Author Topic: My First Epic Fail (Read 7553 times)

suites · « **on:** August 05, 2009, 10:20:31 AM »

Well last night I was taping the Green Day show down here in Miami and ran out of battery power at 45 minutes in.

Here is the story:

I run this rig: Church Audio Cards > CA-9100 > Edirol R-09HR (16/44.1), Kingston 16g

I put in new batteries (2 x AA (Duracell copper tops) in the R-09 and 1 9v (Duracell) in the CA-9100 just before the gig. The AA were part of a 8 pack and they were the last 2....bought from walgreens within the past 2 months.

I taped Kaiser Chiefs for 35 minutes, turned off both units, starting running for Green Day and around 20 minutes in it said low battery. Then cut out at 45 minutes.

Does anyone have ideas on why this happened.

I think what I learned is that I need to get a one of those battery checkers and check them each time.

I just hope it was bad batteries, I mean I should get at least 4 hours or more under regular conditions.

I have used this rig 15 times without this problem.

Any thoughts?

Belexes · « **Reply #1 on:** August 05, 2009, 10:50:39 AM »

I have the rig you have and I get 4+ hours from fresh AA's. I use Rayovacs. Looks like you may have had some bad batteries.

Brian E. · « **Reply #2 on:** August 05, 2009, 11:46:05 AM »

my first epic fail was losing a whole Chicago Theatre Ben Folds show somehow. It just deleted on my JB3. No idea.

I was so pissed.

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #3 on:** August 05, 2009, 11:53:46 AM »

Yeah, probably dead batteries. New != good. I've had my share of new, but bad, batteries over the years.

FWIW, I used rechargeable AAs for a while, and had generally good experiences with them. It's important to have a quality charger, I found. I used one of the Maha models from ThomasDistributing, but I'm sure it's discontinued / superseded by now. Not sure which is the best these days. Might be worth a try.

bgreen · « **Reply #4 on:** August 05, 2009, 11:54:13 AM »

i get about 5 hours running that same rig on regular alkalines

8+ if I get the lithiums

You must have gotten a bad batch of batteries unless of course you kept the backlight lit. That will run them down really quick.

elwoodblues · « **Reply #5 on:** August 05, 2009, 12:08:15 PM »

Im gonna say bad batts as well, i've run my r-09 on niMH rechargeables for upwards of 9 hours before in testing and almost 6 on regular alkalines. I've run my church pre for over 9 hours in testing on 1 9volt.

greenone · « **Reply #6 on:** August 05, 2009, 12:42:48 PM »

Quote from: Brian Skalinder on August 05, 2009, 11:53:46 AM

Yeah, probably dead batteries. New != good. I've had my share of new, but bad, batteries over the years.

FWIW, I used rechargeable AAs for a while, and had generally good experiences with them. It's important to have a quality charger, I found. I used one of the Maha models from ThomasDistributing, but I'm sure it's discontinued / superseded by now. Not sure which is the best these days. Might be worth a try.

And at least with rechargeables you know they're fully charged...alkalines out of the box, sometimes it's a crapshoot.

Brian E. · « **Reply #7 on:** August 05, 2009, 12:43:57 PM »

what do you guys recommend for a AA rechargeable setup? Was going to head over to Walgreens.

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #8 on:** August 05, 2009, 12:51:42 PM »

I'd stay away from Walgreens, personally. The batts might be okay, but I doubt the chargers they carry are up to snuff. Poke around Thomas Distributing. I've had two Maha chargers that were both excellent. Looks like Lenmar now has a much bigger line than they used to, but I'm not directly familiar with them. Generally speaking, higher mAH rating = longer battery life, so you may want to go with batts rated at >= 2500 mAH.

Brian E. · « **Reply #9 on:** August 05, 2009, 12:56:47 PM »

thanks Brian

notlance · « **Reply #10 on:** August 05, 2009, 01:07:09 PM »

At the risk of turning this into a remote power thread, this is also a very fine charger:
http://www.amazon.com/Crosse-Technology-BC-9009-AlphaPower-Battery/dp/B00077AA5Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1249491697&sr=8-1

As for batteries, I'd look into the low self-discharge NiMH types such as these:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LNI5VC/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

Brian Skalinder · « **Reply #11 on:** August 05, 2009, 01:11:34 PM »

Ahhh...thanks for the link, notlance. I've always heard great reviews about the Eneloops, now I know a bit more about why.

Brian E. · « **Reply #12 on:** August 05, 2009, 01:16:47 PM »

thanks!

DaveG73 · « **Reply #13 on:** August 05, 2009, 01:27:20 PM »

Regarding the 9v I have had more than one really new, first use battery die on me (Energiser/Duracell). It was enough to make me invest in a tester and always have a spare in the bag.

Been using rechargables in the recorder for a while with no issues.

As always YMMV and I am in the UK for whatever milage that may entail.

Dave.

blastroknow · « **Reply #14 on:** August 05, 2009, 02:03:00 PM »

Bummer - bad batteries can happen. Checking voltage with a meter is certainly a good idea and will help get the confidence back so you aren't fighting the urge to look at your recorder every 5 minutes during a show.

Gutbucket · « **Reply #15 on:** August 05, 2009, 02:06:47 PM »

Yep bummer. But take it as a learning experience.

Ditto on the Thomas Distributing, the matched charger and batts and on the low-self discharge AA's.

For the past year and a half I've been using the Maha low self discharge AA's and their 4 bay independent circuit charger, which handily comes with both a wall transfo and 12vdc car adapter and can do a slow or fast charge cycle. I also use their higher voltage 9.6v rechargeables which require the dedicated Maha charger (4 bay, independent circuits, also runs off 12vdc).

The low self-dischargers have a slightly reduced milliamp hour capacity (they still run my R-09s for 6+ hours) but retain their charge for far longer than standard NiMH, with a shelf-life after charging similar to alkalines which is reassuring.

Importantly, I've had no power failures since switching to the rechargeables, though I still carry spares and still check voltage with a multi-meter before heading out if in question.

Brian E. · « **Reply #16 on:** August 05, 2009, 02:19:32 PM »

so, best buy for 8 AA's and 2-3 9V's? The Sanyo's with the Lacrosse charger? Or do they have a 9V? And does it need its own charger?

Gutbucket · « **Reply #17 on:** August 05, 2009, 03:25:47 PM »

Shop it for AA's & charger if cost is a constraint.

But 9 volt rechagables are tricky. Most '9v rechargeables' produce less than 9v and have significantly reduced power capacity. The special higher 9.6v Maha's work fine in my Church Audio and DPA preamps though and are the only higher voltage rechargable 9v's I know of. They have their own special charger that is basically required for best results. They're the only ones I'd use, otherwise I'd just use disposable 9v's. More choices with AA's.

This is all covered in under the remote power section of the site.

Brian E. · « **Reply #18 on:** August 05, 2009, 03:27:58 PM »

yeah i'll probably skip 9V recharges. Thanks!

Brian E. · « **Reply #19 on:** August 05, 2009, 03:29:19 PM »

here's suites' KC set:

http://www.dimeadozen.org/torrents-details.php?id=260781

suites · « **Reply #20 on:** August 05, 2009, 03:40:22 PM »

Quote from: bgreen on August 05, 2009, 11:54:13 AM

i get about 5 hours running that same rig on regular alkalines

8+ if I get the lithiums

You must have gotten a bad batch of batteries unless of course you kept the backlight lit. That will run them down really quick.

OMG....I think I did have the backlight lite................sheeeeet...I will check my setting when I get home.

Come to think about it I thought it was odd that it was lite every time I looked at levels.

It's never easy.

Scooter123 · « **Reply #21 on:** August 05, 2009, 10:06:04 PM »

Yeah, I dim the whole unit.

I do fresh batteries for the Edirol for every show. Yeah, even if its a warm up band. The 2 AA's are cheap, and the tickets expensive, so I ain't takin' chances. A little more lead in the landfills won't hurt, right?

As for the 9v in the Preamp, the Preamps (I use an NBox) use way less power than the Edirol. So I keep those going for the whole night.

doodee · « **Reply #22 on:** August 05, 2009, 10:06:39 PM »

Don't sweat it brutha - we've all effed one up from time to time. Leaving the recorder on pause, cables not plugged in nice and tight, losing power, forgetting to flip tape (dating myself) - the list goes on and on. But in the grand scheme of things, there always seems to be a "next" show to redeem ourselves.

suites · « **Reply #23 on:** August 06, 2009, 09:39:33 AM »

Quote from: doodee on August 05, 2009, 10:06:39 PM

Don't sweat it brutha - we've all effed one up from time to time. Leaving the recorder on pause, cables not plugged in nice and tight, losing power, forgetting to flip tape (dating myself) - the list goes on and on. But in the grand scheme of things, there always seems to be a "next" show to redeem ourselves.

OK I looked at the settings when I got home from work and I did have it right (10 seconds)...so now I think it WAS THE BATTERIES and NOT ME.

Brian E. · « **Reply #24 on:** August 06, 2009, 09:45:20 AM »

Just look at it this way. You don't HAVE to tape. Anytime you get a tape of anything it's just a bonus to the show. :-). Hope you had fun, I saw Green Day in June and it was great!

Belexes · « **Reply #25 on:** August 06, 2009, 10:19:11 AM »

There will be shows where good karma is not present and there is a catastrophic mishap. Just chalk it up to experience and keep trying.

Brian E. · « **Reply #26 on:** August 06, 2009, 10:38:40 AM »

Quote from: Belexes on August 06, 2009, 10:19:11 AM

There will be shows where good karma is not present and there is a catastrophic mishap. Just chalk it up to experience and keep trying.

Agreed. I still sometimes kick myself for the Ben Folds show I lost since it was the best I've seen of him, but can't do anything. So why worry.

prof_peabody · « **Reply #27 on:** August 06, 2009, 08:27:58 PM »

Any chance you left the batteries or gear in the heat (say in your car on a hot miami day)?

Alkaline batteries will discharge MUCH faster above 90 degrees. Don't let your batts fry in the car...

itook2much · « **Reply #28 on:** August 09, 2009, 12:28:25 AM »

Quote from: doodee on August 05, 2009, 10:06:39 PM

Don't sweat it brutha - we've all effed one up from time to time. Leaving the recorder on pause, cables not plugged in nice and tight, losing power, forgetting to flip tape (dating myself) - the list goes on and on. But in the grand scheme of things, there always seems to be a "next" show to redeem ourselves.

Forget to use the hold & manage to hit stop at the start of the show, or use that miraculous "3-sided" cassette.

OOK · « **Reply #29 on:** August 09, 2009, 01:17:47 AM »

I have had great results with Duracell 2650 and this charger from thomas dist...

http://www.thomasdistributing.com/shop/maha-mhc801d-aa-aaa-battery-chargerbrdeluxe-8-cell-professional-battery-charger-w-full-lcd-displaybrbrfree-accessory-bag-2-free-eight-cell-battery-holdersbrspecial-price-6897-p-437.html?SP_id=&osCsid=fs17972mto0cepcf9ikhbatek3

peace
ook

yawnfactory · « **Reply #30 on:** August 09, 2009, 04:51:38 PM »

energizer ultimate lithium are the best. 8-10hrs

sunjan · « **Reply #31 on:** August 10, 2009, 05:47:30 AM »

Quote from: Gutbucket on August 05, 2009, 03:25:47 PM

But 9 volt rechagables are tricky. Most '9v rechargeables' produce less than 9v and have significantly reduced power capacity. The special higher 9.6v Maha's work fine in my Church Audio and DPA preamps though and are the only higher voltage rechargable 9v's I know of.

DLG, Vapex and Kingman Spyder are the three other common brands on the market:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,115620.0.html

Note that Maha usually ships with a 110V only charger. No good if you intend to use it in Europe...

Gutbucket · « **Reply #32 on:** August 10, 2009, 09:32:47 AM »

Quote from: sunjan on August 10, 2009, 05:47:30 AM

Quote from: Gutbucket on August 05, 2009, 03:25:47 PM
But 9 volt rechagables are tricky. Most '9v rechargeables' produce less than 9v and have significantly reduced power capacity. The special higher 9.6v Maha's work fine in my Church Audio and DPA preamps though and are the only higher voltage rechargable 9v's I know of.

DLG, Vapex and Kingman Spyder are the three other common brands on the market:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,115620.0.html

Note that Maha usually ships with a 110V only charger. No good if you intend to use it in Europe...

Good to know there are others making these too now. Last I looked there were two Maha 9.6v chargers- a big 10 bay charger (don't know the details on that one) and the 4 bay charger I use which runs off 12vdc. Mine came with both a 110VAC transformer and a 12VDC cigarette lighter car cord, but I think they sell a version with an international SMPS..

Found it- International versions 1/2 way down this page at Thomas Distributing: International MH-C490F Charger and Charger Combo Kits