Topic: New mics my german friend(a pro audio dude) told me about (with graphs)

[Ray76]

My friend told me about these mics today, and says they are amazing.He is a proffesional sound engineer with the german equivalent of a doctorate in sound, so maybe he is on to something. I havent used them, but maybe someone who is knowledgeable could investigate??I dont know what to look for.as far as specs, etc.Bear in mind, that although the link I am taking you to is in english, the host site is german, so some grammatical errors are present..

the link is: http://www.soundman.de/usa/usa.htm

Just wanted to run that by yall..
Ray

[Sanjay]

I believe a handful of people on this board run these, mostly europeans.  Im sure some will chime in.  I'm gonna be joining team europe in january.  I'm so excited. 

[Ray76]

cool man. You live here in europe??
My buddy swears by 'em, but I dont have much tech know-how yet.
Ray

[Ray76]

I am sending them an email, and I will know soon.
I dont know what htrf method is yet, but I will learn...
I wish I had more tech- know how..
but ise gettin there..
Ray

[Ray76]

Thanks, moke..! +T

[rocksuitcase]

3 of my friends in Texas and I have owned/used 3 different sets of the Sonic Studios over the past 15 years or so.  They are successful to varying degrees, and I highly recommend them at their price point.  the hrtf set up does work, we have stood less than 10 feet from high SPL speaker stacks and made sweet tapes.  In order to pull excellent tapes with them a lot of time spent recording with them is necessary. 
these soundman's do look similar, althouigh they claim to be binaural and look as if they perform best in ear. I say it can't hurt to try them out!
great set up Moke, look sverry lightweight!.

[macdaddy]

Sonic Studios has a patent on this technique, c. 1990 (?)

is that a joke..?

[Govt Mule]

3 of my friends in Texas and I have owned/used 3 different sets of the Sonic Studios over the past 15 years or so.  They are successful to varying degrees, and I highly recommend them at their price point.  the hrtf set up does work, we have stood less than 10 feet from high SPL speaker stacks and made sweet tapes.  In order to pull excellent tapes with them a lot of time spent recording with them is necessary. 
these soundman's do look similar, althouigh they claim to be binaural and look as if they perform best in ear. I say it can't hurt to try them out!
great set up Moke, look sverry lightweight!.

 Kyle is that you?

Pat Gillies
Austin texas

[macdaddy]

Sonic Studios has a patent on this technique, c. 1990 (?)

is that a joke..?

dead serious! pissed me off too, because they forced Sennheiser to abandon the MKE2002 binaural head and its removable mics. Also because quite a few of us were developing this technique in recording Garcia shows (and recordists before that), long before Sonic Studios got thier patent.

that's f*cked... how is that legal..? the term is based on another, already established, older technique, isn't it...

[Tim]

I think Len has copyrighted the phrase "stealth mics"... I seem to remember an issue or two about this coming up when I read dat-heads around 1999-2001

[Sanjay]

cool man. You live here in europe??

transferring to the university of barcelona from new york state college at geneseo in january 

[Ray76]

Good move, man. Barcelona is great. Spain is amazing, I go there about every three months or so.
Beautiful country, beautiful women. Of course you have to run with the bulls in pamplona.It is cliche to do, but really fun. If you ever need suggestions on what to do there, let me know. I know spain pretty well..I am going there in january, as a matter of fact..I will have the price for the mics monday or so.
I would love someone to try em out. I dont know what to look for, or id do it myself.
Ray

[rocksuitcase]

 Kyle is that you?

Pat Gillies
Austin texas

Hey Pat Gillies!
It is me.  I got a thrill out of this thread because of Johhny B's prior relationship with Leanord/Sonic studios.
How is ya doin? 

[John R]

Len's mics and mod to my d8 were my first rig, along with his c-cell sled.  those days were so simple...

here's a link to some talk around here about soundman mics

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=23728.0

[Govt Mule]

Hey Pat Gillies!
It is me.  I got a thrill out of this thread because of Johhny B's prior relationship with Leanord/Sonic studios.
How is ya doin? 

Doing great. just redoing my SLA power set up for Xmas jam. I taked to Eric Britt and he will be there as well. Things are always stange down here in Austin.

Hope to see you out on the road some time this year. Maybe jazz fest if I can swing it. I am going to Erope next month so that's eating up a lot of cash.

John has got some nice tapes with his Sonic studios mics. He pulled a dylan show in a crappy areana that sounds great. Don't see him around as much as we used too.

There is a whole new set of Austin tapers. almost everything gets one or 2 rigs at it. I even got handed a beastie boys recording last month. 

[rocksuitcase]

I've heard eric has been in touch with you.  That is good.  He is quite often taping alone, which can be a drag at times.  Johnny has a second kid now, prolly one reason why you don't see him at too many shows. 
I am wishing I could do the Xmas jam, it looks so good this year!
I am glad both you guys are gonan be there.  from what I see on this board, better get ther extra early to fit in to the TS.  Or maybe an FOB effort is needed.!
Good to see you are on this board, and now I know your handle.
< K

[drumrboy22]

i recently got a Rush concert on cd that was taped with a set of these mics.  off the top of my head (i'm not at home to check for sure), i think the mics were OKMIIR's.  anyway, the sound quality is amazing.  especially considering it was taped in a large arena.  i was really blown away.  if i was in the market, i'd definitely look into these.
   mark

[firmdragon]

i have a pair.  great product for it's price.  you can even plug them straight into a camcorder.

[silverbullet]

I thought I had a pair of RII model. It turned out to be the classic K model. I've had mixed results with the K model. When they worked the recording sounded pretty good. I learned the hard way that the K model can't handle high SPL's very well and to use the -20 pad on the supplied adapter. Depending on what type of music you can also use a bass roll off feature on the power supply adapter as well. Currently these mics are being exchange for the RII model by Soundman.de (I hope)

[poorlyconditioned]

My friend told me about these mics today, and says they are amazing.He is a proffesional sound engineer with the german equivalent of a doctorate in sound, so maybe he is on to something. I havent used them, but maybe someone who is knowledgeable could investigate??I dont know what to look for.as far as specs, etc.Bear in mind, that although the link I am taking you to is in english, the host site is german, so some grammatical errors are present..

the link is: http://www.soundman.de/usa/usa.htm

Just wanted to run that by yall..
Ray

Do you know what capsules are in those?  Are they Panasonic WM60/WM61, or something better?  It seems there are lots of companies offering this stuff, but  very few admit what is actually inside.  I don't mind paying for quality/service, but at least tell use what the elements are.

  Richard

[Ray76]

My buddy says that the caps are made by sennheiser...
I will have a definite answer tomorrow.
Ray

[Ray76]

Here is the word on those mics straight from the german's mouth. Forgive any grammatical errors.
His english is not so hot, but its all good..

High Ray

the mics are 168,-- Euro plus 21,50 airmail shipment if urgent.

The mic is including A 3 Adapter. For sensitive Version ( classic ) we
use Panasonic for Rock-Mics we use beyerdynamik.


Is this good news or bad news??

[rocksuitcase]

hmmmm, buy the rock mic.  If they think the beyer caps handle the high SPL's better, then go that direction. Besdies, there are a few set ups which use the Panasonic's, at least the Beyer based design would be different from the competition.
Although after re reading my above comment i remembered that Ray is just starting out taping and living in europe.  Ray, Beyers are from Europe, good solid engineering, I have owned 2 pair of Beyers ( M201, M201-E) and used others ( M-88, M-160 ).  A very high quality product.
I have seen more than one post on this board complimenting the panasonic caps, so my new opinion( just 10 seconds after the first opinion< is toss it up on this thread, and see what the majority opinion is.  Since I'm making this poorly worded response, I will state my opinion is Beyers caps.

[Ray76]

And some more info from my good bud Rolf

Hi Ray,

the acoustic music is no problem, I can send you the version pop-AV
which has 3 dB more headroom. The max. soundpressure is 108 dB.So you should not record direct in front of the speaker if you record
rock-events. Direct in front of the speakers you come in danger to
get destortions.

For very loud we offer a rock-version which is a little noisy if you
record quite silent sources. But the max soundpressure is 135 dB.The rock version has a higher price of  215,-- Euro plus shipment.

Mostly we try first the pop-AV and in any case you could change to
rock, if destortions will happen.

This is up to some experiences.<<<<<<LMAO!!!gotta love the german way with the english language.. ..
.Sorry, but no obvious answer.

Best wishes

Soundman
Rolf

[rocksuitcase]

I can send you the version pop-AV
which has 3 dB more headroom. The max. soundpressure is 108 dB.So you should not record direct in front of the speaker if you record
rock-events. Direct in front of the speakers you come in danger to
get destortions.

For very loud we offer a rock-version which is a little noisy if you
recThe rock version has a higher price of  215,-- Euro plus shipment.

ord quite silent sources. But the max soundpressure is 135 dB.[/b]

Ray,
He did give us a direction if not an "answer".
when he says maxsoundpressure of 108dB he is saying that the mic can handle peak SPL's of ONLY 108 dB,
but the electornics of this mic are "quieter" than the rock mic. The rock mics can handle peaks of 135 dB which is definitely desirable if you will be doing close to stage ( FOB in TS.com nomenclature) recording .
 By saying the rock mic's are "noiser" than the pop-AV mics during quiet sections he is charcterizing the Pop-AV caps more "clean, classical" and the rock caps as more "rock n roll"

[Ray76]

Ok right on, man.
Im learnin.. slow but steady. So you think they are worth tryin??
+T for the info
Ray

[poorlyconditioned]

Ok right on, man.
Im learnin.. slow but steady. So you think they are worth tryin??
+T for the info
Ray

Dear Ray,

I don't think these are worth trying until he tells you exactly what capsule (brand/model) is inside.  160 euro is something like $200 right?  Would you buy something in a music/audio shop without looking at the specs first?  This is crazy.

As far as capsules goes, Panasonic capsules are really cheap, and you can build yourself.  (Go to the Yahoo group "micbuilders", but you have to know how to solder .)  Beyer make good stuff, but I'd like to see what model he is using.  If you want to spend $200 or more I would just buy AT943 at Soundprofessionals.com (approx $240).  But I guess we have to wait until they get back in stock...

  Richard

[rocksuitcase]

Dear Ray,

I don't think these are worth trying until he tells you exactly what capsule (brand/model) is inside.  160 euro is something like $200 right?  Would you buy something in a music/audio shop without looking at the specs first?  This is crazy.

I must say that Richard's comments make sense.  You should ask the guy to send you a frequency response graph, and polar response graph?  Knowing the exact model number of the Beyer or Panasonic caps they use would be helpful too.  To use Richard's logic, you could buy the proven from soundprofessionals or "gamble" with this.

[Ray76]

Oh, there is no way in hell I am going to buy em without THOROUGHLY researching them.
I will post the results here and then maybe you all can give me input??I emailed him earlier.
Ray

[Ray76]

Yes he does.
His name is Rolf, and is one of the engineers. .
He is goign to send me  a polar and freq. response chart.
Ray

[Brian]

 

I can send you the version pop-AV
which has 3 dB more headroom. The max. soundpressure is 108 dB.So you should not record direct in front of the speaker if you record
rock-events. Direct in front of the speakers you come in danger to
get destortions.

For very loud we offer a rock-version which is a little noisy if you
recThe rock version has a higher price of  215,-- Euro plus shipment.

ord quite silent sources. But the max soundpressure is 135 dB.[/b]

Ray,
He did give us a direction if not an "answer".
when he says maxsoundpressure of 108dB he is saying that the mic can handle peak SPL's of ONLY 108 dB,
but the electornics of this mic are "quieter" than the rock mic. The rock mics can handle peaks of 135 dB which is definitely desirable if you will be doing close to stage ( FOB in TS.com nomenclature) recording .
 By saying the rock mic's are "noiser" than the pop-AV mics during quiet sections he is charcterizing the Pop-AV caps more "clean, classical" and the rock caps as more "rock n roll"

excellent points rock suitcase.  this is exactly what i was tinking when i started reading this thread.  it all depends what exactly you will be recording and how the mic actually sounds.  but given the specs, i'd start looking elsewhere, personally.  let us know how they sound!

[Ray76]

I can send you the version pop-AV
which has 3 dB more headroom. The max. soundpressure is 108 dB.So you should not record direct in front of the speaker if you record
rock-events. Direct in front of the speakers you come in danger to
get destortions.

For very loud we offer a rock-version which is a little noisy if you
recThe rock version has a higher price of  215,-- Euro plus shipment.

ord quite silent sources. But the max soundpressure is 135 dB.[/b]

Ray,
He did give us a direction if not an "answer".
when he says maxsoundpressure of 108dB he is saying that the mic can handle peak SPL's of ONLY 108 dB,
but the electornics of this mic are "quieter" than the rock mic. The rock mics can handle peaks of 135 dB which is definitely desirable if you will be doing close to stage ( FOB in TS.com nomenclature) recording .
 By saying the rock mic's are "noiser" than the pop-AV mics during quiet sections he is charcterizing the Pop-AV caps more "clean, classical" and the rock caps as more "rock n roll"

excellent points rock suitcase.  this is exactly what i was tinking when i started reading this thread.  it all depends what exactly you will be recording and how the mic actually sounds.  but given the specs, i'd start looking elsewhere, personally.  let us know how they sound!

I aint buyin anything yet, man. Probably wont. was just lookin at em.
didnt know if anyone had used em...

[Ray76]

ok...heres some charts..the first...the okm type I in the ear mic 

http://www.soundman.de/_images/tu_abb1.jpg

2nd...OKM II http://www.soundman.de/_images/tu_abb2.jpg

3rd.okm II "klassik"high sensitivity..ones above are "rock mics"http://www.soundman.de/_images/tu_abb3.jpg

4th...okm I/ 0 degrees..http://www.soundman.de/_images/tu_abb4.jpg

and finally the okm I at 30 degrees :http://www.soundman.de/_images/tu_abb5.jpg


this isnt my lane...so I cant make heads nor tails of it..maybe yall can...ray