Topic: HyperCard deployment

[bryonsos]

I have a love/hate relationship with hypers. I love the directionality, but hate the low end characteristics that most have. Having said that, when I use them PAS in clubs and small venues, I tend to like what I get. The bass seems to be more robust than when using typical patterns like DIN. Is this because in those environments the typical stereo patterns end up pointing the mics outside of the stacks? The room where I use them most, it's because I know the crowd will be chatty. Same room, polite crowd, I run a Blumlein setup to get the directionality while preserving the bass. Interested to hear opinions in particular regarding PAS vs DIN, ORTF etc. with hypers.

[jbell]

Try running DINa with Hypers!!  That might help give you the sound your looking for. 

I have a love/hate relationship with hypers. I love the directionality, but hate the low end characteristics that most have. Having said that, when I use them PAS in clubs and small venues, I tend to like what I get. The bass seems to be more robust than when using typical patterns like DIN. Is this because in those environments the typical stereo patterns end up pointing the mics outside of the stacks? The room where I use them most, it's because I know the crowd will be chatty. Same room, polite crowd, I run a Blumlein setup to get the directionality while preserving the bass. Interested to hear opinions in particular regarding PAS vs DIN, ORTF etc. with hypers.

[StuStu]

Try running DINa with Hypers!!  That might help out give you the sound your looking for. 

I have a love/hate relationship with hypers. I love the directionality, but hate the low end characteristics that most have. Having said that, when I use them PAS in clubs and small venues, I tend to like what I get. The bass seems to be more robust than when using typical patterns like DIN. Is this because in those environments the typical stereo patterns end up pointing the mics outside of the stacks? The room where I use them most, it's because I know the crowd will be chatty. Same room, polite crowd, I run a Blumlein setup to get the directionality while preserving the bass. Interested to hear opinions in particular regarding PAS vs DIN, ORTF etc. with hypers.

[bryonsos]

DINa is a thought, thanks.

[acidjack]

It really depends on the hyper - many of them IMHO sound pretty bad, at least for taping - but if you have one you like, I think PAS or DINa is the way to go. I would not run them wide, like in ORTF; if you want a wider sound field, you may as well be using a different pattern.

I don't hate the sound of my MK41s anywhere, but they are my go-to for anywhere that I'm especially concerned about crowd chatter, distance from the source, or a bad room generally.  For instance, I run them in one small club here that actually sounds great, but often has extremely chatty people around and doesn't lend itself to running high.  My recordings with the 41s in there are usually some of my favorites of the year.

[bryonsos]

It really depends on the hyper - many of them IMHO sound pretty bad, at least for taping - but if you have one you like, I think PAS or DINa is the way to go. I would not run them wide, like in ORTF; if you want a wider sound field, you may as well be using a different pattern.

I don't hate the sound of my MK41s anywhere, but they are my go-to for anywhere that I'm especially concerned about crowd chatter, distance from the source, or a bad room generally.  For instance, I run them in one small club here that actually sounds great, but often has extremely chatty people around and doesn't lend itself to running high.  My recordings with the 41s in there are usually some of my favorites of the year.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. FYI, the room I'm referring to is the Cats Cradle. From the normal taping spot near the SBD, with DIN, you're basically pointed outside the stacks, and wider configs point at the walls. They run mono there most of the time, so the stereo image comes from stage bleed and differences in the reflections off of the walls. I'll try DINa next time, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if its an improvement over PAS.

[acidjack]

It really depends on the hyper - many of them IMHO sound pretty bad, at least for taping - but if you have one you like, I think PAS or DINa is the way to go. I would not run them wide, like in ORTF; if you want a wider sound field, you may as well be using a different pattern.

I don't hate the sound of my MK41s anywhere, but they are my go-to for anywhere that I'm especially concerned about crowd chatter, distance from the source, or a bad room generally.  For instance, I run them in one small club here that actually sounds great, but often has extremely chatty people around and doesn't lend itself to running high.  My recordings with the 41s in there are usually some of my favorites of the year.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. FYI, the room I'm referring to is the Cats Cradle. From the normal taping spot near the SBD, with DIN, you're basically pointed outside the stacks, and wider configs point at the walls. They run mono there most of the time, so the stereo image comes from stage bleed and differences in the reflections off of the walls. I'll try DINa next time, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if its an improvement over PAS.

I haven't been to the new venue but from what I understand it's much more warehouse-like than the old one.  I would also be surprised if DINa was better than straight PAS if that is the case.  I generally only run my hypers wider if I'm in a room that actually sounds good but has issues with people talking. 

I would not shy from trying cards run in a much tighter pattern - like 70 degrees but with wider distance between mics - either.

[bryonsos]

It really depends on the hyper - many of them IMHO sound pretty bad, at least for taping - but if you have one you like, I think PAS or DINa is the way to go. I would not run them wide, like in ORTF; if you want a wider sound field, you may as well be using a different pattern.

I don't hate the sound of my MK41s anywhere, but they are my go-to for anywhere that I'm especially concerned about crowd chatter, distance from the source, or a bad room generally.  For instance, I run them in one small club here that actually sounds great, but often has extremely chatty people around and doesn't lend itself to running high.  My recordings with the 41s in there are usually some of my favorites of the year.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. FYI, the room I'm referring to is the Cats Cradle. From the normal taping spot near the SBD, with DIN, you're basically pointed outside the stacks, and wider configs point at the walls. They run mono there most of the time, so the stereo image comes from stage bleed and differences in the reflections off of the walls. I'll try DINa next time, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if its an improvement over PAS.

I haven't been to the new venue but from what I understand it's much more warehouse-like than the old one.  I would also be surprised if DINa was better than straight PAS if that is the case.  I generally only run my hypers wider if I'm in a room that actually sounds good but has issues with people talking. 

I would not shy from trying cards run in a much tighter pattern - like 70 degrees but with wider distance between mics - either.

Yep, they really changed it for the worse from a taper's perspective. No risers etc to absorb reflections, it's basically a concrete and steel box now. Cards DIN or DINa can work, but it better be a full crowd that listens rather than chat.

[jlykos]

It really depends on the hyper - many of them IMHO sound pretty bad, at least for taping - but if you have one you like, I think PAS or DINa is the way to go. I would not run them wide, like in ORTF; if you want a wider sound field, you may as well be using a different pattern.

I don't hate the sound of my MK41s anywhere, but they are my go-to for anywhere that I'm especially concerned about crowd chatter, distance from the source, or a bad room generally.  For instance, I run them in one small club here that actually sounds great, but often has extremely chatty people around and doesn't lend itself to running high.  My recordings with the 41s in there are usually some of my favorites of the year.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. FYI, the room I'm referring to is the Cats Cradle. From the normal taping spot near the SBD, with DIN, you're basically pointed outside the stacks, and wider configs point at the walls. They run mono there most of the time, so the stereo image comes from stage bleed and differences in the reflections off of the walls. I'll try DINa next time, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if its an improvement over PAS.

I haven't been to the new venue but from what I understand it's much more warehouse-like than the old one.  I would also be surprised if DINa was better than straight PAS if that is the case.  I generally only run my hypers wider if I'm in a room that actually sounds good but has issues with people talking. 

I would not shy from trying cards run in a much tighter pattern - like 70 degrees but with wider distance between mics - either.

Yep, they really changed it for the worse from a taper's perspective. No risers etc to absorb reflections, it's basically a concrete and steel box now. Cards DIN or DINa can work, but it better be a full crowd that listens rather than chat.

I've taped dozens of shows at the Cat's Cradle and DINa with hypers is definitely the way to go.  The PA system there varies so much from night to night depending on whomever is running sound and there can be a ton of low end rumble in there from the reverberations from the walls.  Also, most people there are there for social hour, not to see a concert so crowd noise is an issue.

I prefer DINa to PAS because it gives me improved stereo imaging and soundstaging.  If you want just the music as clearly as possible and view soundstage as a secondary issue, then PAS may be more to your liking.

[Hypnocracy]

It really depends on the hyper - many of them IMHO sound pretty bad, at least for taping - but if you have one you like, I think PAS or DINa is the way to go. I would not run them wide, like in ORTF; if you want a wider sound field, you may as well be using a different pattern.

I don't hate the sound of my MK41s anywhere, but they are my go-to for anywhere that I'm especially concerned about crowd chatter, distance from the source, or a bad room generally.  For instance, I run them in one small club here that actually sounds great, but often has extremely chatty people around and doesn't lend itself to running high.  My recordings with the 41s in there are usually some of my favorites of the year.

Yeah, that's pretty much where I'm at. FYI, the room I'm referring to is the Cats Cradle. From the normal taping spot near the SBD, with DIN, you're basically pointed outside the stacks, and wider configs point at the walls. They run mono there most of the time, so the stereo image comes from stage bleed and differences in the reflections off of the walls. I'll try DINa next time, but I'll be pleasantly surprised if its an improvement over PAS.

I haven't been to the new venue but from what I understand it's much more warehouse-like than the old one.  I would also be surprised if DINa was better than straight PAS if that is the case.  I generally only run my hypers wider if I'm in a room that actually sounds good but has issues with people talking. 

I would not shy from trying cards run in a much tighter pattern - like 70 degrees but with wider distance between mics - either.

Yep, they really changed it for the worse from a taper's perspective. No risers etc to absorb reflections, it's basically a concrete and steel box now. Cards DIN or DINa can work, but it better be a full crowd that listens rather than chat.

I've taped dozens of shows at the Cat's Cradle and DINa with hypers is definitely the way to go.  The PA system there varies so much from night to night depending on whomever is running sound and there can be a ton of low end rumble in there from the reverberations from the walls.  Also, most people there are there for social hour, not to see a concert so crowd noise is an issue.

I prefer DINa to PAS because it gives me improved stereo imaging and soundstaging.  If you want just the music as clearly as possible and view soundstage as a secondary issue, then PAS may be more to your liking.

Where were you jlykos....FOB or back at the sound board

[jlykos]

Where were you jlykos....FOB or back at the sound board

Usually just in front and to the right of the SBD, near the risers.  Going FOB in that place is asking for trouble with people kicking your stand and talking all over everything.

[twatts (pants are so over-rated...)]

I've taped dozens of shows at the Cat's Cradle and DINa with hypers is definitely the way to go.

Jamie, not sure if you knew, but the Cradle has re-done the inside...  No more elevated areas, more cavernous/warehouse-like...

Terry

[jlykos]

I've taped dozens of shows at the Cat's Cradle and DINa with hypers is definitely the way to go.

Jamie, not sure if you knew, but the Cradle has re-done the inside...  No more elevated areas, more cavernous/warehouse-like...

Terry

More cavernous / warehouse-like?  How?  The risers were the only decent thing about that place.  Did they knock down the back wall that used to separate the main floor from the bar area or something?

[bryonsos]

Risers gone. Wall gone. They hung a curtain from the ceiling behind the board, that's all that separates the bar from the music area.

[cashandkerouac]

I don't hate the sound of my MK41s anywhere, but they are my go-to for anywhere that I'm especially concerned about crowd chatter, distance from the source, or a bad room generally.  For instance, I run them in one small club here that actually sounds great, but often has extremely chatty people around and doesn't lend itself to running high.  My recordings with the 41s in there are usually some of my favorites of the year.

amen to that comment.  i like the sound of the MK41s quite a bit.  i bought Sennheiser MKH8050s for exactly the same reasons you use your 41s, and the 8050s work great.  the 8050s pull a considerable amount of bass like the MKH8000 series in general, and they have great overall fullness and balance.  to my ears the Schoeps MK41s and the Sennheiser MKH8050s are the best sounding hypers.  just my personal opinion.