Topic: Interesting talk with Audio Upgrades

[Kyle]

I have been thinking about picking up a pair of AKG 391s for general micing use. I use Schoeps in the field but my job invloves micing people at board meetings, pianos and guitars for chior concerts (I work at a performing arts school) and the like. We have low end dynamic mics and I wanted to improve the sound at our events. My school has offered me a 'rental' fee if I bring my own gear to use at events. so the green light is on. So, I figured that a pair of 391s (they seem to be inexpensive used) might be a good starting point. I called audio upgrades to see what they could do with these and they said that these mics are absolute crap and I would be better off buying cheap Chinese mics. I didn't think they were THAT bad,  obviously not top shelf, but crap? Discuss please! 

[pfife]

Did they suggest something else?  Were they trying to get you to buy something more expensive?  I'm always leary of salespersons calling something crap, personally.

[Kyle]

He did recommend a mic, I should have written it down. it was MCA....

i don't remember

[Tim]

I've never heard that opinion of the bluelines before. They served me well for a few years when I was just starting... like you said, certainly they are not top shelf but hardly crap.

[d5]

I assume that the microphone that your refering to is the MCA SP1. I had read some things about this microphones on rec.audio.pro, specifically that Jim Williams from Audio Upgrades was impressed by them and had developed an upgrade for it. The mic sells for around $40 and I saw someplace that the upgrade was $125, although it's not posted on his web site. This makes the price for an upgraded pair of these around $400 total, including shipping.

I posted a thread (last week?) asking if anyone had tried them;

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33914.0

I have a pair of Jim Williams mod 460's and am very impressed by his work. If what he says about the MCA's is true, then they should be a really good deal.

[Kyle]

Yea, I kinda agree. What I am trying to do is rebulid my mic toolbox but at this point $$ are limited. I figured I would start small and work my way back up (the idea is to have some sort of location recording/sound reinforcement company eventually). I always figured the more (read different) mics you have, the greater your flexibility. I saw some great 451s go on ebay recently but as I said before $$ are the limiting factor right now. I think I need a few mours hours on the job!

[Kyle]

I assume that the microphone that your refering to is the MCA SP1. I had read some things about this microphones on rec.audio.pro, specifically that Jim Williams from Audio Upgrades was impressed by them and had developed an upgrade for it. The mic sells for around $40 and I saw someplace that the upgrade was $125, although it's not posted on his web site. This makes the price for an upgraded pair of these around $400 total, including shipping.

I posted a thread (last week?) asking if anyone had tried them;

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33914.0

I have a pair of Jim Williams mod 460's and am very impressed by his work. If what he says about the MCA's is true, then they should be a really good deal.

Nice! Thanks for the heads up! 

[d5]

Posts on the previous thread indicated that the diaphram used in the MCA SP1's are the same as the MXL 1006, a 25mm diaphram. But from what I read on rec.audio.pro, the capsule is the same as the one used in the MXL 603, a 20mm diaphram mic. This raised a question as to whether the SP1's should actually be considered a true Large Diaphram mic, but I'm sure JW at Audio Upgrades could let you know for sure.

I would be very interested in hear how a set of the SP1's sound.

[kgreener]

I assume that the microphone that your refering to is the MCA SP1. I had read some things about this microphones on rec.audio.pro, specifically that Jim Williams from Audio Upgrades was impressed by them and had developed an upgrade for it. The mic sells for around $40 and I saw someplace that the upgrade was $125, although it's not posted on his web site. This makes the price for an upgraded pair of these around $400 total, including shipping.

I posted a thread (last week?) asking if anyone had tried them;

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=33914.0

I have a pair of Jim Williams mod 460's and am very impressed by his work. If what he says about the MCA's is true, then they should be a really good deal.

d5, funny you brought this up, i've been following the SP1 rec.audio.pro threads too.  i went and did some googling, and found a guy at mirrorsound.com who uses these...i sent him an email and this was his response:

"they sound tremendous. They beat out my 414 and E-300 for overall balance and high-end smoothness...need I say more.  If you try them you won't be sorry.

Ken
http://www.mirrorsound.com/Links.htm "

[Kyle]

just spoke with JW and he raved about the MCA SP1. The mod is indeed $125 and he assured me that one would be more than pleased with the results. He did say to avoid the SP2 mic. However, after what he said about the modded 460s (mirroring d5's comment) I may just hold out and wait for a pair t pop up. The agony of choice

[nickgregory]

everyone has an opinion...mine, no mic, and I mean none of them in the $400 or less range touch the 39x series...

[d5]

everyone has an opinion...mine, no mic, and I mean none of them in the $400 or less range touch the 39x series...

Yeah... thats what common sense tells me also and if it had been anyone other than Jim Williams, then I would probably have to agree without even listening to the results, but based solely on the good things I've heard he says about them, I would really love to hear how a pair actually do sound.

One definite advantage of the 39x's is ability to change capsules.

[d5]

d5, funny you brought this up, i've been following the SP1 rec.audio.pro threads too.  i went and did some googling, and found a guy at mirrorsound.com who uses these...i sent him an email and this was his response:

"they sound tremendous. They beat out my 414 and E-300 for overall balance and high-end smoothness...need I say more.  If you try them you won't be sorry.

Ken
http://www.mirrorsound.com/Links.htm "

Yes, that's where I found the $125 price of the upgrade!

[m.mouse]

everyone has an opinion...mine, no mic, and I mean none of them in the $400 or less range touch the 39x series...

Yeah... thats what common sense tells me also and if it had been anyone other than Jim Williams, then I would probably have to agree without even listening to the results, but based solely on the good things I've heard he says about them, I would really love to hear how a pair actually do sound.

One definite advantage of the 39x's is ability to change capsules.

And they are rugged as well. 

That didn't use to be the case with the asian capsules used in a slew of those cheaper condencer mics.
Things might have changed. Don't know.

[Tim]

everyone has an opinion...mine, no mic, and I mean none of them in the $400 or less range touch the 39x series...

Nick bought my 391's from me a few years back!

[nickgregory]

everyone has an opinion...mine, no mic, and I mean none of them in the $400 or less range touch the 39x series...

Nick bought my 391's from me a few years back!

yup ,and they about choked when I taped a show that wasnt phish

[BJ]

I am perfectlyhappy with my 393's, and was happy with my 391's...and have been extremly please with most blueline shows I have heard. 
I do not know jw or anything about him....but why would you want a pair of mics that need to be "modded" to sound good compared to the bluelines which sound good stock?  they are the same price in the end...and I will NOT start to insinuate (like others did about Oade) that he does mods on one and not the bluelines, which helps his business)....I am only wondering about why a "mod" over another stock, if they are same price, yet the stock bluelines offers interchangeable caps...and more support, as jw would be the only one to help with the modded mics...

[johnw]

I think that it is important to point out that JW does mods on several AKG mics - just not the se300s. He also will not (can't ?) mod the 480s, but will do the 460s. The 460s use the same interchangable caps as the 480s. I would guarantee that his decision to mod various mics is based on the feasability of doing the mod and how he thinks it sounds afterwords.

[JAH]

I think that it is important to point out that JW does mods on several AKG mics - just not the se300s. He also will not (can't ?) mod the 480s, but will do the 460s. The 460s use the same interchangable caps as the 480s. I would guarantee that his decision to mod various mics is based on the feasability of doing the mod and how he thinks it sounds afterwords.

 Why do you say JW won't (can't?) mod the 480's???  ...have you spoken to him about it?...just curious
Are the 480 xfr-less?

[BJ]

I think that it is important to point out that JW does mods on several AKG mics - just not the se300s. He also will not (can't ?) mod the 480s, but will do the 460s. The 460s use the same interchangable caps as the 480s. I would guarantee that his decision to mod various mics is based on the feasability of doing the mod and how he thinks it sounds afterwords.

I have never seen anyone talk about, or it listed on his website, that he offers mods on the se300's....I was under the impression that he didn't mod these.  the 480's are not on the list either....only the 460's

AKG 460,
AKG 535EB,
AKG 451/452EB,
AKG 414EB/P48,
AKG 414 TL & B-ULS
AKG THE TUBE,
AKG C12VR,
AKG C12,
AKG C34,
AKG C422 /426

[d5]

I think that it is important to point out that JW does mods on several AKG mics - just not the se300s. He also will not (can't ?) mod the 480s, but will do the 460s. The 460s use the same interchangable caps as the 480s. I would guarantee that his decision to mod various mics is based on the feasability of doing the mod and how he thinks it sounds afterwords.

 Why do you say JW won't (can't?) mod the 480's???  ...have you spoken to him about it?...just curious
Are the 480 xfr-less?

I'm not sure of the details, but my understanding is he can't (not won't) because the 480's use surface mount technology which is alot more difficult and expensive (tools) to make changes to. Also, I'm pretty sure he doesn't sell mic's so the insinuation that he's upselling would be based on a false assumption.

And yes, the 480's are already transformerless.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most of the Audio Upgrade's business is with studios, not with location tapers. Our requirements for microphones are quite a bit differant than those of a studio ...durability and affordability are usually higher concerns to us.

[muj]

"I don't wear jewelry, I listen to it! (Because I'm unmarried, all the money for jewelry goes into the wiring.)

Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades"



classic..just classic.i love JW!!!!

[stlram]

AKG bluelines are not crap and are very good for their price range, especially used! A wholesaler who tells you otherwise has another agenda!

[jk labs]

I have never seen anyone talk about, or it listed on his website, that he offers mods on the se300's....I was under the impression that he didn't mod these.  the 480's are not on the list either....only the 460's

The problem with the se300 is that front-end electronics is emedded into every one of the blue line capsules (these parts are surface mounted and covered in goop).   
 

[heath]

AKG bluelines are not crap and are very good for their price range, especially used! A wholesaler who tells you otherwise has another agenda!

jim williams is not a wholesaler

[JAH]

I think that it is important to point out that JW does mods on several AKG mics - just not the se300s. He also will not (can't ?) mod the 480s, but will do the 460s. The 460s use the same interchangable caps as the 480s. I would guarantee that his decision to mod various mics is based on the feasability of doing the mod and how he thinks it sounds afterwords.

 Why do you say JW won't (can't?) mod the 480's???  ...have you spoken to him about it?...just curious
Are the 480 xfr-less?

I'm not sure of the details, but my understanding is he can't (not won't) because the 480's use surface mount technology which is alot more difficult and expensive (tools) to make changes to. Also, I'm pretty sure he doesn't sell mic's so the insinuation that he's upselling would be based on a false assumption.

And yes, the 480's are already transformerless.

Another thing to keep in mind is that most of the Audio Upgrade's business is with studios, not with location tapers. Our requirements for microphones are quite a bit differant than those of a studio ...durability and affordability are usually higher concerns to us.

thanks D5... thought the 480's were TL but wasn't sure and suspected that they were SMD (had that voice i the back of the mind saying they were smd or heard that they were) and I can understand not wanting to tackle SMD stuff..been there, can do that but, having the right tools is a must.

thanks
jah

[BJ]

I have never seen anyone talk about, or it listed on his website, that he offers mods on the se300's....I was under the impression that he didn't mod these.  the 480's are not on the list either....only the 460's

Problem with the se300 (which I don't know, surface monted as well?) is that front end electronics is emedded into every one of the blue line capsules (SMD and covered in goop). 
 

thank you jk...this was the answer i was looking for!!!  I knew there was a reason, just didnt know it

[Tim]

Also, I'm pretty sure he doesn't sell mic's so the insinuation that he's upselling would be based on a false assumption.

It doesn't matter if he actually sells the mics or not. He does a mod to one and does not do a mod to another, plenty of incentive there to encourage folks to buy the mics that he can tweak.

EDIT: I'm not trying to call JW out, I have never had any business dealings with him and have no reason to believe that he's doing anything unethical here. I was just trying to point out that whether or not he actually sells the mics is not really the issue.

[F.O.Bean]

anyone ever heard a mod414ULS tape

bet thats YUMMY

[kgreener]

Also, I'm pretty sure he doesn't sell mic's so the insinuation that he's upselling would be based on a false assumption.

It doesn't matter if he actually sells the mics or not. He does a mod to one and does not do a mod to another, plenty of incentive there to encourage folks to buy the mics that he can tweak.

EDIT: I'm not trying to call JW out, I have never had any business dealings with him and have no reason to believe that he's doing anything unethical here. I was just trying to point out that whether or not he actually sells the mics is not really the issue.

is it possible certain mics are not mod-able, and that's why he only does certain models?  i don't know...i'm only trying to understand this, as are others...

[Tim]

From reading this thread I think that it is true that some mics are mod-able and some are not. The reason why he does a mod or does not do a mod is not really the issue though.

[Kyle]

I think JW's only agenda is good sound. After talking with him a bit more, he said that both the 460 and the MCA SP1 were crap before the mods so....

I think I'm gonna save my $$ and wait for a pair of 451/452/460's pops up on ebay or the like. More toys!

[stlram]

My only guess is that he loosely throws around the term "crap"! He might feel his upgrades are significant but many of the mic's he desicribes as "crap" prior to the mod is just not crap.

I think the way to look at this is that he is saying he can improve on any mic's performance that he lists in his mod section, thus making the unmoded mic sound veiled in comparison and thus when given the option between the two an easy choice. Whether this is true or not I don't know since I have never heard a shoot out comparison.

[d5]

I think JW's only agenda is good sound.

...having actually done business with him, i would definitely agree. i'd be really surprised to hear differantly by anyone who has talked with him or had work done by him.