Topic: What are some good mics that work with PiP?

[Life In Rewind]

The mere presence of PiP on my TASCAM DR-70D has me believing that I must own some microphones to plug in there!

But I'm PiP dumb - so what are some good mic sets that are PiP-able?

[Church-Audio]

The mere presence of PiP on my TASCAM DR-70D has me believing that I must own some microphones to plug in there!

But I'm PiP dumb - so what are some good mic sets that are PiP-able?

In order to be able to answer that we need to know A) What mics do you have now and B) What kind of levels do you expect to be recording loud concerts quet bluegrass ect? what kind of venues will you be recording at?

All this helps everyone here answer this question. The other issue is one of voltage. I am not familiar with the tascams voltage but I assume its pretty low. My mics are not happy with anything below 5-6 volts for loud concerts.

Chris

[Cobiwan]

Sonic Studios DSM-6S 

[Life In Rewind]

The mere presence of PiP on my TASCAM DR-70D has me believing that I must own some microphones to plug in there!

But I'm PiP dumb - so what are some good mic sets that are PiP-able?

In order to be able to answer that we need to know A) What mics do you have now and B) What kind of levels do you expect to be recording loud concerts quet bluegrass ect? what kind of venues will you be recording at?

All this helps everyone here answer this question. The other issue is one of voltage. I am not familiar with the tascams voltage but I assume its pretty low. My mics are not happy with anything below 5-6 volts for loud concerts.

Chris

By "must" I mean "I am compelled to buy" - not really pondering my current mic selection. - Sorry that didn't land!

Although didn't you make some cables to run Audix caps once upon a time?

I haven't located the TASCAM PiP spec.

I suppose such a rig would be handy when you want minimize setup motions.

Not really considering it part of a primary rig - just something - if practical - I might want in my arsenal.

[bombdiggity]

SP's, Sonic Studios, probably the Core Sounds, I'd have thought Church too, and the AT's (some of which need some modding apparently), Naiant was (and maybe still is) making some options too... 

An inexpensive battery box in front probably helps regardless, though a good small pre may be even better. 

The question does depend on what sort of music in what sort of places, and what sort of sound you tend to like.  The volume of the show can cause issues when too low or too high for that sort of direct simple setup...  With a really quiet (unamplified) show direct PIP may be weak or too low to record well.  With a really loud one (metal/punk/rock) you'd need a battery box or mics may distort. 

I run the CMC-25s (but use a Tinybox in between these days).  They'll work mic-in pretty well on the Sony and the Roland before it...  As far as tiny cards go they are IMO the best.  YMMV. 

[Gutbucket]

Here's the deal-

Most portable recorders have a PIP voltage output of only about 3V or so.  Some 'low voltage' PIP microphones will work fine on that voltage, some will work but with reduced SPL capability, distorting at high sound levels, and some won't work at all.  Most 'low voltage' microphones are designed to run on a 5-10V supply.  A battery box, a preamp which provides PIP, or phantom>low-voltage adapters can be used to power the mics correctly with that voltage, but that means another piece of gear.  If you want to avoid that and plug in the microphones directly to the recorder, look for or ask about low voltage microphones which perform to specification at 3V. 

As mentioned, some of the low-voltage PIP microphones  typically used around here should work, but I'm not sure which.  I do know that DPA makes a special extra-low voltage powered version of their miniature omnis (4063 I believe) which should perform to specification with a 3V supply, but I've never used it.

[stevetoney]

The mere presence of PiP on my TASCAM DR-70D has me believing that I must own some microphones to plug in there!

But I'm PiP dumb - so what are some good mic sets that are PiP-able?

Since nobody's come right out yet in this thread, I will... 

As gutbucket stated, most recorders don't provide enough PIP voltage to power most mics that need PIP  Therefore, in most cases you'd need a battery box to adequately power the mics, so that negates the incentive you've stated for wanting the mics.

In other words, unless you're sure of the voltage range of the mics you buy and you know that the voltage from your recorder meets the mics specs, why bother since you're more than likely going to find out that you need to buy a battery box to make the mics work properly.

[acidjack]

Unless you need something small and stealthy, I hope you aren't buying mics simply to waste an input...Multiple mics doesn't mean "better"; if anything, I'd get a mini plug adapter and some attenuators and use the PIP as your SBD input. That'll make a much larger difference in your recordings than adding some mics that are in all likelihood inferior to whatever phantom-powered condensers you already own.

[Church-Audio]

The mere presence of PiP on my TASCAM DR-70D has me believing that I must own some microphones to plug in there!

But I'm PiP dumb - so what are some good mic sets that are PiP-able?

In order to be able to answer that we need to know A) What mics do you have now and B) What kind of levels do you expect to be recording loud concerts quet bluegrass ect? what kind of venues will you be recording at?

All this helps everyone here answer this question. The other issue is one of voltage. I am not familiar with the tascams voltage but I assume its pretty low. My mics are not happy with anything below 5-6 volts for loud concerts.

Chris

By "must" I mean "I am compelled to buy" - not really pondering my current mic selection. - Sorry that didn't land!

Although didn't you make some cables to run Audix caps once upon a time?

I haven't located the TASCAM PiP spec.

I suppose such a rig would be handy when you want minimize setup motions.

Not really considering it part of a primary rig - just something - if practical - I might want in my arsenal.

I do have a sale on now for any one of my mics * stereo pair * plus a battery box for $99... just saying. Not too many mics will work with low voltage plug in power with out distortion.

Chris

[Gutbucket]

So you have three basic choices, none exclude the others:

1) Acidjack's excellent suggestion to use the mini-jack input for SBD, possibly using attenuators to lower the signal level, but that may not be absolutely necessary.  Attenuators are a good idea for SBD use and necessary if the SBD output level is high enough to distort the recorder's input stage without any attenuation.

2) Chis's suggestion of Mics+batterybox. 

3) Don't plan on recording anything very loud and only use mics which will work with the recorders limited PIP voltage.  Possibly a good option for recording dialog or quick slap-dash stuff or whatever.  But the recorder's internal microphones may already work fine for that job.

As AJ notes, using multiple microphones doesn't necessarily mean "better".. an yet it can make for a better recording if done properly.  After all, recording the SBD to mix in with your AUD is simply another way of using multiple microphones, only most of them in that case are not your own.  Most of the time however, that refers to using multiple pairs of microphones on the same microphone stand (or mounted on the same person).  There are ways of doing that properly, but most members here aren't interested in what it takes to do so.  Most want to run a second 'standard stereo microphone configuration' and mix the two recordings together.  That's what doesn't very well consistently, but it can be useful as a way of comparing two separate stereo recordings without the primary intention of mixing them.

[2manyrocks]

FWIW, I forgot my battery box and ran AT853s that have the 4.k resistor mod directly into my M10 at a concert that wasn't really loud. They did okay except on one part where the volume spiked up. 

Since church audio is having that $99 sale including a battery box, that would seem worth considering if you want to grab a pair of smaller mics that are easier to carry, etc.  That's a setup you can leave in the bag with the 70d to pull out at any time. 

I wish Tascam would publish their pip specs so we wouldn't have to guess....

[Gutbucket]

Would be nice if all manufacturers spec'd the actual PIP voltage.  It's easy enough to measure with a Voltmeter though.

[Life In Rewind]

Would be nice if all manufacturers spec'd the actual PIP voltage.  It's easy enough to measure with a Voltmeter though.

Well - do tell! Can I pull this off with a voltmeter and 1/8>1/8 Plug?
One in the DR-70D and the others exposed for testing?

I have both a voltmeter and DR-70D.

Thanks for all the responses. Let's find out the PiP voltage.

[Gutbucket]

Yep.  Measure the DC voltage between either the tip and sleeve or ring and sleeve of the exposed plug.

[Life In Rewind]

Yep.  Measure the DC voltage between either the tip and sleeve or ring and sleeve of the exposed plug.

I see 2.4 volts? - Maybe I don't have it turned on. Using the "EXT POWER" setting from the menu.

[Gutbucket]

Sounds about right.  If you turn off "EXT POWER" does it go down closer to zero voltage? (it may not be exaclty zero)