauthorized transferral of recorded sounds; sale and possession; penalties; civil action; definition.
[...]
No person shall knowingly and willfully for commercial advantage or private financial gain offer for sale, sell, rent, transport, cause the sale, resale, rental or transportation of or possess for one or more of these purposes a recording of a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance has been recorded or fixed without the consent of the owner.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:07:07 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #25 on: January 21, 2005, 12:59:22 PM »
Virginia:

http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+59.1-41.2

Quote
§ 59.1-41.2. Recording of live concerts or recorded sounds and distribution, etc., of such recordings unlawful in certain circumstances.

It shall be unlawful for any person to:

1. Knowingly transfer or cause to be transferred, directly or indirectly by any means, any sounds at a live concert or any sounds recorded on a phonograph record, disc, wire, tape, film, videocassette, or other article now known or later developed on which sounds are recorded, with the intent to sell, rent or cause to be sold or rented, or to be used for profit through public performance, such article on which sounds are so transferred, without consent of the owner
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #26 on: January 21, 2005, 01:16:20 PM »
Florida:

http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=CH0540/Sec11.HTM

Quote
(2)(a)  It is unlawful:

[...]

3.  Knowingly and willfully and without the consent of the performer, to transfer to or cause to be transferred to any phonograph record, disk, wire, tape, film, or other article any performance, whether live before an audience or transmitted by wire or through the air by radio or television, with the intent to sell, or cause to be sold, or to use or cause to be used for profit through public performance or to be used to promote the sale of any product or such article onto which such performance is so transferred.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:08:26 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #27 on: January 21, 2005, 01:20:33 PM »
Alabama:

http://www.legislature.state.al.us/CodeofAlabama/1975/13A-8-81.htm

Quote
Section 13A-8-81
Transfer, manufacture, distribution, etc., of certain sounds without consent prohibited; applicability; penalties; recording rights; evidence of performer's consent.

(a) It shall be a felony for any person to:

[...]

(2) Knowingly transfer or cause to be transferred, directly or indirectly, by any means, onto any phonograph record, disc, wire, tape, film, videocassette or other article now known or later developed, any live performance, for commercial advantage or private financial gain, without the consent of the owner; or

(3) Manufacture, distribute, transport or wholesale any article with the knowledge that the sounds or performances are so transferred without consent of the owner.

(b) The provisions of this section shall not apply to any person engaged in radio or television broadcasting who transfers, or causes to be transferred, any such sounds other than from the sound track of a motion picture intended for, or in connection with broadcast or telecast transmission or related uses, or for archival purposes.
I'd be careful about point (3) - it seems to imply that intent to sell is not needed, just to distribute.
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #28 on: January 21, 2005, 03:54:09 PM »
Mississippi:

http://www.mscode.com/free/statutes/97/023/0087.htm

Quote
SEC. 97-23-87. Unauthorized copying or sale of recordings.

[...]
(2)
[...]
(b) Any person who records, masters or causes to be recorded or mastered on any recorded article or device with the intent to sell, market or lease for commercial advantage or private financial gain, the sounds or images of a live performance, with the knowledge that the sounds or images so recorded have been recorded or mastered without the consent of the owner of the sounds of the live performance, is guilty of a felony
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #29 on: January 21, 2005, 03:59:12 PM »
Louisiana:

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78370

Quote
§223.5.  Recording of performances without consent prohibited

Any person who, without the consent of the owner and for commercial gain, knowingly transfers or causes to be transferred to any article, or sells, distributes, circulates, or causes to be sold, distributed, or circulated, directly or indirectly, or possesses for such purposes, a recording of any performance whether live before an audience or transmitted by wire or through the air by radio or television with intent to sell or cause to be sold or used to promote the sale of any article or product within the state of Louisiana shall be guilty of a criminal offense and punished as provided in R.S. 14:223.3. 
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:10:07 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #30 on: January 21, 2005, 04:11:31 PM »
Arkansas:

long link

Quote
   5-37-510. Unauthorized copying or sale of recordings.

[...]

(b)  It is unlawful for any person for commercial advantage or private financial gain knowingly to:

(1)  Transfer or cause to be transferred any sound recorded on a phonograph record, disc, wire, tape, film, or other article on which sounds are recorded, or any live performance, onto any recording without the consent of the owner; or

(2)  Sell, distribute, circulate, offer for sale, distribution, or circulation, possess for the purpose of sale, distribution, or circulation, cause to be sold, distributed, or circulated, offered for sale, distribution, or circulation, or possessed for sale, distribution, or circulation, any recording on which sounds or a performance have been transferred, knowing it to have been made without the consent of the owner.
[...]
(d)  This section does not apply to any person who transfers or causes to be transferred any such sounds or images:

(6)  Solely for the personal use of the person transferring or causing the transfer if the person transferring or causing the transfer has no intention to evade the provisions or intent of this section, provided that proof of intent shall be an element of the offense.

So apparently, if you accidentally tape something in Arkansas, it's not illegal...but if you intended to, you might have a problem.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:12:38 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2005, 04:15:03 PM »
Missouri:

http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5700000226.HTM

Quote
Unauthorized recording for profit prohibited.

570.226. No person shall, without the consent of the owner, transfer or cause to be transferred to any phonograph record, disc, wire, tape, film, videocassette, or other article or medium now known or later developed on which sounds or images are recorded or otherwise stored, any performance whether live before an audience or transmitted by wire or through the air by radio or television, with the intent to sell or cause to be sold for profit.
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2005, 04:30:42 PM »
North Dakota:

http://www.legis.nd.gov/cencode/t47c211.pdf

Quote
CHAPTER 47-21.1
SOUND RECORDINGS
[...]
47-21.1-02. Unauthorized transfer of recorded sound or the recording of any
performance prohibited. It is hereby declared unlawful for any person to knowingly:
[...]
2.
And without the consent of the performer, transfer to or cause to be transferred to
any phonograph record, disc, wire, tape, film, or other article, any performance,
whether live before an audience or transmitted by wire or through the air by radio or
television, with the intent to sell or cause to be sold for profit or used to promote the
sale of any product, such article onto which such performance is so transferred.
[...]
4.
Or with reasonable grounds to know, sell or resell, distribute or possess for such
purposes, any phonograph record, disc, wire, tape, film, or other article embodying
any performance, whether live before an audience, or transmitted by wire or through
the air by radio or television, recorded without the consent of the performer.

It's not clear if "distribute" in point 4 refers to commercial gain or not.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:13:49 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2005, 07:28:07 PM »
Kansas:

http://www.kslegislature.org/legsrv-statutes/getStatuteFile.do?number=/21-3748.html

Quote
       21-3748.   Piracy of recordings. (a) Piracy of recordings is knowingly, and without the consent of the owner, duplicating or causing to be duplicated any sounds recorded on a phonograph record, disc, wire, tape, film or other article on which sounds are recorded, or recording or causing to be recorded any live performance, with the intent to sell, rent or cause to be sold or rented, any such duplicated sounds or any such recorded performance, or to give away such duplicated sounds or recorded performance as part of a promotion for any product or service.
[...]
      (c)   This section shall not apply to:
[...]
      (2)   any person who duplicates such sounds or such performance, for personal use, and without compensation for such duplication
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2005, 07:31:22 PM »
Oklahoma:

http://oklegal.onenet.net/oklegal-cgi/get_statute?99/Title.21/21-1978.html

Quote
§21-1978.
   
   A. It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly and without the
   written consent of the owner, transfer or cause to be transferred to
   any article or sound recording or otherwise reproduce for sale, any
   performance, whether live before an audience or transmitted by wire or
   through the air by radio or television, with the intent to sell or
   cause to be sold for profit or used to promote the sale of any article
   or product.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2005, 10:52:09 AM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #35 on: January 22, 2005, 10:07:01 AM »
New Mexico:

http://law.justia.com/newmexico/codes/nmrc/jd_30-16b-5-c853.html

Quote
30-16B-5. Unauthorized recording of live performances; penalties.

A.     It is unlawful for any person, for commercial advantage or private financial gain to advertise, offer for sale, sell, rent, transport, cause the sale, resale, rental or transportation of or possess for one or more of these purposes a recording of a live performance that has been recorded or fixed without the consent of the owner.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:14:36 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #36 on: January 22, 2005, 10:41:45 AM »
Wyoming:

http://legisweb.state.wy.us/statutes/statutes.aspx?file=titles/Title40/T40CH13.htm

Quote
40‑13‑202.  Prohibited acts.

(a)  No person shall:
[...]
(ii)  Knowingly and without the consent of the performer or his agent, transfer to or cause to be transferred to any phonograph record, disc, wire, tape, film or other article, any performance, whether live before an audience or transmitted by wire or through the air by radio or television, with intent to sell or to cause to be sold for profit or used to promote the sale of any product, the article on which the performance is transferred.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:15:39 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #37 on: January 22, 2005, 10:49:14 AM »
Montana:

http://data.opi.state.mt.us/bills/mca/30/13/30-13-142.htm

Quote
     30-13-142. Unauthorized manufacture of sound recordings prohibited.
[...]
     (2) No person may knowingly and without the consent of the performer transfer or cause to be transferred to any sound recording any performance, whether live before an audience or transmitted by wire or through the air by radio or television, with the intent to sell or cause to be sold for profit or to be used to promote the sale of any product such sound recording onto which such performance is so transferred.
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #38 on: January 22, 2005, 11:33:15 AM »
Arizona:

http://www.azleg.state.az.us/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/13/03705.htm&Title=13&DocType=ARS

Quote
13-3705. Unlawful copying or sale of sounds or images from recording devices; true name and address of articles; definitions; classification

A. A person commits unlawful copying or sale of sounds or images from recording devices by knowingly:
[...]
5. Transferring or causing to be transferred to an article any performance, whether live before an audience or transmitted by wire or through the air by radio or television without the consent of the owner and with the intent to obtain commercial advantage or personal financial gain.
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #39 on: January 22, 2005, 11:40:42 AM »
Oregon:

http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/164.html (long page, almost all the way at the bottom)

Quote
      164.869 Unlawful recording of a live performance. (1) A person commits unlawful recording of a live performance if the person:

      (a)(A) Advertises or offers for sale, sells, rents, transports, or causes the sale, resale, rental or transportation of, or possesses for one or more of these purposes, a recording containing sounds of a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance has been recorded or fixed without the consent of the owner; or

      (B) With the intent to sell, records or fixes, or causes to be recorded or fixed on a recording, a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance has been recorded or fixed without the consent of the owner; and

      (b) Possesses five or more duplicate copies or 20 or more individual copies of recordings produced without consent of the owner or performer and the recordings are intended for sale or distribution in violation of this section.
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #40 on: January 22, 2005, 11:44:45 AM »
Washington:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=19.25.030

Quote
RCW 19.25.030
Use of recording of live performance without consent of owner unlawful -- Fine and penalty.

(1) A person commits an offense if the person:

     (a) For commercial advantage or private financial gain advertises, offers for sale, sells, rents, transports, causes the sale, resale, rental, or transportation of or possesses for one or more of these purposes a recording of a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance has been recorded or fixed without the consent of the owner; or
« Last Edit: December 06, 2008, 10:18:54 PM by greenone »
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #41 on: January 22, 2005, 01:04:00 PM »
A huge thanks for collecting this info.

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #42 on: March 20, 2005, 09:07:42 AM »
As of 2/14/05 Massachusetts has seriously increased the penalty for being caught:

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/266-143b.htm
Quote
Chapter 266: Section 143B Unauthorized reproduction and sale of live performances

[ Text of section effective until February 14, 2005. For text effective February 14, 2005, see below.]

  Section 143B. Whoever for commercial advantage or private financial gain records or causes to be recorded a live performance with knowledge that such recording is without the consent of the owner, or advertises, sells, rents, transports or causes to be advertised, sold, rented or transported, or possesses for any of such purposes, a recording of a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance was recorded without the consent of the owner, shall be punished as provided in section one hundred and forty-three D.

[ Text of section as amended by 2004, 395, Sec. 3 effective February 14, 2005. For text effective until February 14, 2005, see above.]

  Section 143B. Whoever for commercial advantage or private financial gain records or causes to be recorded a live performance with knowledge that such recording is without the consent of the owner, or advertises, sells, rents, transports or causes to be advertised, sold, rented or transported, or possesses for any of such purposes, a recording of a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance was recorded without the consent of the owner, shall be punished as provided in section 143E.


http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/266-143e.htm
Quote
Chapter 266: Section 143E Forfeitures or destruction of unauthorized recordings upon conviction

[ Text of section effective until February 14, 2005. For text effective February 14, 2005, see below.]

  Section 143E. Upon conviction of a person for a violation of sections one hundred and forty-three to one hundred and forty-three D, inclusive, the court may order the forfeiture, destruction, or other disposition of all recordings on which the conviction is based and all implements, devices and equipment used or intended to be used in the manufacture of the recordings on which the conviction is based; provided, however, that such order shall be stayed pending any appeal.

[ Text of section as amended by 2004, 395, Sec. 5 effective February 14, 2005. For text effective until February 14, 2005, see above.]

  Section 143E. Whoever violates any provision of section 143A to section 143C, inclusive, shall be punished:

  (i) by imprisonment for not more than 1 year in the house of correction or by a fine of not more than $25,000, or by both such fine and imprisonment;

  (ii) by imprisonment in the house of correction for not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $100,000, or by both such fine and imprisonment if the offense involves less than 1,000 but not less than 100 unlawful sound recordings or less the 65 but not less than 7 unlawful audio visual recordings; or

  (iii) by imprisonment in state prison for not more than 5 years or by a fine of not more than $250,000, or by both such fine and imprisonment if the offense involves not less than 1,000 unlawful sound recordings or not less than 65 unlawful audio visual recordings.

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2005, 07:36:08 AM »
United Kingdom:

I've been wondering about this for a long time, and asked a lawyer friend of mine to look into it for me:

Quote
As far as covert recording of shows goes, as far as I know this is not
a criminal offence - the police would therefore be reluctant to get
involved unless there was a serious breach of the peace, as they would
consider this to be a purely civil matter..

Apart from being ejected from the premises, I don't believe there is
any power for venues to seize recording equipment as technically this
would constitute theft on their part ie. an intention to permanently
deprive you of your property. Although they would probably request you
to erase the recorded material in front of them, in order to convince
them not to take legal action against you in the civil courts..

Provided you do this, then no further action should be taken against
you. Then again, you record shows so surreptitiously I can't imagine
you ever getting caught in the first place..

I know theres no articles specified, but this is as good as I've got so far!
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2005, 09:42:16 AM »
  Section 143B. Whoever for commercial advantage or private financial gain records or causes to be recorded a live performance with knowledge that such recording is without the consent of the owner, or advertises, sells, rents, transports or causes to be advertised, sold, rented or transported, or possesses for any of such purposes, a recording of a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance was recorded without the consent of the owner, shall be punished as provided in section one hundred and forty-three D.

OK, wouldn't there be a loop-hole that we do not do this for commercial or private financial gain? I"m no lawyer, but to me there is plenty of proof that I and the majority of us here don't do it for money. Just curious.

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Offline dmbfan36_23

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2005, 11:33:14 AM »
OK, wouldn't there be a loop-hole that we do not do this for commercial or private financial gain? I"m no lawyer, but to me there is plenty of proof that I and the majority of us here don't do it for money. Just curious.

I thought that too, until I read the very last sentence, the key being the "OR":

  or possesses for any of such purposes, a recording of a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance was recorded without the consent of the owner, shall be punished as provided in section 143E.

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2005, 11:50:33 AM »
I thought that too, until I read the very last sentence, the key being the "OR":

  or possesses for any of such purposes, a recording of a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance was recorded without the consent of the owner, shall be punished as provided in section 143E.

Continue to read that
Quote
or posses for ANY OF SUCH PURPOSES
Meaning the purposes of commercial or private financial gain???
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Offline dmbfan36_23

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2005, 11:55:49 AM »
Whoooooops... I think you're right.. *phew*...  ok stealth taping is back on in MA! ;-)

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2005, 10:59:53 PM »
Florida:

another long one

Quote
(2)(a)  It is unlawful:

[...]

3.  Knowingly and willfully and without the consent of the performer, to transfer to or cause to be transferred to any phonograph record, disk, wire, tape, film, or other article any performance, whether live before an audience or transmitted by wire or through the air by radio or television, with the intent to sell, or cause to be sold, or to use or cause to be used for profit through public performance or to be used to promote the sale of any product or such article onto which such performance is so transferred.

i'm no lawer, but, as long as your tape isn't up for sale(by you or anyone else), there should be no problems.

doesn't mean there, or anywere else for that matter, won't try to squeeze ya.

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #49 on: April 14, 2005, 11:18:44 AM »
i'm no lawer, but, as long as your tape isn't up for sale(by you or anyone else), there should be no problems.

doesn't mean there, or anywere else for that matter, won't try to squeeze ya.
Exactly - that's the impression I get from the majority of the statutes posted here. There are very few states that make the actual act of recording, or possessing, or trading a recording illegal; most of them require intent to profit from the recording.
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #50 on: April 14, 2005, 05:51:27 PM »
What about recording a cover song for an album? (ie: if I record a cover song with my guitar, burn it to CD as part of an album, then sell it on a website) Do I need to get permission from the songwriter? or just acknowledge the copyrights in the liner notes? or ?? Has anyone ever done/researched this?
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #51 on: April 15, 2005, 06:14:36 PM »
i'm no lawer, but, as long as your tape isn't up for sale(by you or anyone else), there should be no problems.

doesn't mean there, or anywere else for that matter, won't try to squeeze ya.
Exactly - that's the impression I get from the majority of the statutes posted here. There are very few states that make the actual act of recording, or possessing, or trading a recording illegal; most of them require intent to profit from the recording.

Here's the problem though.  If a law criminalizes recording for profit and johnny law sees you recording, he's not going to wait 'till you're done and ask you to prove that you were, in fact, recording for profit so he can charge you under the statute.  Instead, he's going to presume you are recording for profit and charge you under the statute then and there.  After being charged, you have the dubious task of proving to the prosecutor/court/etc. that you were not recording for profit and thus not in violation of the statute.  Once you hire a lawyer to defend you, appear in court, etc. you'll likely wish that you were recording for profit to pay the bills.

S

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2005, 03:14:27 PM »
i'm no lawer, but, as long as your tape isn't up for sale(by you or anyone else), there should be no problems.

doesn't mean there, or anywere else for that matter, won't try to squeeze ya.
Exactly - that's the impression I get from the majority of the statutes posted here. There are very few states that make the actual act of recording, or possessing, or trading a recording illegal; most of them require intent to profit from the recording.

Here's the problem though.  If a law criminalizes recording for profit and johnny law sees you recording, he's not going to wait 'till you're done and ask you to prove that you were, in fact, recording for profit so he can charge you under the statute.  Instead, he's going to presume you are recording for profit and charge you under the statute then and there.  After being charged, you have the dubious task of proving to the prosecutor/court/etc. that you were not recording for profit and thus not in violation of the statute.  Once you hire a lawyer to defend you, appear in court, etc. you'll likely wish that you were recording for profit to pay the bills.

S

good point.    but "inosent until prooven guilty" should be able to be defended by any public defender, no problems.  still waists your time and all.
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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2005, 11:33:14 AM »
The prosecutor would have the burden of proof to prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Of course -- successful prosecution would be all-but-impossible if a requisite element of the crime could not be proved.  However, the issue I'm raising isn't a conviction under the statutes/ordinances/regulations, but rather the hassle and expense that would be involved with "beating" such a conviction. 

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2006, 11:10:30 PM »
(1) fixes the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance in a copy or phonorecord, or reproduces copies or phonorecords of such a performance from an unauthorized fixation

Is there anyone in here that can translate Lawyerese?

Would my master be considered fixing the sounds or sounds of a live musical performance in a copy or phonorecord?

Phonorecord

A term used in legal definitions to refer to physical recordings of songs, such as vinyl LPs, cassette tapes, and compact discs.

Technically, a material object in which sounds are fixed by any method now known or later developed, and from which the sounds can be perceived, reproduced, or communicated, either directly or with the aid of a machine or device (U.S. Copyright Act of 1976, Section 101).

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #55 on: September 05, 2006, 05:13:01 PM »
Colorado now has the following:

Quote
18-4-604.3. Unlawful recording of a live performance.
Statute text

(1) A person who, without the consent of the owner of the right to record a live performance, records or causes to be recorded the live performance on a phonograph record, compact disc, video disc, wire, tape, film, or other article on which a live performance is recorded with the intent to sell the article on which the live performance is recorded or to cause the same to be sold for profit or to be used to promote the sale of any product commits unlawful recording of a live performance.

(2) In the absence of a written agreement or law to the contrary, the performer or performers of a live performance are presumed to own the rights to record the live performance.

(3) For purposes of this section, a person who is authorized to maintain custody and control of business records that reflect whether the owner of the live performance consented to having the live performance recorded is a competent witness in a proceeding regarding the issue of consent.

(4) Unlawful recording of a live performance is a class 1 misdemeanor.

(5) As used in this section, "live performance" means a recitation, rendering, or playing of a series of images, musical, spoken, or other sounds, or a combination of images and sounds, in an audible sequence.
History

Source: L. 2005: Entire section added, p. 202, § 2, effective July 1.
Annotations

Editor's note: Section 3 of chapter 50, Session Laws of Colorado 2005, provides that the act enacting this section applies to offenses committed on or after July 1, 2005.

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2006, 04:41:36 PM »
18-4-604.3.1 is very poorly worded. If you look closely it doesn't speak on the intent to sell the recording, but intent to sell the device the performance is recorded upon.  :P
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Offline NOTHINGFAN

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #57 on: July 26, 2008, 02:45:03 PM »
Here's Pennsylvania's statute:

http://members.aol.com/StatutesP4/18PA4116.html

Quote
§ 4116. Copying; recording devices.
[...]
      (d.1) Manufacture, sale or rental of a recording of a live performance without consent of the owner.--
         1. It shall be unlawful for any person to knowingly manufacture, transport, sell, resell, rent, advertise or offer for sale, resale or rental or cause the manufacture, sale, resale or rental or possess for such purpose or purposes any recording of a live performance with the knowledge that the live performance has been recorded without the consent of the owner.

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Offline Paul

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #58 on: September 15, 2022, 12:06:24 AM »
The prosecutor would have the burden of proof to prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Of course -- successful prosecution would be all-but-impossible if a requisite element of the crime could not be proved.  However, the issue I'm raising isn't a conviction under the statutes/ordinances/regulations, but rather the hassle and expense that would be involved with "beating" such a conviction. 
one thing to keep in mind...

copyright is a civil case, not a criminal prosecution.

Civil cases do not require "guilt beyond reasonable doubt". They are a lot easier to win a case/lawsuit. But, that said, I've been in the business of talking copyright law, being a musician & photographer. Copyright claims are not cut & dry.

In photography, the photographer is the copyright holder, the moment he presses the button to release the shutter & captures the image. The only exceptions are, if the photographer was on paid assignment as an employee of a company, taking photos for them. Then, they belong to the employer.

Photographers can also get into trouble (copyright conflict) if they take an image of someone else's copyright work. A few years back, the issue of tattoos on models, where the tattoo is someone else's copyrighted work. IIRC, a famous case was Mike Tyson's facial tattoos, where they were unique & the artist was well known.

So, that begs one to ask, is the recorder/taper the copyright holder, as is the photographer? But, is he then capturing a copyrighted work?

Yes, similarly, it works the same.

Now, to the brass tacks.

To claim a copyright. or trademark infringement, you have to have "damages". You are suing for said damages & what you consider fair compensation, based on either/or, monetary loss to you, or monetary gain by the infringer.

How much money does (in this case) the band lose, by simply you recording them? How much money did you gain? Chances are, most here are not recording to sell, but, let's say that they thought some money was being made by you, or from you.

I knew a guy, who took a picture. It was a portrait. Funny enough, he was watching a blockbuster movie, & saw his portrait in the movie. He showed a few people & people encouraged him, that, he was the copyright holder, & the movie used the image w/o his permission & that the movie obviously made millions of dollars.

Sounds like he has a case & a good one. Likely a big payoff... until, all the explorations of copyright law & damages came into play. He had to prove damages. It didn't hurt his finances, nor his reputation, but, there was the idea of being used in a production for profit medium.

Then, the questions came up, how integral to the movies success was his particular image? What percentage of the movie did the image occupy? How much money was the particular image responsible for contributing to the profits?

Or was in inconsequential?

Ended up, after the lawyer explained all that to him, he realized that he really didn't have much of a case. He could have went to court to sue the studio, but it would have cost him thousands of dollars & probably, the outcome would have been that either he lost, or, the studio would have to go back & remove the frames that included his image.

The image was displayed for about 3-5 seconds & was among a table & wall of about 25 other pictures. It was never shown close-up, nor displayed as of any importance.

So, being a musician, having someone record one of your shows, & maybe trading it to friends, or keeping it to him/herself, there's going to be all that damages thing to prove. They might shell out thousands of dollars & the best they might get, is a copy of the recording from you... which, you'd probably give them if they wanted it anyway.

Now, think of the thousands of people recording your shows...
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Offline fanofjam

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #59 on: September 16, 2022, 09:39:31 AM »
The prosecutor would have the burden of proof to prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Of course -- successful prosecution would be all-but-impossible if a requisite element of the crime could not be proved.  However, the issue I'm raising isn't a conviction under the statutes/ordinances/regulations, but rather the hassle and expense that would be involved with "beating" such a conviction. 
one thing to keep in mind...

copyright is a civil case, not a criminal prosecution.

Civil cases do not require "guilt beyond reasonable doubt". They are a lot easier to win a case/lawsuit. But, that said, I've been in the business of talking copyright law, being a musician & photographer. Copyright claims are not cut & dry.

......

So, being a musician, having someone record one of your shows, & maybe trading it to friends, or keeping it to him/herself, there's going to be all that damages thing to prove. They might shell out thousands of dollars & the best they might get, is a copy of the recording from you... which, you'd probably give them if they wanted it anyway.

Now, think of the thousands of people recording your shows...

The moral of that story is don't listen to your friends.  Everyone seems to break life down into financial terms all the time.  Sue McDonalds if you burn yourself on a hot cup of coffee.  Sue a homeowner because you tripped over something on his property.   I believe in personal accountability so I've been over that bullshit forever.  Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. 

With respect to recording, I've never taken money for my recordings even when its been offered and never will.  Once in a while, I've accepted a ticket in exchange for recording but more often than not I've rejected that as well because I like supporting a band on the road.  Over the years, a few bands have sold my recordings on theie website to make a few bucks.  My reward is the honor that they appreciate my work enough to do so.  That said, I realize some people have studios and record for a living...I'm not passing judgement on them...I expect to be paid when I work my given profession.  But taping is my passion and hobby.  Monetizing it runs counter to my purpose for doing it.  I know this adds nothing to the strict legal discussion, but it's germane to the motivations I (and I think most of us here on ts.com) have for taping.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2022, 09:45:48 AM by fanofjam »

Offline ero3030

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #60 on: November 22, 2022, 07:25:03 AM »
The prosecutor would have the burden of proof to prove guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

Of course -- successful prosecution would be all-but-impossible if a requisite element of the crime could not be proved.  However, the issue I'm raising isn't a conviction under the statutes/ordinances/regulations, but rather the hassle and expense that would be involved with "beating" such a conviction. 
one thing to keep in mind...

copyright is a civil case, not a criminal prosecution.

Civil cases do not require "guilt beyond reasonable doubt". They are a lot easier to win a case/lawsuit. But, that said, I've been in the business of talking copyright law, being a musician & photographer. Copyright claims are not cut & dry.

......

So, being a musician, having someone record one of your shows, & maybe trading it to friends, or keeping it to him/herself, there's going to be all that damages thing to prove. They might shell out thousands of dollars & the best they might get, is a copy of the recording from you... which, you'd probably give them if they wanted it anyway.

Now, think of the thousands of people recording your shows...

The moral of that story is don't listen to your friends.  Everyone seems to break life down into financial terms all the time.  Sue McDonalds if you burn yourself on a hot cup of coffee.  Sue a homeowner because you tripped over something on his property.   I believe in personal accountability so I've been over that bullshit forever.  Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. 

With respect to recording, I've never taken money for my recordings even when its been offered and never will.  Once in a while, I've accepted a ticket in exchange for recording but more often than not I've rejected that as well because I like supporting a band on the road.  Over the years, a few bands have sold my recordings on theie website to make a few bucks.  My reward is the honor that they appreciate my work enough to do so.  That said, I realize some people have studios and record for a living...I'm not passing judgement on them...I expect to be paid when I work my given profession.  But taping is my passion and hobby.  Monetizing it runs counter to my purpose for doing it.  I know this adds nothing to the strict legal discussion, but it's germane to the motivations I (and I think most of us here on ts.com) have for taping.
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Offline moondust.and.solitude

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2022, 09:56:41 AM »
18-4-604.3.1 is very poorly worded. If you look closely it doesn't speak on the intent to sell the recording, but intent to sell the device the performance is recorded upon.  :P

I know this is an old topic, but seeing that it has been recently resurrected, I'm adding a correction to your comment. You changed the wording from "article" to "device", which is incorrect.  The law is written as "to sell the article on which the live performance is recorded", meaning tape/CDR or some other sort of media.
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Offline morst

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2023, 04:42:15 AM »
BUMP on the old thread...


How long are copyrights on ROIOs?
70 years?



At some point, mostly after I’m long gone, everything I recorded will cease to be subject to intellectual property monetization considerations.


Hm.
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Offline Scooter123

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #63 on: January 15, 2024, 09:40:14 AM »
Copyrights belong to the artist not the person that captured the recording in my judgment.
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Offline morst

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #64 on: January 15, 2024, 05:49:35 PM »
Copyrights belong to the artist not the person that captured the recording in my judgment.
the underlying composition is not the property of the recordist, but I think a "sound recording" is. Copyright office says that there is not an automatic right to public display however.

"A sound recording is a series of musical, spoken, or other sounds fixed in a recording medium, such as a CD or digital file, called a “phonorecord.” Sound recordings can be created by the recording’s performer, the producer, or others. Note that there is no public display right for sound recordings and the public performance right is limited to “digital audio transmissions,” for example, digital streaming."
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Offline Scooter123

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Re: Legal info on recording
« Reply #65 on: January 16, 2024, 06:47:36 PM »
There is a difference between publishing rights, which are typically owned by the artist for writing a song, the distribution of which without consent would be a civil infraction subjecting anyone using the song without consent to civil liability and copyright rights, usually once it has been fixed in a form that can be copied, such as being written down (sheet music) or recorded in a physical form.  It is hard for me to envision how any taper making a recording without the consent of the artist would possess either publishing or copyright rights. 

All that said, to me its really like how many angels can dance on the end of a pin.  Unless the taper publicly distributed the tape or sold it, the artist (publishing rights) or the record label (copyright rights) really wouldn't care. 
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