Topic: Josephson, Neumann, Audix or ADK?

[olyrc]

Ok, I am now almost officially without a set of mics.

Options for my next pair are (in order or preference, I think):

1. Josephson c42mp
2. ADK TL
3. Audix M1290 (late addition to the race)
4. Neumann km184

So basically the $700-$1000 range.  I am about the most indecisive f#cker alive.  Anybody have any advice?

[thoman8r]

Ok, I am now almost officially without a set of mics.

Options for my next pair are (in order or preference, I think):

1. Josephson c42mp
2. ADK TL
3. Neumann km184

So basically the $700-$1000 range.  I am about the most indecisive f#cker alive.  Anybody have any advice?

Josephson's absolutely smoke for acoustic guitar, singer songwriter types.  However, IMO they are severely lacking on the low end.  Even my old SR-71s had more bass, I think.

I'd love to have them in my arsenal but I'd never use them as my primary mic.

[Craig T]

TL

[muj]

TL

[olyrc]

Ok, I am now almost officially without a set of mics.

Options for my next pair are (in order or preference, I think):

1. Josephson c42mp
2. ADK TL
3. Neumann km184

So basically the $700-$1000 range.  I am about the most indecisive f#cker alive.  Anybody have any advice?

Josephson's absolutely smoke for acoustic guitar, singer songwriter types.  However, IMO they are severely lacking on the low end.  Even my old SR-71s had more bass, I think.

I'd love to have them in my arsenal but I'd never use them as my primary mic.

I'm torn because I tape about 50% acoustic singer-songwriters and 50% jam/rock.  Love Berryman's Glen Phillips tapes, plus the smaller size is appealing.  Don't know about losing the low end though...

[jpschust]

TL or the Neumanns.  personally the km184 is the only mic in the series of the neumanns i dont like as much as i like the rest of them

[thoman8r]

Ok, I am now almost officially without a set of mics.

Options for my next pair are (in order or preference, I think):

1. Josephson c42mp
2. ADK TL
3. Neumann km184

So basically the $700-$1000 range.  I am about the most indecisive f#cker alive.  Anybody have any advice?

Josephson's absolutely smoke for acoustic guitar, singer songwriter types.  However, IMO they are severely lacking on the low end.  Even my old SR-71s had more bass, I think.

I'd love to have them in my arsenal but I'd never use them as my primary mic.

I'm torn because I tape about 50% acoustic singer-songwriters and 50% jam/rock.  Love Berryman's Glen Phillips tapes, plus the smaller size is appealing.  Don't know about losing the low end though...

Yeah, those glen phillips tapes smoke, but the 50% of the time you tape jam/rock bands you are really going to miss that low end.  You might want to consider a pair of Earthworks SR-77s, even they have a bit more low end than the Josephsons and are also excellent mics for acoustic music.

[nickgregory]

If you are going to be doing open taping....and the profile so to speak of the mics is not an issue, it is tough to argue that the TLs are the best value due to the multi patterns.  That being said, if you are willing to consider other options, I would actually look at the Gefell M300s as well.  You can get them in the same price range as the KM184s and I actually like them better than the Neumans for taping rock shows.  

Just my .02

[BobW]

olyrc-

You are having the nearly same dilema that I have.

I want the performance of the TLs, but in a smaller package, made in a country other than The People's Republic of Tibet Bashers.

I think that the off-axis response of the LDs and the transparency of the TLs  is about to cause me to eat my morals and fly the big guns.

OK, so how do I run a pair of TLs vertical in DIN ? (kidding)
Any pics of ORTF with the TLs?

What would be the best bar to start off with on the TLs?
I anticipate taping near stage in smallish clubs.

[blu666z]

Like I told you before, I think the 184s seem boomy.  Maybe the pmod would help that out.  The Josephson sounded too bright to me but I have only heard a couple tapes.  I think the pmod would be too much on the bright/high end.  Yet to hear a TL tape I didn't like.  Don't know too much about the new mic you added.

-Kevin

[imjustchillin]

Schoeps? oops, that wasn't listed  

[olyrc]

Schoeps? oops, that wasn't listed  

Man, I don't need more choices!

[Chapper]

If you are going to be doing open taping....and the profile so to speak of the mics is not an issue, it is tough to argue that the TLs are the best value due to the multi patterns.  That being said, if you are willing to consider other options, I would actually look at the Gefell M300s as well.  You can get them in the same price range as the KM184s and I actually like them better than the Neumans for taping rock shows.  

Just my .02

I'm with Nick...you should take a look at the M300's.  
I mostly tape loud metal/punk acts at crappy sounding venues...I like the 184's better than the 300's in this setting (too much low end for my taste).  But for nice sounding rooms and especially outdoor venues, I really like the M300's.  

[BCostigan]

I'd say TLs.   I have never heard the Josephson's thogh.

As for the 184s....probably my least favorite mic that gets used often.  I'd rather listen to an octava or c1000 source over a 184 source but that's my ears.

Nick seems pretty impressed with his 1290HCs.

[Brian]

TL's......you sacrifice size for versatility.  These mics can be used in the field or in the studio.  Plus i think the cardiod caps sound better than the 184s, just my opinion though. go with what your *ears* tell you, but it looks like your *peers* advise you to the TL's

Brian

[jhirte]

Dont forget the AT4051a's!! You can get them for cheap on ebay on occasion.... a little bright, but for rock, its all good:
http://home.comcast.net/~jhirte/fitz.mp3
this is at4051a -> V3 -> DA-P1
-Jim

[Joe w.]

I was VERY impressed with lee's ADK A51 TL > V3 source from the NMAS H.O.B. show. Nice, clean and very musical with lots of detail. You can really hear how wasted JB was ........A great tape though.

[VA_TAPER]

I'd vote Josephsons...but I'm slightly biased...

Bass is not lacking though, most of my Glen shows are low on bass only beacuse one guitar doesn't make much but Howie Day rocked the Norva a few nights ago and the bass was a little much for my tastes....though sounds fantastic though a system with a sub
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=9989

also check out the Antibalas if you haven't
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=6023

peace, chris

p.s. if you don't have high speed and you'd like some mp3 samples just let me know and I'll post some here.

[olyrc]

I'd vote Josephsons...but I'm slightly biased...

Bass is not lacking though, most of my Glen shows are low on bass only beacuse one guitar doesn't make much but Howie Day rocked the Norva a few nights ago and the bass was a little much for my tastes....though sounds fantastic though a system with a sub
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=9989

also check out the Antibalas if you haven't
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=6023

peace, chris

p.s. if you don't have high speed and you'd like some mp3 samples just let me know and I'll post some here.

Yeah, I dl'd that Howie show yesterday and it sounds pretty good.  Bass is nice and tight.

Any idea how they'd sound through a p-mod UA-5?  Seems like they might be a little bright.  Might need to swap for a w-mod if I went with these...

[VA_TAPER]

I would think they would sound better matched with the W-mod, but Doug says the P-mod is more like apogee sound and I'm using the mini me as the a/d so who knows.  

Mic config will play a good deal in to the HF response.  I prefer to use the "nutter" or ATS technique with the Josephsons.  I have the Shure Vert bar and Shure shockmounts with the capsules aprox. 7" apart aimed slightly to the outside of the stacks.  The degree amount you spread towards the outside of the stacks will determine the HF content as the HF boost (presence peak) is stongly attenuated off axis, so if your tapes are too bright for you run a little wider config and dial it in to taste.  

In switching from the MP2->D100 to the Lunatec->MMe I had to add about 5 degrees to the mics on both sides do to the new found clarity in the highs. YMMV

peace, chris

[olyrc]

I would think they would sound better matched with the W-mod, but Doug says the P-mod is more like apogee sound and I'm using the mini me as the a/d so who knows.  

Mic config will play a good deal in to the HF response.  I prefer to use the "nutter" or ATS technique with the Josephsons.  I have the Shure Vert bar and Shure shockmounts with the capsules aprox. 7" apart aimed slightly to the outside of the stacks.  The degree amount you spread towards the outside of the stacks will determine the HF content as the HF boost (presence peak) is stongly attenuated off axis, so if your tapes are too bright for you run a little wider config and dial it in to taste.  

In switching from the MP2->D100 to the Lunatec->MMe I had to add about 5 degrees to the mics on both sides do to the new found clarity in the highs. YMMV

peace, chris

Thanks Chris.  Got any rig pics of this config?

[blu666z]

The more I hear about the Josephsons, the more I like them.

-Kevin

[BobW]

The more I hear about the Josephsons, the more I like them.

-Kevin

Quoting Bullwinkle J. Moose  "Just listen !"

[olyrc]

The more I hear about the Josephsons, the more I like them.

-Kevin

Yup, I think that is what I'm going with.  They're a bit more than the TLs, so I'll have to wait a week or so before I can afford them, but oh well...

+t to all for the help.

[Larry J. Villella]

If I had to lose a sale to another microphone company,
there's no one I'd rather lose to than Josephson!!

They build a superlative product!

Cheers!

Larry Villella, Founder, ADK Microphones

[mgleason007]

How about AKG 481's?  If you look hard enough you can get a pair ~ $800.

[jnorman34]

i'll second the akg c481s, the AT4051s and the gefell m300s - all very good mics.  i have had schoeps cmc64s, km184s, dpa 4061s, etc, and the c480s are my favorite mics these days.  you should be able to find a good used pair for under $1000.  at4051s or m300s used for around $600 pr.

[jkoch]

i'd also suggest to give chris' mraz tapes (bonaroo and 10/28/03) a listen...good example of the pop/jam/whatever you were talking about and i know you tape him as well

[utahtaper]

i'll second the akg c481s, the AT4051s and the gefell m300s - all very good mics.  i have had schoeps cmc64s, km184s, dpa 4061s, etc, and the c480s are my favorite mics these days.  you should be able to find a good used pair for under $1000.  at4051s or m300s used for around $600 pr.

Ditto. Excellent mic, hold out for 480's.

I'm wondering how many of you have used TL's outdoors? How's the response on the capsule? Tight?

[twoodruff]

hands down the ADK, versatility is the name of the game. I am usually a neumann fluffer yet, as Johnny, the 184 is my least favorite. The m300 are a nice fixed cap cardioid, and I haven't heard that many josephson tapes to form an opinion, but to me the adk has so many applications with 5 settings right there on the mic, how can ya beat that?

[olyrc]

Well, my dilemma was solved pretty easily since Chris decided to move to team AKG.  I now have his Josephsons and we'll find out if I can duplicate the success he's had with them.

+t to all (especially Chris for a great deal)

Cheers thanks.

[Tim]

hands down the ADK, versatility is the name of the game. I am usually a neumann fluffer yet, as Johnny, the 184 is my least favorite. The m300 are a nice fixed cap cardioid, and I haven't heard that many josephson tapes to form an opinion, but to me the adk has so many applications with 5 settings right there on the mic, how can ya beat that?

only 4 on the adk, they are subcard less  

[twoodruff]

still between the options it is the best to me

[Tim]

still between the options it is the best to me

versatility is great.

I like being able to walk into a show and choose the exact pattern that I want.

[ToddL]

Man, the amount of times that the versatility of my TL's has saved the tape is unreal.  I'd say about 25% of the time, I use a different pattern than I originally planned when leaving the house.  The difference that this change makes in the tape is unbelievable most of the time.  example... Garaj Mahal in nederland, walked in planning to go with onstage cards XY.  Well Alan Hertz was set up front and center, so that would've resorted in a drum based recording if set up in the center, or missing something else if we moved to either side.  Hey, why not run 15' split omni's?  Nice to have that option.

[VA_TAPER]

Both times that I used the TL's outdoors was recording If there is a breath of wind present, I wouldn't hesitate to go to the TL omnis though.

not trying to come across as a know-it-all, but there is no benefit (in decreasing of susceptibility to wind noise) in using the omni setting on multi pattern mics when the pattern is electronically derived as it is in the TLs.  In essense you are still using two cardiod capsules so the effect of wind will not change. The footnote is that on capsule like the Schoeps MK-5s and the Shures that are mechanically set by closing the back ports you then have a true pressure transducer with no attributes of a gradient (velocity) transducer so the omni setting as resistance to the transmission of wind noise.  

just a little taper trivia

peace, chris