Topic: AKG 414's (which ones should I get???)

[Charlie Miller]

Steve Kimock just called me and said he wants to start using AKG 414's to mic his guitar amp. We used them for our studio album, the dvd and lots of shows. He really liked the way they sound.

What I was wondering is which ones to get. There are 3 kinds listed on the website:

AKG C 414 B-XL II http://www.akg-acoustics.com/site/products/powerslave,id,782,pid,782,nodeid,2,_language,EN,view,specs.html
AKG C 414 LTD http://www.akg-acoustics.com/site/products/powerslave,id,987,pid,987,nodeid,2,_language,EN,view,specs.html
AKG C414 B-XLS http://www.akg-acoustics.com/site/products/powerslave,id,781,pid,781,nodeid,2,_language,EN,view,specs.html

We obviously need one that can handle a high SPL. When Rudson (Ramrod's son) was working with the band, he would use 414's on Steve that he got from the GD studio. Not sure which ones they were, but they were nice.

Any input from 414 owners would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Charlie

[spreadheadtom]

Charlie.....I used to run the xls's....they may be overkill since all you will be doing with them is using them on the amp.

edit:  when you talk to Kimock again, tell him that the weather in Memphis is nice.  He should come visit and play for us

[NOLAfishwater]

I am pretty sure that the XL are specifically designed for instrument micing:

An Improved Version Of A Studio/Stage Classic!
With new useful features, improved technical specifications, ease of use and available accessories, AKG's C 414 B-XL II launches the next generation of AKG microphone quality. This update of a classic microphone maintains its distinctive timbre especially designed for recording or live reproduction of solo vocals and solo instruments. 

What do I know? I have a pair of XLS and I have never run the XL II's.

[easy jim]

All three have -6, -12 and -18 db pads on the mics and can handle very high spl without difficulties.

The XLS are more flat in terms of freq. response, so they would probably be the best of the three and the most commonly used for micing loud guitar amps.

The XLII are transformerless and have a presence bump in the mid/high with female solo vocals in mind, so less suited in my opinion due to likely EQ issues in the mid-high range

I believe the LTD are the same as the XLS, with the one exception of being transformerless on the output stage...other than that, they are just more $$$ and have a different finish/factory markings  (the freq. response charts are slightly different and show more of a mid-high bump with the LTD vs. the XLS version)

  so sad I just sold mine...

[NOLAfishwater]

All three have -6, -12 and -18 db pads on the mics and can handle very high spl without difficulties.

The XLS are more flat in terms of freq. response, so they would probably be the best of the three and the most commonly used for micing loud guitar amps.

The XLII are transformerless and have a presence bump in the mid/high with female solo vocals in mind, so less suited in my opinion due to likely EQ issues in the mid-high range

I believe the LTD are the same as the XLS, with the one exception of being transformerless on the output stage...other than that, they are just more $$$ and have a different finish/factory markings  (the freq. response charts are slightly different and show more of a mid-high bump with the LTD vs. the XLS version)

  so sad I just sold mine...

Thanks for the professional opinion. Now I know, "and knowing is half the battle".  - G.I. Joe

[easy jim]

Thanks for the professional opinion. Now I know, "and knowing is half the battle".  - G.I. Joe

well, not really professional...

[audBall]

I believe they're all transformerless (XLII, XLS, LTD....even the older TLII).  Not the old ULS, though.

[Charlie Miller]

Thanks for all of your input. +t all around...

[easy jim]

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a pair of 414s micing Trey's amp in the Live in Brooklyn Phish DVD.  Maybe it was one for the PA and one for the recording? Or maybe as two fig. 8 w/ different spacing from the amp + phase cancellation?  Anybody know?

[dean]

I believe they're all transformerless (XLII, XLS, LTD....even the older TLII).  Not the old ULS, though.

That's my understanding, as well.  I'm a new with my xls, though, so I'm as interested as anyone in this thread.  I hope Skalinder chimes in as he ran xls for quite some time and in many different applications.

Another notion I hold, and disabuse me of this if it's incorrect, is that the xls is primarily for acoustic up close instrument mic'ing.  That's why I got mine.  I know they DO work well for that application, but I don't know that they don't work well for other applications, e.g., electric guitar amp mic'ing.

Finally, the first night I used them I had a problem with the wav squaring off on the bottom of the wav form (as described here with graphic wav image).  I'm going to experiment with using rolloff & attenuation pads, and I need to rule out the reflection from the hard wood floor, as well.  The squaring off happened to a MUCH lesser extent when I recorded a PA'd show from 30' back (also documented further down that thread I linked), which leads me to think it's an attenuation/rolloff issue more than anything else (or that something else altogether is happening).  My concern is that Skalinder said he never used attenuation and rolloff and never had a problem.  He didn't get specific on the applications, though.

Anyway, anxious to hear some more replies to this thread.

And Charlie, I think Steve will really dig whichever 414 he ends up with.  It's a killer sounding mic and will complement his "sound" very nicely.

[bluegrass_brad]

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a pair of 414s micing Trey's amp in the Live in Brooklyn Phish DVD.  Maybe it was one for the PA and one for the recording? Or maybe as two fig. 8 w/ different spacing from the amp + phase cancellation?  Anybody know?

If he is running a stereo amp and using true stereo effects then two mics would be needed, one for each speaker.

[easy jim]

Finally, the first night I used them I had a problem with the wav squaring off on the bottom of the wav form (as described here with graphic wav image).  I'm going to experiment with using rolloff & attenuation pads, and I need to rule out the reflection from the hard wood floor, as well.  The squaring off happened to a MUCH lesser extent when I recorded a PA'd show from 30' back (also documented further down that thread I linked), which leads me to think it's an attenuation/rolloff issue more than anything else (or that something else altogether is happening).  My concern is that Skalinder said he never used attenuation and rolloff and never had a problem.  He didn't get specific on the applications, though.

Possibly the output of the mic was overloading the inputs of your pre? (If so, using the pads would help)  I know the signal output of the 414s is pretty hot compared to a lot of other mics.  When I used them on stage, I would often only need to add a little or even no gain on the pre-amp to get a really nice signal.

[Tim]

Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a pair of 414s micing Trey's amp in the Live in Brooklyn Phish DVD.  Maybe it was one for the PA and one for the recording? Or maybe as two fig. 8 w/ different spacing from the amp + phase cancellation?  Anybody know?

If he is running a stereo amp and using true stereo effects then two mics would be needed, one for each speaker.

what Brad said

for fun I dug up this input list from the 2001 TAB tour...
http://images.onstagemag.com/files/46/0205Extras/anastasio.html

Guitar left              AKG 414
Guitar right            AKG 414
Guitar leslie left      Sennheiser MD 409
Guitar leslie right     Sennheiser MD409
Guitar leslie low       EV RE38
Boomerang             Countryman DI

[tfs8271]

Let us know what you end up going with and can't wait to hear the results.

[Charlie Miller]

I'm thinking C 414 B-XLS