Topic: Ambisonic mics --- has anyone here recorded any shows?

[live2496]

Has anyone got any recordings recorded with a soundfield or the core sound mic?

I am putting together an full-sphere decoding setup and would like to hear them. I would be interested in the raw format (A-format?) or b-format. Thanks!

Gordon

[Nick's Picks]

Hi Gordon...
i've never used the raw B format from the soundfield when I had one.  Try Focker ?

[F0CKER]

Has anyone got any recordings recorded with a soundfield or the core sound mic?

I am putting together an full-sphere decoding setup and would like to hear them. I would be interested in the raw format (A-format?) or b-format. Thanks!

Gordon

Gordon I'ev got lots of B Format recordings saved....fromt he Soundfield 350.  Let me know what you'd like and I can send it your way.  I have about 15 complete B Format recordings saved....and a shitload of partial recordings.

[Patrick]

Jim Pollock has circulated hundreds of his B-format recordings.  They're all over archive.org 

[Gutbucket]

Has anyone got any recordings recorded with a soundfield or the core sound mic?

I am putting together an full-sphere decoding setup and would like to hear them. I would be interested in the raw format (A-format?) or b-format. Thanks!

Gordon

I've always wanted to hear an ambisonic playback setup, can I come over?

I've come across various b-format material on the web from various ambisonic sites, some of it soundfield sourced, some home brewed Nimbus-rig type recordings and some synthesized.  The synthesized stuff also included some higher order encodes.  Never downloaded any of it since I couldn't do anything with it, but I may be able to find some links if you like.

[live2496]

Has anyone got any recordings recorded with a soundfield or the core sound mic?

I am putting together an full-sphere decoding setup and would like to hear them. I would be interested in the raw format (A-format?) or b-format. Thanks!

Gordon

Gordon I'ev got lots of B Format recordings saved....fromt he Soundfield 350.  Let me know what you'd like and I can send it your way.  I have about 15 complete B Format recordings saved....and a shitload of partial recordings.

P.M. me with the names of the bands you have. I would sure like to get some shows in B-format.

[live2496]

I've always wanted to hear an ambisonic playback setup, can I come over?

I've come across various b-format material on the web from various ambisonic sites, some of it soundfield sourced, some home brewed Nimbus-rig type recordings and some synthesized.  The synthesized stuff also included some higher order encodes.  Never downloaded any of it since I couldn't do anything with it, but I may be able to find some links if you like.

You would be welcome to listen of course. Still there are a few pieces to put in place.

Here's what's going to be in this setup. Four powered/bi-amped Yamaha HS50M's. An HS10W subwoofer. Some piece of software for decoding. An RME multiface to provide a line level output to the speakers. There won't be height information with four speakers, but it should give me a flat listening plane.

I have been studying ambisonics for less than two years, so kind of new at it.
There have been some new developments on the [sursound] list that will interest the forum. They plan to use VLC (www.videolan.org's media player) to decode b-format to surround sound for anyone with a 5.1 home entertainment system. Fons Adriaenson, the guy who wrote AmbDec is going to provide the decoding piece for this. Details are sketchy. Nothing is set in stone yet, but the basic idea is there.

One of the setbacks to ambisonics, of course is very few people have listening setups. This is an attempt to deliver b-format files to people's homes. It's a compromise, of course, but it's what's needed to jump start the technology. Content should drive the technology, but the hardware is too complicated and expensive and so no one wants files in this format. So it's Catch-22.

[boojum]

As ancient as I am I can remember the grumbling when stereo came in: two of everything.  Granted, stereo was a quantum leap forward.  Most in-home receivers today are set up for 5.1, which means that it should be able to hand AS OK: just feed four channels.  The decoder is the key.  Does not AS offer one?  There has to be some reasonable way to get that sound into four or 5 or 5.1 channels.  Otherwise, as you intimate, what's the point? 

On another board a fellow has said that SF, and I guess AS, make the best Blumlein pairs as the angles are always a perfect 90 degrees.  As an emulation of standard stereo setups it should be great.  I will have enough grief making the Schoeps DMS setup work.

Cheers

[live2496]

I will have enough grief making the Schoeps DMS setup work.

So, what plans do you have to handle the recording and playback of this? ---Just curious.

[fotoralf.be]

I will have enough grief making the Schoeps DMS setup work.

You'll see it's easier than you think. I'm using it with a Behringer LD and two cheap SD cardiods for outside atmospheres and soundscapes and it works nicely.

Ralf

[Kewl]

I am putting together an full-sphere decoding setup and would like to hear them. I would be interested in the raw format (A-format?) or b-format. Thanks!

There are numerous B-Format recordings from different Soundfield models and the TetraMic on Ambisonia.
http://www.ambisonia.com/

There's also electronic music mixed with analog and digital B-Format panners/encoders on Ambisonia.

- Daniel

[live2496]

There are numerous B-Format recordings from different Soundfield models and the TetraMic on Ambisonia.
http://www.ambisonia.com/

There's also electronic music mixed with analog and digital B-Format panners/encoders on Ambisonia.

- Daniel

Thanks Daniel. Yes, I am aware of ambisonia. (Actually I have been working with Etienne a bit on a tool for his site.)
That is a good source of samples ready to download in b-format. I was hoping to get some longer shows here and various genres for additional listening at home.

[fotoralf.be]

I was hoping to get some longer shows here and various genres for additional listening at home.

Not exactly ambisonics but probably interesting nonetheless: Dutch Concertzender is streaming surround in high quality (386 kbps) on the web with all kinds of music, including 'historic' quadraphonic material. I listen to their program via a 4-speaker setup somewhat similar to yours.

http://www.concertzender.eu/sr.php

Ralf

[Gutbucket]

Project Verdi (in german, here's the Google english translation) has some interesting info on comparing multiple surround techniques all simultaneously recorded for orchestra and chorus back in '02.  The download page has AC3 encoded samples of multiple 5.0 techniques as well as a link to the Soundfield B-format (without height) files.  The zipped B-format files required contacting the webmaster for download.

Not B-format, but I've had fun recently playing with 4 channel surround recording and the results are quite promising.  I don't have a 4-track recorder so all recordings are made to two R-09's which actually keep sync amazingly well.  I'm basically adding two additional channels to my primary existing L/R stereo recording so I can always default to stereo. The additional two tracks are either a Ls/Rs pair or a center/back pair. Playback is through the analog inputs to a 7.1 receiver using 4 or 5 of the amplifier channels and good quality but unmatched speakers.  L/R+Ls/Rs playback ignores the center speaker and uses two rear speakers.  The L/R+C/B instead uses the center speaker and a single central rear, or splits the mono rear signal to two rear speakers which used all 5 speakers and produces a more diffuse an enveloping rear.  I'd like to play with decorrelating the the split mono signal between the rears.

The recordings are either 4 omnis (DPA 4060's) spaced in a square for L/R+Ls/Rs, closer spaced baffled omnis for L/R+C/B, or a Blumlein pair for L/R + spaced omnis for LS,Rs.

[Kewl]

Project Verdi (in german, here's the Google english translation) has some interesting info on comparing multiple surround techniques all simultaneously recorded for orchestra and chorus back in '02.

There's actually an English version here http://www.stud.tu-ilmenau.de/~proverdi/indexen.html

- Daniel

[live2496]

Not exactly ambisonics but probably interesting nonetheless: Dutch Concertzender is streaming surround in high quality (386 kbps) on the web with all kinds of music, including 'historic' quadraphonic material. I listen to their program via a 4-speaker setup somewhat similar to yours.

http://www.concertzender.eu/sr.php

Ralf

This is nice sound quality. When I click on the link it plays windows media player 9 in an applet. It seems to render down to stereo for my laptops default sound device. I'm not sure how to configure it otherwise. Maybe if I had a surround sound capable soundcard it would act differently (?)
 

[Gutbucket]

There's actually an English version here http://www.stud.tu-ilmenau.de/~proverdi/indexen.html

- Daniel

^^
Well, that's a bit more accurate. Thanks.

Ralf, that Concertzender stream seems interesting.  Live2496, it will downmix to 2 channel stereo unless you have a multichannel output soundcard.  I need to look for a USB one for my laptop with that capability since the little one I'm using can only pass surround as a DTS or AC3 encoded SPDIF stream.

[fotoralf.be]

This is nice sound quality. When I click on the link it plays windows media player 9 in an applet. It seems to render down to stereo for my laptops default sound device. I'm not sure how to configure it otherwise. Maybe if I had a surround sound capable soundcard it would act differently (?)

I suppose it would. I receive it direct (i.e. outside of the browser) under...

mms://livemedia.omroep.nl/concertzender-5channel

...with VLC-PLayer, use the E-mu 1616's DSP mixer to add the C and LFE channels to L and R, and then output the result through the 1616 as a 4-channel analog signal which can be fed directly to the discrete inputs of my surround receiver. 

Ralf

P.S.: Currently, only the Windoze version of VLC-Player decodes the Concertzender stream. The OSX and Linux versions don't.

[Nick's Picks]

I thought the proper ambesonic playback setup was a tetra speaker array setup just like the capsules
one up top (point of the pyramid) and the more around the bass.  Listener sits in the center.
no ??

[Gutbucket]

I thought the proper ambesonic playback setup was a tetra speaker array setup just like the capsules
one up top (point of the pyramid) and the more around the bass.  Listener sits in the center.
no ??

That would make sense, and is the simplest theoretically correct playback scenario for full 1st order ambisonics with height.  In my weak understanding, one of the cool things about ambisonic playback is that the system is not locked into the 'one channel for each speaker' paradigm of most every other scheme like 2 channel stereo, quad or 5.1. Depending on the capabilities of your decoder, you can use any number of symmetrically arranged speakers and the more available the better.  If discarding the 'Z' height information you'll get more of your money's worth if all the speakers you have are in the horizontal plane.  The simplest setup without height would be a square, and some decoders can adjust for a rectangle.  Michael Gerzon experimented with tetrahedral playback with 4 speakers in the very beginning, but I think he decided 4 wasn't enough and that 6 were much better, 8 better still for full ambisonics with height.  I found some great photos of one of his early tetrahedral speaker tests, with two speakers up on ladders but I can't find them now.  I thought they came from the MichaelGerzonPhotos site which has some great photos and information about the man and the early development of ambisonics. 

Here's the 1st tetrahedral ambisonic mic-

[Gutbucket]

Found just one of several lurking one on the HDD.  Notice the speaker on the ladder-

[Kewl]

I thought the proper ambesonic playback setup was a tetra speaker array setup just like the capsules

If the capsules were "directly" connected to speakers, it would be the way to go. But the capsules signals are converted to B-Format (the capsules direct signal is A-Format) which allow to feed any speaker setup.

- Daniel

[live2496]

I thought the proper ambesonic playback setup was a tetra speaker array setup just like the capsules
one up top (point of the pyramid) and the more around the bass.  Listener sits in the center.
no ??

Since the capsules are pointed toward corners of a room (so-to-speak) the audio has to be transformed into up-down, left-right, forward-backward (XYZ cartesian coordinates) from the original. It's sine and cosine arithmetic. That resulting format is called b-format.

You can listen to b-format using a decoder which adjusts the discrete channels based upon the number of speakers you have. Ideally the listener is equidistant from all speakers. Your speaker setup can be two dimensional (ie. all in the same plane). This is what I plan to do. It could double as a 5.1 system too.