Topic: Boosting levels when mastering adds too much punch

[itook2much]

Maybe roll off the highs?  If they're what you think are too harsh.

Maybe try normalizing using a limiter, to help with the crowd vs. music ratio (tho of course it'll decrease the dynamic range like compression).

I dunno, just throwing out ideas.

[Keyd]

Maybe roll off the highs?  If they're what you think are too harsh.

Maybe try normalizing using a limiter, to help with the crowd vs. music ratio (tho of course it'll decrease the dynamic range like compression).

I dunno, just throwing out ideas.

That's actually what I was just doing. I'm also trying to roll off the snare with the eq. I usually don't eq this heavily but it seems the punch is still there, unfortunately.

I am still researching the plugins. I heard some more good things about the waves today.

[Kevin]

Waves makes great plug-ins, but as stated above they are a little pricey.  What you can do, however, is download a trial version of the Waves plug-ins.  Make an account of their site, sign in, find the plug-in you want to use and download a trial version of it.  I did this recently, and it did what I needed it to do.  Loaded it up in Pro Tools, fixed my file and bounced the track out.

[Tim]

what mic configuration and what was the rig?

[Keyd]

Waves makes great plug-ins, but as stated above they are a little pricey.  What you can do, however, is download a trial version of the Waves plug-ins.  Make an account of their site, sign in, find the plug-in you want to use and download a trial version of it.  I did this recently, and it did what I needed it to do.  Loaded it up in Pro Tools, fixed my file and bounced the track out.

I have been thinking about doing that. +Thanks for the prodding. I will try them out.

what mic configuration and what was the rig?

Church stc-11's with either cards (usually DIN) or omni's (usually A-B) > Church CA-9100 > R-09 or H4

I haven't tried aiming the mics up like I see some people doing. I point them at the speakers, usually the outside. I think I may try pointing the omni's up next time I'm at a loud show, or if I am relatively close to the drummer, or if I am at a show with a loud drummer.

Is this why they do this? I know they must prefer the sound but I am wondering if it limits the crack of the snare and the smash of the crashes and cymbals.

The shows I am working on sound really great except for that one issue. Maybe I'm a little too picky with my modest equipment but I think I can fix this with hope that I can also retain the quality that i have been getting.

[BC]

Waves makes some nice Plugins for this

i use L2 with all my recordings - they have since replaced that with the L3 Ultramaximizer

second this, I think the waves ultramaximizer works very well.

[TNJazz]

Waves makes some nice Plugins for this

i use L2 with all my recordings - they have since replaced that with the L3 Ultramaximizer

second this, I think the waves ultramaximizer works very well.

Yes, but it's cost prohibitive (unless you just need it once, then you can download the 14 day Waves trial...or of course if you're using one of those "grey market" versions... )

Waves makes great plug-ins, but as stated above they are a little pricey.  What you can do, however, is download a trial version of the Waves plug-ins.  Make an account of their site, sign in, find the plug-in you want to use and download a trial version of it.  I did this recently, and it did what I needed it to do.  Loaded it up in Pro Tools, fixed my file and bounced the track out.

Kevin, if you're working in ProTools you may also want to try Stephen Massey's L2007 Mastering Limiter (http://www.masseyplugins.com)  It's TDM and RTAS, and is unlimited time trial version (you just can't save the settings when you close PT).  If you like it, the cost is only $89.  A lot of folks I know have ditched L2 and L3 in favor of Massey.  It sounds quite outstanding.

[Kevin]

Ill give it a try.  Do they have a trial version?

[TNJazz]

Ill give it a try.  Do they have a trial version?

Yes.  It's an unlimited trial - fully functional except you can't save the settings when you close PT.  So you have to reset it each time.  Not exactly a big deal, but it's WELL worth the $89 investment (as are ALL his other plugins!)

[Church-Audio]

My biggest problem lately is this:

When recording very dynamic music I am conservative with the levels and the peaks only reach about -6 to -3dB so the many quiet parts of the music seems too soft when I play it back. When I raise the levels after they are I recorded this low it seems way too loud during the louder parts and has a punch that almost knocks your head off. Also, many times it is the crowd that is the loudest so it's hard not to have the music at these lower levels. It's some work to lower the crowd independantly in mastering but that isn't any problem compared to the overwhelming punch that happens when I raise the levels.

I am looking for a way to make the recordings louder but smoother and not so harsh with all that punch. I could try to be more aggressive with setting my levels when recording but I hate distortion and we all know about fixing that. I hope there is a way to control this either when recording or in post.

I have tried a few things but have been unsucessful. Suggestions really appreciated.

If you want to send me a bit of the file in question so I can see what I can do on my end. If I find a good solution I will let you know what I did..

Chris
Send me a pm if you dont have my email address.

[Keyd]

Kevin, if you're working in ProTools you may also want to try Stephen Massey's L2007 Mastering Limiter (http://www.masseyplugins.com)  It's TDM and RTAS, and is unlimited time trial version (you just can't save the settings when you close PT).  If you like it, the cost is only $89.  A lot of folks I know have ditched L2 and L3 in favor of Massey.  It sounds quite outstanding.

Hey, +Thanks a lot. I will check out this L2007 limiter. It sounds like it might be what I am looking for.

My biggest problem lately is this:

When recording very dynamic music I am conservative with the levels and the peaks only reach about -6 to -3dB so the many quiet parts of the music seems too soft when I play it back. When I raise the levels after they are I recorded this low it seems way too loud during the louder parts and has a punch that almost knocks your head off. Also, many times it is the crowd that is the loudest so it's hard not to have the music at these lower levels. It's some work to lower the crowd independantly in mastering but that isn't any problem compared to the overwhelming punch that happens when I raise the levels.

I am looking for a way to make the recordings louder but smoother and not so harsh with all that punch. I could try to be more aggressive with setting my levels when recording but I hate distortion and we all know about fixing that. I hope there is a way to control this either when recording or in post.

I have tried a few things but have been unsucessful. Suggestions really appreciated.

If you want to send me a bit of the file in question so I can see what I can do on my end. If I find a good solution I will let you know what I did..

Chris
Send me a pm if you dont have my email address.

I would like to take you up on that. I am getting ready to go out of town for the weekend. If I don't get it to you in the next few hours, I will send it to you next week. +Thanks once again.