Topic: Best Noise Dampering Mic Configuration

[charles]

Anyone have recomendations on configurations that work best in a loud club.....you know, one of those places where people show up for God knows what reason and really could care less about the music and run their mouths and laugh the whole damn time.......

[Tim]

run hypercardioids

seriously that would help more than anything. But since I don't think you have that option I would recommend running pointed at the stacks if you usually use a standard stereo technique. You could always just get right up on the stack too...

[BC]

crank your stand as high as possible too.

[BC]

For you tapers who run hypers to cut out crowd noise, I was wondering how much of a effect you think the rear lobe pickup has on hearing the crowd. Could this rear pickup actually pick up more chatter at times?

Sometimes I have thought cardioids might be better for cutting out noise due to their almost total rear (180°) rejection, pointing them straight ahead in AB config. No personal experience, just wondering what you all think.

Take care,
Ben

[Tim]

crank your stand as high as possible too.

great point.

as for the rear lobe, I never noticed any ill effects. the pattern really isn't that sensitive in the rear, I think you would need someone to be right behind your mics and talking pretty loudly to cause any issues and I or another taper was usually standing behind my mics.

[John R]

i'm liking cards at the stacks.  there's also bat to the teeth.

[F.O.Bean]

well, in a loud and chatty place ala mr smalls sat nite, alex ran hypers and i ran cards, his tapes have chatter on the rear lobe, mine have no chatter whatsoever

so im thinking sometimes inclubs like that, use cards and run high

[tim in jersey]

For you tapers who run hypers to cut out crowd noise, I was wondering how much of a effect you think the rear lobe pickup has on hearing the crowd. Could this rear pickup actually pick up more chatter at times?

Sometimes I have thought cardioids might be better for cutting out noise due to their almost total rear (180°) rejection, pointing them straight ahead in AB config. No personal experience, just wondering what you all think.

Take care,
Ben

I find the hypers do tend to pick up more chatter on the rear lobe. I tend not to run them anymore just for that reason...

[BC]

crank your stand as high as possible too.

great point.

as for the rear lobe, I never noticed any ill effects. the pattern really isn't that sensitive in the rear, I think you would need someone to be right behind your mics and talking pretty loudly to cause any issues and I or another taper was usually standing behind my mics.

In some FOB situations, I am the guy yakking away right behind my mics.     I have noticed that I can be talking really loud and as long as I am directly behind them, the mics (cardioid)  do not pick up anything.

[charles]

I think I like the bat to the teeth idea the best. I gave these people my facial expresion ass kicking three times and it quieted them down for a minute or two. Then they returned to there conversation about how excited they were that Duran Duran was back together........and this was at Drew Emmit Band!?!?! I asumed the mics wouldn't pick them up since they were behind the mics, but I was wrong.

[Swampy]

well, in a loud and chatty place ala mr smalls sat nite, alex ran hypers and i ran cards, his tapes have chatter on the rear lobe, mine have no chatter whatsoever

so im thinking sometimes inclubs like that, use cards and run high

Yep, learned the hard way Saturday! haha. Mr Smalls has a bar at the back of the club where everyone talks, so I think running hypers actually picked up more chatter from the rear than beans cards did! DAMN!

[Tim]

did you guys run the same configuration on the same stand?

I've always run hyper in chatty bars and have never noticed that before...

[Swampy]

did you guys run the same configuration on the same stand?

I've always run hyper in chatty bars and have never noticed that before...

Yep. Card and Hypers DIN... Mine were a little higher up and further back on the stand, but the difference was not significant really... But they were different mics going into different pres...

[Tim]

bizarre...

[Swampy]

bizarre...

Just my luck...

[Tim]

bizarre...

Just my luck...

lol

maybe I'm just deaf

[Brian Skalinder]

Then they returned to there conversation about how excited they were that Duran Duran was back together........and this was at Drew Emmit Band!?!?!

For most people, concerts are not musical events, Charles - they're social events.  Why anyone would want to spend $10-$30 per person on tix and buy outrageously priced drinks so they can yell AT their friends for 2-3 hours is beyond me.  But what do I know...

[charles]

Yeah, I know most people view concerts as social events. There is a factor here though that compounds my confusion. This venue is a very very nice small theater and the bar is outside. And I don't mean the theater's bar is outside...it's actually a seperate place. Plus we're talking about Bluegrass here....not exactly a mainstream music your everyday listener would care to hear live. Of course there are the neo-hippies who go and drink beer in their new Mountain Hardware jackets and Kavu visors and talk loudly....just so they can tell people they were there. But hell, I can bitch and moan all day long...I have no control over what other people choose to do.......

[Tim]

Of course there are the neo-hippies who go and drink beer in their new Mountain Hardware jackets and Kavu visors and talk loudly

+T

I know the type, they make up most of this state

[F.O.Bean]

Of course there are the neo-hippies who go and drink beer in their new Mountain Hardware jackets and Kavu visors and talk loudly

+T

I know the type, they make up most of this state

are you one of em tim

[Brian]

Of course there are the neo-hippies who go and drink beer in their new Mountain Hardware jackets and Kavu visors and talk loudly

+T

I know the type, they make up most of this state

are you one of em tim

Tim? Neo Hippe? NO!!!!!

with the glasses, fu-man-chu, and fleece vest i'd say he has the "CO Preppies" covered

[F.O.Bean]

at least hes drinkin a fat tire brian

ummm, where is that and what the hell is going on

tim just passed on the hoola-hoop ehh?

[Brian]

it's an older pic of timmay.  he was harshing the hoopers mellow and flow by getting in the way.  he's being pushed aside by a fellow hooper-w00k.  i think it was from a cervantes post SCI show concert. something like that.

[Brian Skalinder]

Re Tim's pic:

Since we met this past July, Tim - and depending on the date of that picture - you've either [1] cleaned up quite a bit, or [2] taken a turn for the worse! 

[Tim]

Bean, you know what I look like

it's an older pic of timmay.  he was harshing the hoopers mellow and flow by getting in the way.  he's being pushed aside by a fellow hooper-w00k.  i think it was from a cervantes post SCI show concert. something like that.

this is correct

that picture is from last March... so by July I had definitely taken a turn for the worse... and now I've got the full beard

[F.O.Bean]

funniest pic ever, tim doesnt care, hes getting a picture w/ them no matter what did they bail after that?(hoola-hoopers?)

[Tim]

no they had just arrived and taken over the joint to see New Monsoon, we were just getting ready to leave after Signal Path

[Nick in Edinboro]

Anyone have recomendations on configurations that work best in a loud club.....you know, one of those places where people show up for God knows what reason and really could care less about the music and run their mouths and laugh the whole damn time.......

In addition to the recommendations already made, obviously, the closer to the source you can get the better.

If the club is running a mono mix (usually) and you can get your rig setup close to a stack you'll be better off then being DFC and surrounded by a lot of chatter.

[rdptha2nd]

Anyone have recomendations on configurations that work best in a loud club.....you know, one of those places where people show up for God knows what reason and really could care less about the music and run their mouths and laugh the whole damn time.......

In addition to the recommendations already made, obviously, the closer to the source you can get the better.

If the club is running a mono mix (usually) and you can get your rig setup close to a stack you'll be better off then being DFC and surrounded by a lot of chatter.

I tend to have this problem...the band I have been taping seems to only play in long narrow bars that and coffee shops that force them to setup diagonally in a corner on one end of the bar/coffee shop.

What I am running in to is that setting up close is the only option, but also that means I am so close that one stack is invariably pointed in some way that makes a stereo recording of a mono sound setup a problem.  I have been able to make some pretty good recordings this way, but am worrying the whole time about my mic configuration.  I haven't tried running really close to one of the stacks, but I don't know why.

Does anyone know of why this would be a bad idea? 

Since I have been helping the band setup some I have been able to point the stacks in the direction I wish, but that doesn't really help in a long narrow venue where they setup on a diagonal in a corner.

[Nick in Edinboro]

A few problems I see with getting "too close" to the stacks:
 a) High SPL's might cause distortion in your recording, either on the front end (mic capsule) or clipping in the rear (pre-amp & A/D)
 b) If such a small band some of the instruments (Drums, Guitars, Bass for example) are maybe left un-mic'ed and not run through the PA (drums especially) and therefor would not be as present in the mix as they should be.

Does the band have vocals?  If not you might want to try and run on-stage or at stage lip with some omni's.  What is your gear?  What kind of band?  What kind of PA setup?

[rdptha2nd]

A few problems I see with getting "too close" to the stacks:
 a) High SPL's might cause distortion in your recording, either on the front end (mic capsule) or clipping in the rear (pre-amp & A/D)
 b) If such a small band some of the instruments (Drums, Guitars, Bass for example) are maybe left un-mic'ed and not run through the PA (drums especially) and therefor would not be as present in the mix as they should be.

Does the band have vocals?  If not you might want to try and run on-stage or at stage lip with some omni's.  What is your gear?  What kind of band?  What kind of PA setup?

The band does have vocals.

I have been running Grider's 480s lately into my Digimod UA5>Jb3....I hope to be acquiring some TLs soon 

The band plays everything from bluegrass tunes to herbie hancock covers....phish like repertoire....but do not sound like phish when they play similar songs

I am not sure what kind of PA setup they use, but the stacks are relatively small and they are always on the floor of course.

[HBK216]

I've been debating this question in my mind as well. I tape a few artists that I'm friends with around NYC. The problem is most places in NYC are nothing but social togethers so the recordings I have made sound nice considering the gear used but the chattiness annoys me to no end. I am upgrading my gear & will be using a stand. One venue I'll be a regular at is a pub with a small stage & 2 stacks hanging across from each other. I was thinking of using hypers & pointing directly at the stacks from about 7-10 ft away if even, would that be a good idea? I'll be using the OKtava MC012's & I have a matched set with all the capsules.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

[rdptha2nd]

I have been setting up around 10ft. from the stacks and using a DIN Config that isn't precise by any means, but is more of positioning the stacks and the mics to be pointing at each other the best I can.

I have been using hypers also and it sounds like I am doing the same thing you are thinking of trying, but I haven't had any bad recordings...actually my last recording from 12-4-04 is my best so far.

I am not sure about the possible distortion with MC012's since I haven't run them before, I have been running Grider's AKG 480 hypers. 

My question was more one of whether or not it would be a good idea to get real close to one of the stacks and ignore the other one since a diagonal setup in a corner makes it difficult to be in the center of the stage in the venues I have been taping at that are long and narrow.  It seems to me that the difference shouldn't be great as long as the band is running mono of course!

Hope this helps.

Ron- 

[newblue]

One thing I havn't seen mentioned here is in extreme situations where you have a loud talker or clapper you can position yourself as a baffle between the source of noise (the definition noise being unwanted) and your mics.  This takes a little effort and isn't always 100% effective but aside from going over to said person(s) and asking them to STFU, it's an alternative.  Obviously this dosen't eliminate chatter but you feel like you're at least doing something.  I'm a pretty big guy so I act as a decent baffle, so this may or may not work for you depending.

[hhf32]

well, in a loud and chatty place ala mr smalls sat nite, alex ran hypers and i ran cards, his tapes have chatter on the rear lobe, mine have no chatter whatsoever

so im thinking sometimes inclubs like that, use cards and run high

Yep, learned the hard way Saturday! haha. Mr Smalls has a bar at the back of the club where everyone talks, so I think running hypers actually picked up more chatter from the rear than beans cards did! DAMN!

I had a similar problem last Thursday. I had just got my hyper caps for my akg 300's the day before and was dying to try them out. They were alot more chatty but I think this was due to the set up of the bar. The stage was long and narrow...drummer was right on the lip of the stage.
I set up DFC about 12 ft back...raised the stand about 7.5ft in DIN config. They did'nt have everything micked, just the Keyboards,vocals, bongo's and drums. I set up at the front of a table but behind me about 3 ft back they had put plexiglass up to cut down on the sound going out into a different section of the bar. I think the plexiglass was causing the sound to get trapped in there and might have been better off with the cards that night. That rear lobe made it more chatty.
                                                                                                                                   John

[F.O.Bean]

well, in a loud and chatty place ala mr smalls sat nite, alex ran hypers and i ran cards, his tapes have chatter on the rear lobe, mine have no chatter whatsoever

so im thinking sometimes inclubs like that, use cards and run high

Yep, learned the hard way Saturday! haha. Mr Smalls has a bar at the back of the club where everyone talks, so I think running hypers actually picked up more chatter from the rear than beans cards did! DAMN!

I had a similar problem last Thursday. I had just got my hyper caps for my akg 300's the day before and was dying to try them out. They were alot more chatty but I think this was due to the set up of the bar. The stage was long and narrow...drummer was right on the lip of the stage.
I set up DFC about 12 ft back...raised the stand about 7.5ft in DIN config. They did'nt have everything micked, just the Keyboards,vocals, bongo's and drums. I set up at the front of a table but behind me about 3 ft back they had put plexiglass up to cut down on the sound going out into a different section of the bar. I think the plexiglass was causing the sound to get trapped in there and might have been better off with the cards that night. That rear lobe made it more chatty.
                                                                                                                                   John

thats about what alex said from jmp last weekend, cause my cards, oddly, have no chatter really at all

[charles]

I am a very tall guy so the baffle idea is pretty functional here. Just need on more really tall guy and I'd be set. I still like the good old STFU though....you know, in a nice way..or not. Since I'm so big sometimes I can just look at the talkers real intensly and they shut up.

[Ed.]

you can always ask the band to play louder, heh.