Topic: Zoom F6 (32-bit float equipped)

[aaronji]

Yes, these are now rather old, but the 788 is superior to the F-series (and the SD MixPre-II line for that matter) in pretty much every category, particularly build quality, repair-ability, and support.

Personally, I have never considered the Zooms, or the MixPres for that matter, to be professional grade. More like "prosumer". The MixPres, though, are repairable and share the same excellent customer support that you should expect with the 788.

Honestly, I find it kind of scandalous that a $650 recorder is essentially disposable in Zoom's eyes. I guess good customer service costs a bundle, though.

[jbell]

Just my opinion, but I would always chose Sound devices over Zoom!  They have a long standing history of quality recorders. 

[grawk]

just for reference, the service fee (before anything is done) for SD is $800 now...

[DSatz]

It's a field recorder. Field recorders get subjected to occasional knocks. If the device can't take it, that's on the manufacturer. Serviceability is an intrinsic element of competent equipment design, except for items such as flashbulbs, Q-Tips and Kleenex.

[aaronji]

just for reference, the service fee (before anything is done) for SD is $800 now...

It depends on the product, with higher prices for discontinued models: https://www.sounddevices.com/support/. It appears from the wording that the fee includes parts and labor. They also say to contact them for parts, so you can probably save some cash if you can do it yourself or know someone that can. Of course, that doesn't get you the one-year warranty that SD service comes with. 

[voltronic]

just for reference, the service fee (before anything is done) for SD is $800 now...

Ouch. Fortunately, the engineers at SoundPure gave it a thorough once-over before putting it up for sale. And I also have a no-risk trial week or I can send it back without getting charged if I find any issues with it. The other thing is that if and when I need to replace the SSD or the timecode battery, those are very easy to do myself.

[spyder9]

just for reference, the service fee (before anything is done) for SD is $800 now...

$800 bench charge makes the SD MixPre recorders disposable, just like the Zoom and Tascam recorders. 

[grawk]

just for reference, the service fee (before anything is done) for SD is $800 now...

It depends on the product, with higher prices for discontinued models: https://www.sounddevices.com/support/. It appears from the wording that the fee includes parts and labor. They also say to contact them for parts, so you can probably save some cash if you can do it yourself or know someone that can. Of course, that doesn't get you the one-year warranty that SD service comes with.

yeah. The 788 is what I was discussing. My 552 also. It’s the difference between old pro gear and new prosumer gear at similar price points to the zoom and mixpre (which is also prosumer)

[aaronji]

^ It's a lot, to be sure, but I think the older 7-series must be about twenty years old now? Discontinued around 5 years ago? At $245 for a $1060 MixPre-6 or $345 for a $1775 MixPre-10, the price isn't too bad.

[grawk]

^ It's a lot, to be sure, but I think the older 7-series must be about twenty years old now? Discontinued around 5 years ago? At $245 for a $1060 MixPre-6 or $345 for a $1775 MixPre-10, the price isn't too bad.

yeah i wasn’t trying to add fuel to the sd vs zoom argument, more sharing the pain of using “outdated” top tier gear. I use my sd WITH my f6, so i decided on both.

[aaronji]

There is no SD vs. Zoom argument from me. I figure people should use whatever they prefer; both have their advantages and disadvantages.

I completely understand "the pain of using 'outdated' top tier gear", though, or, at least, the cost of getting it repaired. I guess there are (at a minimum) two factors, one of which is the older parts becoming more rare and difficult to source and the second is that (probably) SD wants to make it painful enough that you go for non-outdated top tier replacements! I noticed that the MP-2 is in the $795 category. In my opinion, you would have to be crazy to fix one at that rate...

[voltronic]

Yes, the service rates on discontinued items are indeed very high, but their explanation for that on the repair FAQ makes sense. They do say that they carry pretty much every part for everything they've ever made, and will sell you the parts if you want to do repairs yourselves.

Don’t you have a cheaper option for service?

No, we do not. We won’t take shortcuts on our work, and we have a finite number of trained Technicians available. Sound Devices equipment is typically straightforward to disassemble to do simple things like replace batteries or connectors. The technically inclined may elect to do this work themselves. For any PC-board-level repairs, we highly recommend sending units to us, as we do not publish schematics, and we also carry all the specialized repair equipment, like hot-air pencils, microscopes, BGA rework equipment, and diagnostic equipment required for this work. For any units still under warranty, we require that we do all the work on the equipment, otherwise the warranty is voided.

Why are your rates higher for discontinued products?

Three reasons: 1) Keeping stock of all the parts and the test equipment requires a significant investment of capital; 2) Offering a 1-year warranty on older products is riskier; 3) We do prioritize and incentivize the repair of the newer products over older ones.

[voltronic]

Before this thread diverges further off topic, I want to clear the air.

I still think the F6 is a great piece of gear, and will still recommend it. My unit is one of the very first ones delivered to Sweetwater, so it's given me years of solid service.
The only thing that's changed is that my recommendation now comes with the caveat that Zoom does not sell replacement parts or perform repairs.

//

If we're going to continue talking about Sound Devices we should probably continue it elsewhere. That was my fault for bringing all that into this thread.

[goodcooker]

Before this thread diverges further off topic, I want to clear the air.
I still think the F6 is a great piece of gear, and will still recommend it. My unit is one of the very first ones delivered to Sweetwater, so it's given me years of solid service.
The only thing that's changed is that my recommendation now comes with the caveat that Zoom does not sell replacement parts or perform repairs.
//
If we're going to continue talking about Sound Devices we should probably continue it elsewhere. That was my fault for bringing all that into this thread.

I bought a Zoom F6 in 2021 for a very fair used price I think it was less than $500 IIRC. I fooled around with it at home but didn't take it out to record a show since I was working 7 days a week for months at a time. Something about it just didn't jive with me. I've heard some good sounding recordings made with them and I think the price performance ratio is outstanding but Zoom as a company just keeps coming out with more and more new gear every year to the point where I have doubts about their engineering them for longevity.

I looked long and hard at an SD 788t when the bottom fell out of the market. The preamps are my favorite of any device they've made.

[voltronic]

I heard some good sounding recordings made with them and I think the price performance ratio is outstanding but Zoom as a company just keeps coming out with more and more new gear every year to the point where I have doubts about their engineering them for longevity.

Interesting observation about the frequency of new products and how that may relate to their expected service life. It does seem that the amount of new products that they release in a given year has been increasing.

Also, I realize comparing Zoom to a company like Sound Devices may be a bit unfair. The history of those companies' respective products and the customers they serve are not at all the same. A better comparison might be with Tascam or Sony.