Topic: Core Sounds or Sound Professionals?

[Ray76]

SSIA

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

Apples to Oranges, in general Sound Pro carries a much wider selection of taper related toys.

Core-Sound HEB's (DPA406x mics) blow away any Sound Pro mic, but they're pricey +/- $1000

CSB mics are bulletproof, they aren't the best sounding omni mic out there, but for the money they make a great starter mic for the newbs.

CSC's vs. SP cardiods...

Which do you compare them too?  With the Sound pro cardiods you'll need to spend some extra $ and buy a power supply, even then they are mor prone to bass distortion than the CSC's.  Performance for $, I'd give the advantage to Core-Sound.  Sound Pro's can make a nice recording, but lack reliability for amplified shows.

Customer service:

I've heard nothing but good things about Sound Pro's...

Core-Sound is handled by one person, some don't see eye to eye with them.  I've heard multiple accounts in which Core-Sound repaired, in one case contacting DPA and having a defective capsule warrantied and replaced (DPA warranty service is a bitch) for their customer, they do stand by their product.

What it all boils down to:

I don't care who sounds more cordial over the phone, I'm not plugging their ass into my recorder.

[Ray76]

Apples to Oranges, in general Sound Pro carries a much wider selection of taper related toys.

Core-Sound HEB's (DPA406x mics) blow away any Sound Pro mic, but they're pricey +/- $1000

CSB mics are bulletproof, they aren't the best sounding omni mic out there, but for the money they make a great starter mic for the newbs.

CSC's vs. SP cardiods...

Which do you compare them too?  With the Sound pro cardiods you'll need to spend some extra $ and buy a power supply, even then they are mor prone to bass distortion than the CSC's.  Performance for $, I'd give the advantage to Core-Sound.  Sound Pro's can make a nice recording, but lack reliability for amplified shows.

Customer service:

I've heard nothing but good things about Sound Pro's...

Core-Sound is handled by one person, some don't see eye to eye with them.  I've heard multiple accounts in which Core-Sound repaired, in one case contacting DPA and having a defective capsule warrantied and replaced (DPA warranty service is a bitch) for their customer, they do stand by their product.

I don't care who sounds more cordial over the phone, I'm not plugging their ass into my recorder.

This is an info gathering session for me. I dont care one way or the other, as I dont use either of their products. Just a little curiousity satisfaction. I can say though, customer service wise, SP smokes core sounds. For some that doesnt matter, for some it does. A lot of folks wont put money into someones business if they acts like a peckerhead. My involvement with sp was negligible. Used one set of mics for one show, only cuz my ua5 wasnt ready to use with the c4s.

Ray

[TheWildKindness]

 I looked into both companies when I wanted to buy equipment and was almost ready to give my money to Core Sound...but I had a few questions for Len. I sent him a friendly email in regards to my purchase and it's compatability with the recorder I had at the time. I waited about 2 weeks and figured that he must be busy, so I simply sent another friendly email and still never heard back from him. I then tried calling and no one could even give me the help I needed. After seeing all the praise and comments left on the website, I figured that it must be a reputable business. Then I started doing more research online about Core Sound and read quite a few comments about people never getting responses either. I would think that if you want to run a business properly, you do what it takes to satisfy the customer. Needless to say I never gave my money to Core Sound, and probably never would.
  I did however email Chris from Sound Pros and got an answer the very next day... and even when I wasn't sure of my decision, I simply called and Chris was as helpful as could be. The Sound Pros (especially Chris) are top notch and run a tight ship. I would never hesitate to purchase from them again, and would gladly refer them to anyone interested in purchasing equipment.

 Just my 2 cents

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

I looked into both companies when I wanted to buy equipment and was almost ready to give my money to Core Sound...but I had a few questions for Len. I sent him a friendly email in regards to my purchase and it's compatability with the recorder I had at the time. I waited about 2 weeks and figured that he must be busy, so I simply sent another friendly email and still never heard back from him. I then tried calling and no one could even give me the help I needed. After seeing all the praise and comments left on the website, I figured that it must be a reputable business. Then I started doing more research online about Core Sound and read quite a few comments about people never getting responses either. I would think that if you want to run a business properly, you do what it takes to satisfy the customer. Needless to say I never gave my money to Core Sound, and probably never would.
  I did however email Chris from Sound Pros and got an answer the very next day... and even when I wasn't sure of my decision, I simply called and Chris was as helpful as could be. The Sound Pros (especially Chris) are top notch and run a tight ship. I would never hesitate to purchase from them again, and would gladly refer them to anyone interested in purchasing equipment.

 Just my 2 cents

I've never heard good customer service in a recording before. 

[Brian Skalinder]

I've never heard good customer service in a recording before. 

Of course not, because poor customer service - when one truly needs it - will result in a complete failure to record.  No recording = you don't hear it.  But it has an impact nonetheless.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

I've never heard good customer service in a recording before. 

Of course not, because poor customer service - when one truly needs it - will result in a complete failure to record.  No recording = you don't hear it.  But it has an impact nonetheless.

Have any examples?  What complicated issue might arise with mics/battery box terminated with mini-plug that aren't answered on the Core-Sound site? 

While I may not enjoy talking to Core-Sound on the phone I've never had a problem getting a respone, or getting in touch with them.  I have a friend that was running HEB's, they damaged the cable and needed to send them back for repair, CS sent him a loaner set overnight so that they wouldn't have any down time.  Have you heard anything to the contrary?

I then tried calling and no one could even give me the help I needed. 

I find this hard to believe, Len may not be the most cordial individual, but he's very knowledgeable in his field.

[Brian Skalinder]

Have any examples? What complicated issue might arise with mics/battery box terminated with mini-plug that aren't answered on the Core-Sound site?

The C-S site's organization and presentation of information leaves a lot to be desired, IMO, and newbies trying to sort it all out do have difficulty.  I did.  I know of untold numbers of others in the same boat, both first- and second-hand.  So even if all the information is covered on the website, questions may arise.  But all the required information is not available on the website.  For example, C-S suggests one may use the Mic2496 with a JB3, but no where addresses the truncation issue.  Clearly, there's plenty of opportunity for pre-sales questions.

From a post-sales perspective, all the points from pre-sales apply, too.  Then add in the same kinds of thing that may go wrong with any of the gear we use - mic cap gone bad, faulty soldering point in the cable, connector, battery box, etc.  There's nothing unique to C-S or their gear, it's as fallible as all the other gear we use.  So, again, plenty of opportunity for post-sales questions and problems.

While I may not enjoy talking to Core-Sound on the phone I've never had a problem getting a respone, or getting in touch with them.

I'm genuinely glad you've enjoyed success contacting CS.  All anyone else is suggesting is that they, as individuals - and collectively as a group since it's a complaint that arises regularly - have not encountered the same success rate.  Hearing about a problem once, twice, three times - it's easy to write the incidents off as isolated.  Hearing about the same problem repeatedly, consistently, over broad periods of time from a broad potential customer base indicates an actual, chronic problem.

I have a friend that was running HEB's, they damaged the cable and needed to send them back for repair, CS sent him a loaner set overnight so that they wouldn't have any down time.

Glad to hear your friend had a positive experience - sounds like CS responded appropriately, even above and beyond in this case.

Have you heard anything to the contrary?

Repeatedly, over a broad period of time, from a broad range of people, both internal and external to TS, including personal experiences.  I won't repeat the experiences of others here, it's not my place to do so.  My experience happened long ago, and I'm not in a position to recall the details in full, though I have firm recollection of the problems I encountered in getting questions addressed by CS.

I then tried calling and no one could even give me the help I needed.

I find this hard to believe, Len may not be the most cordial individual, but he's very knowledgeable in his field.

I've encountered the very problem you find so difficult to believe, though it was years ago.  I don't chalk up my problem (or others, for that matter) to his lack of knowledge, but rather his (and/or his staff's) willingess and/or ability to communicate effectively with customers.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

The C-S site's organization and presentation of information leaves a lot to be desired, IMO, and newbies trying to sort it all out do have difficulty.  I did.  I know of untold numbers of others in the same boat, both first- and second-hand.  So even if all the information is covered on the website, questions may arise.  But all the required information is not available on the website.  For example, C-S suggests one may use the Mic2496 with a JB3, but no where addresses the truncation issue.  Clearly, there's plenty of opportunity for pre-sales questions.

I didn't even give the mic2496 any consideration because of that reason alone, I'll agree on that one.

For some of CS's other products, I think the products speak for themself.  It may be a poor analogy, but some of these bad experiences could be similar to calling a car dealership and asking for driving lessons.  While it may be beneficial for a retailer to supply as much support as possible, sometimes it should be up to the consumer to do a little homework.

From a post-sales perspective, all the points from pre-sales apply, too.  Then add in the same kinds of thing that may go wrong with any of the gear we use - mic cap gone bad, faulty soldering point in the cable, connector, battery box, etc.  There's nothing unique to C-S or their gear, it's as fallible as all the other gear we use.  So, again, plenty of opportunity for post-sales questions and problems.

I had a cable issue that I needed repaired, I sent it to CS and it was returned in a timely fashion.  The problem was simply from wear-and-tear, more from my use than design, I thought the small fee was quite fair. There are more accounts that I've heard, but no more from individuals I know directly.  You've heard the contrary, so I guess we can chalk up CS for inconsistent customer support.

I'm genuinely glad you've enjoyed success contacting CS.  All anyone else is suggesting is that they, as individuals - and collectively as a group since it's a complaint that arises regularly - have not encountered the same success rate.

In all fairness, on one occasion I asked CS if they would be willing to use a different resistor in the bass filter box, they said that they would not alter their original design, something that I felt could/should be available for $1000+ mics, not the outcome I desired.  Fair enough, they should not be expected to do so, but I did not buy that product for that reason.  I did sense a tad bit of arrogance, but I wasn't shopping for personality.  They did suggest alternative methods that would result in virtually the same outcome, but it wasn't what I wanted, so I went elsewhere.  I do trust that what was suggested would in fact work as described by CS, it just wasn't what I wanted to do.

I've encountered the very problem you find so difficult to believe, though it was years ago.  I don't chalk up my problem (or others, for that matter) to his lack of knowledge, but rather his (and/or his staff's) willingess and/or ability to communicate effectively with customers.

Same as my response at the top.   

[Brian Skalinder]

It may be a poor analogy, but some of these bad experiences could be similar to calling a car dealership and asking for driving lessons. While it may be beneficial for a retailer to supply as much support as possible, sometimes it should be up to the consumer to do a little homework.

I'll agree with you on two points:  [1] it's a poor analogy, and [2] the consumer certainly has a responsibility to do some homework.

Same as my response at the top.

You lost me... 

[Ray76]

I would rather not record at all then deal with rude people.  Life's too short.  But that's just me. 

Especially when one's products are generally aimed toward beginners and newbie questions are bound to arise.  If you wanna be a grumpy ass, then get someone else to handle the customer service.

no thats not just you hoss.me too.

i will never support someone who is being an asshole, no matter how good his equipment is.
Ray

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

I would rather not record at all then deal with rude people.  Life's too short.  But that's just me. 

Especially when one's products are generally aimed toward beginners and newbie questions are bound to arise.  If you wanna be a grumpy ass, then get someone else to handle the customer service.

no thats not just you hoss.me too.

i will never support someone who is being an asshole, no matter how good his equipment is.
Ray

That's why I've suggested the E-bay route... 

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

[ with you on two points:  [1] it's a poor analogy, and [2] the consumer certainly has a responsibility to do some homework.

Same as my response at the top.

You lost me... 

I've encountered the very problem you find so difficult to believe, though it was years ago.  I don't chalk up my problem (or others, for that matter) to his lack of knowledge, but rather his (and/or his staff's) willingess and/or ability to communicate effectively with customers.

For some of CS's other products, I think the products speak for themself.  It may be a poor analogy, but some of these bad experiences could be similar to calling a car dealership and asking for driving lessons.  While it may be beneficial for a retailer to supply as much support as possible, sometimes it should be up to the consumer to do a little homework.

If it's a poor analogy, how so?

CSB, CSC, HEB, what's complex about these microphones? 

[Ekib]

I am a user of Core-Sound's Cardioid stealthy mic's(the $ 250 ones).I am a stealth taper and therefore my mic's need to be small.There may be better bigger(in size)mic's on the market but they are no option for me.I have heard many of the competition and I just loike the CSCD mic's the best.That's my taste,I just like the way they "sound".Last year for a brief period I changed(even bought a pair)to Microphone Madness Highline Sennheiser driven mic's.They can't even stand the test with CSCD to me.Sure they have more warmth but I miss the clarity and directness CSCD have.Also at one concert the MM's distorted a little bit on the bass end so that is unacceptable to me.I am not even considering any other mic anymore.I like the way my recordings sound and they have an uniformity since I have been using them for so long(with that small exception I just mentioned).I don't need to do much with the CSCD recordings...no equalizer etc. That's another thing I like about them...

Since I am using the mic's for so long I have dealt with Len on a few occasions with different outcome.Last year after 6 years my mic broke down.After such a time I find this a normal thing since I carry my mic's at so many gigs and afterwards you fold them and unfold them,take them in your pocket etc.etc..It's a miracle they didn't break earlier.Len than told me my mic's were broken beyond repair(and I know he does repair when he can since 2 of my friends have CSCD also).So he said he has a 5 year grace period(out of the warranty period).If a mic breaks down you can buy a new one for half the money..$ 125.I thought this was great service.He didn't even have to do that since I had my mic's for 6 years but he said he appreciated my business.I thought this was very good service.The new pair he sent me sounded just as good as the old pair and he shipped it out the next day.That was great service!

Than a friend of mine had his mic broke down.I mailed it back for him(september 2004) but to this day the thing has never been repaired.I tried calling him,emailed him several times...no reply!As good as he treated me with my mic's as POOR he does his job with this other pair of mic's.My friend has 3 pair of CSCD's so he doesn't really miss this one...in the end he just let it go...
Than along with the replacement mic I did order a pair of windscreens.I did pay an extra $ 10 and Len promised to ship it along with the mic(the replacement pair)...the mic arrived but no windscreens.I email Len..no response...tried to call him...nothing...tried calling again...got him on the line..."call me back at 4 PM" because I'm on my way...called him back at 4 PM...no answer and so on and on.I still don't have my windscreens.
I have had other pair of mic's being repaired and although he wasn't easy to track he did a good job at them for a fair rate.

My point is you just never know what treatment you are getting from Len.It could be great,it could be terrible.
If this was with any other company I would have left right away.But I love these mic's so much and I can't get them anywhere else.So I deal with Len and hope for the best everytime...

[audBall]

As good as he treated me with my mic's as POOR he does his job with this other pair of mic's.
Than along with the replacement mic I did order a pair of windscreens.I did pay an extra $ 10 and Len promised to ship it along with the mic...the mic arrived but no windscreens.I email Len..no response...tried to call him...nothing...treid calling again...got him on the line..."call me back at $ PM" because I'm on my way...called him back at 4 PM...no answer and so on and on.I still don't have my windscreens.I have had other pair of mic's being repaired and although he wasn't easy to track he did a good job at then for a fair rate.
My point is you just never know what treatment you are getting from Len.It could be great,it could be terrible.
If this was with any other company I would have left right away.But I love these mic's so mucha nd I can't get them anywhere else.So I deal with Len and hope for the best everytime...

Hit or miss?  No thanks!  I'll stick w/ Sound Pro's...Like mentioned before, if this guy has social issues then he needs to hire someone to take care of the communication factor.  That's ridiculous...we are giving him OUR money and we have to take a 50% chance as to whether or not the sale will be complete or the guy will be pleasnt to deal with?  That really tops it off for me w/ Core...that, and the addition of the rudimentary, out-of-date website (for a newb, it gives headaches trying to read through all that info and make a sound purchasing decision...a little better organization and presentation would help ten-fold) is enough for me.  I'm glad I did business with SP. 

[Nick Graham]

Sorry for bumping an old thread, but just wanted to give my $.02

My experiences with Len have been mostly positive. I too one time was told to call back later, which I thought was a bit strange from a retailr, but nonetheless everything went smoothly.

My one gripe however, and this applies to their "taking advantage of newbies", is the absolute shittyness of their 7 pin cables. They're poorly designed (to the point they could actually damage the deck's input), and I never even had one that worked. But, to read their site, you'd think they were the greatest...what, with their "7 Pin Bible", etc.

[Ekib]

My one gripe however, and this applies to their "taking advantage of newbies", is the absolute shittyness of their 7 pin cables. They're poorly designed (to the point they could actually damage the deck's input), and I never even had one that worked. But, to read their site, you'd think they were the greatest...what, with their "7 Pin Bible", etc.

I have used Len's 7 pin cables many times.I used it to make quick back ups(at the time)from a DAT to a portable Minidisc(in case for some reaosn something might happen with the DAT tape)and it always worked smoothless.In what way didn't it work???

[fandelive]

another comparison between CS and SP :
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category.cgi?category=review

[aseltzer144]

I was recently looking for an inexpensive quality mic primarily for voice recording. I also wanted something very portable. I was familiar with Sound Pros from my purchase of a minidisc recorder several years ago. Since then they came out with an even less expensive version of their basic binaural mic. I heard the musical sound sample on the website and was very impressed, given that it was recorded so inexpensively. I also knew of Core Sound but their low cost binaurals were more than the Sound Pros and I doubted that they would be any more suitable for my purpose.

I called Sound Pros and got Chris on the line. In a manner of minutes, he quickly explained the handful of mics that would suit my purpose, why I would want omni over cardioid, and then was able to focus me on to one particular mic. I got the mic two days later, an SP-BMC-2, which is the least expensive binaural they sell and the one recommended by Chris. Recording quality going directly to minidisc without a battery box was very good. In fact, it was a bit too good, picking up a lot of ambient noise that normally is filtered out by the human ear. When I called back to ask if this sensitivity issue could be addressed, another salesperson spent about half an hour with me explaining other options. As it turns out, I found a way to reduced the ambient noise significantly in Audacity and I will keep these mics. For the quality of the mics for the price, as well as for their customer service, I recommend them.

Personally, customer service is important and I do expect a high level especially if I am dealing with an owner. As far as I am concerned, as good as a product may be, there are too many other good products out there to have to accept lacking customer service.

[PG]

My one gripe however, and this applies to their "taking advantage of newbies", is the absolute shittyness of their 7 pin cables. They're poorly designed (to the point they could actually damage the deck's input), and I never even had one that worked. But, to read their site, you'd think they were the greatest...what, with their "7 Pin Bible", etc.

I have used Len's 7 pin cables many times.I used it to make quick back ups(at the time)from a DAT to a portable Minidisc(in case for some reaosn something might happen with the DAT tape)and it always worked smoothless.In what way didn't it work???

Their 7-pin looks like an instrument of medieval torture.

[surf1div1]

OK, I know this thread is old, but while looking at Sound Professionals I had to respond to this post which to me is the exception and not the rule. I've posted previously on my poor experiences with CS- First, check the warranties on both- I purchased the HEB (DPA) and with Len, I sent them back and after two years he wouldn't do squat. I asked since I'd had so many problems with them (first told me my cables were bad and replaced those less then a year after owning them telling me I was rough on them (all four times using them) I sent them back. Anyway, if it comes to DPA deal direct with them. Len never , as cordial as he was made good on my 'defective' mike (which DPA found) and Len claimed was abused. Suffice to say, I don't trust Core Sound or Len. If I had known about this site I would of never purchased anything from him after reading of similiar experiences with others. So, in summary, while you make think your stuck with service with Core Sound if you have their HEB, DPA America will stand behind them- and that was after Core Sound's lame warranty which is 1/2 of what DPA offers. Once burned, twice shy. Never buy from Len or Core Sound- but then anyone who check's this group knows that anyway ;-)

I am a user of Core-Sound's Cardioid stealthy mic's(the $ 250 ones).I am a stealth taper and therefore my mic's need to be small.There may be better bigger(in size)mic's on the market but they are no option for me.I have heard many of the competition and I just loike the CSCD mic's the best.That's my taste,I just like the way they "sound".Last year for a brief period I changed(even bought a pair)to Microphone Madness Highline Sennheiser driven mic's.They can't even stand the test with CSCD to me.Sure they have more warmth but I miss the clarity and directness CSCD have.Also at one concert the MM's distorted a little bit on the bass end so that is unacceptable to me.I am not even considering any other mic anymore.I like the way my recordings sound and they have an uniformity since I have been using them for so long(with that small exception I just mentioned).I don't need to do much with the CSCD recordings...no equalizer etc. That's another thing I like about them...

Since I am using the mic's for so long I have dealt with Len on a few occasions with different outcome.Last year after 6 years my mic broke down.After such a time I find this a normal thing since I carry my mic's at so many gigs and afterwards you fold them and unfold them,take them in your pocket etc.etc..It's a miracle they didn't break earlier.Len than told me my mic's were broken beyond repair(and I know he does repair when he can since 2 of my friends have CSCD also).So he said he has a 5 year grace period(out of the warranty period).If a mic breaks down you can buy a new one for half the money..$ 125.I thought this was great service.He didn't even have to do that since I had my mic's for 6 years but he said he appreciated my business.I thought this was very good service.The new pair he sent me sounded just as good as the old pair and he shipped it out the next day.That was great service!

Than a friend of mine had his mic broke down.I mailed it back for him(september 2004) but to this day the thing has never been repaired.I tried calling him,emailed him several times...no reply!As good as he treated me with my mic's as POOR he does his job with this other pair of mic's.My friend has 3 pair of CSCD's so he doesn't really miss this one...in the end he just let it go...
Than along with the replacement mic I did order a pair of windscreens.I did pay an extra $ 10 and Len promised to ship it along with the mic(the replacement pair)...the mic arrived but no windscreens.I email Len..no response...tried to call him...nothing...tried calling again...got him on the line..."call me back at 4 PM" because I'm on my way...called him back at 4 PM...no answer and so on and on.I still don't have my windscreens.
I have had other pair of mic's being repaired and although he wasn't easy to track he did a good job at them for a fair rate.

My point is you just never know what treatment you are getting from Len.It could be great,it could be terrible.
If this was with any other company I would have left right away.But I love these mic's so much and I can't get them anywhere else.So I deal with Len and hope for the best everytime...

[nameloc01]

Lol.   you most definitely are not going to overpower any of sp's higher end mics if you power them correctly with phantom power. If you use one of their standard bb's you can pretty easy. As far as the dpas....you are only paying for the small package...soundwise sp carries several at mics that sound just as good if not better. For a fraction of the price..you can get a killer set of at mics modded for phantom and a phantom supply for just about half the cost.

[Patrick]

Their 7-pin looks like an instrument of medieval torture.

That could be the funniest thing I've read all night

[moooose]

just my .02

I bought separately mics and a preamp from SP. Both of times I got from Chris and his team an outstanding sale and post sale service: timely, effective, warm. Personally I would'nt underestimate customer service, especially if a repair is needed.

Regarding product comparisons... it depends on what we are talking about - but please let's compare apples with apples, especially pricewise.