Topic: stealth gear brah

[saxophoner]

anyone have any advice for some faily inexpensive stealth gear.  i've got stuff for going to taper friendly shows but nothing for those special ops undercover tapes.

thanks

[itook2much]

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=35004.0

Depends on your budget, preferences for media (or non-media recorder), whether you want to use an outboard pre- or ADC, etc.  Use the search, there are plenty of gear-related threads that will tell you how each may suit your needs.  Also look in the archive.

 

[Oysterhead00]

If I remember correctly, you were looking for a cheap rig before (Superlux or similar) so I'll assume you are on a smaller budget. 

Sonic Studios makes some great tiny mics for clipping on your glases, but for them and the battery box it's upwards of $800.  I have a set of SS DSM-6S's that I love and stealth right into my Sharp MD recorder with no battery box and have gotten good quality recordings.
http://www.sonicstudios.com/dsm.htm

Next up would probably be Core Sound or Sound Professional mics.  I've owned both and love the SP AT853s I have.  They're pretty stealthy, but Sound Professionals also makes smaller versions that I think use Panasonic elements and I'm not sure how good they are.  They have some clearence mics on both sites where for probably about $100 you could get a decent set...but I'd say $250 is a ballpark price for a good set and battery box.
http://www.core-sound.com
http://www.soundprofessionals.com

Next up would be Church Audio...I've never owned anything or even heard any recordings made by them, but I hear they're pretty good.  He is a board member here and I think if you go to the gear loaner section of the site, I think there's a set there to play with.  I think he sells tiny stealth mics in a Croakies mount for about $150 on eBay.

After that, I'd say Giant Squid mics that I've never tried but hear they are decent.  Search on eBay as the company always sells stuff there.  You should be able to get a set of cards and battery box for a little over $100.


When it comes to stealthing shows there is no clear answer.  You can get some DPA mics for a couple grand and run them into a Preamp stuffed down your pants and a Phamtom power supply in your boot and an A/D in your hat....you can get carried away very easily and my idea of stealth is different than a lot of people.  Some people's stealth setups are larger than my open setup. 

Also keep in mind that stealthing a show is a pickier taping science requireing you to get in the sweet spot, avoid talkers, stay still, look straight ahead the whole time, etc.  A $30 T mic in a MD recorder could get you a better sounding recording from the sweet spot than a $3,000 rig in the nosebleeds with screaming teenagers surrounding you and a drunking hitting you in the head where you have the mics.

I'd say make your choice based on your budget and then experiment and see if you want to upgrade in the future.  Good luck

[nameloc01]

Also keep in mind that stealthing a show is a pickier taping science requireing you to get in the sweet spot, avoid talkers, stay still, look straight ahead the whole time, etc.  A $30 T mic in a MD recorder could get you a better sounding recording from the sweet spot than a $3,000 rig in the nosebleeds with screaming teenagers surrounding you and a drunking hitting you in the head where you have the mics.

this is 150% true !!! especially the part about being still and asshole "neighbors" . you also need to know the acoustics of the venue you are taping at,sometimes the "sweet spot" is not where you think it would be.

[guysonic]

this is 150% true !!! especially the part about being still and asshole "neighbors" . you also need to know the acoustics of the venue you are taping at, sometimes the "sweet spot" is not where you think it would be.

From 20+ years experience with sideburn-to-temple headworn Sonic Studios DSM mics, thinking about the sound is mostly unproductive; it almost NEVER sounds as you THINK it should.

Many years ago Fletcher of Mercenery Audio posted (rec.audio.pro) as such while using a HRTF baffled (LiteGUY) DSM mic during a recording session.  He tried thinking about where the best sound was, and then resorted to just listening to the sound mix at several positions.  So ONLY way to know EXACTLY what is being recorded, at least with headworn DSM mics, is fully LISTEN with BOTH EARS (true-stereo-surround mode) to heard-mix-of-ambient sound at choices of recording position within the venue. 

Just listening to the live sound seems easy enough, but you'd be surprised how sometimes elusive clearly hearing surround-sounds can be!  Most people tend to concentrate on sounds within the field of vision, often ignoring side-on-back ambient sounds. 

While closing the eyes tends to immediately 'open-up our surround-sound mode' of hearing things, most find with just a little practice hearing in surround with eyes open is not difficult. 

For those who still wonder what HRTF stereo-surround venue recording sounds like, scores of downloadable examples at www.sonicstudios.com/mp3_2slp.htm

[china_rider]

this is 150% true !!! especially the part about being still and asshole "neighbors" . you also need to know the acoustics of the venue you are taping at, sometimes the "sweet spot" is not where you think it would be.

From 20+ years experience with sideburn-to-temple headworn Sonic Studios DSM mics, thinking about the sound is mostly unproductive; it almost NEVER sounds as you THINK it should.

Many years ago Fletcher of Mercenery Audio posted (rec.audio.pro) as such while using a HRTF baffled (LiteGUY) DSM mic during a recording session.  He tried thinking about where the best sound was, and then resorted to just listening to the sound mix at several positions.  So ONLY way to know EXACTLY what is being recorded, at least with headworn DSM mics, is fully LISTEN with BOTH EARS (true-stereo-surround mode) to heard-mix-of-ambient sound at choices of recording position within the venue.

Just listening to the live sound seems easy enough, but you'd be surprised how sometimes elusive clearly hearing surround-sounds can be!  Most people tend to concentrate on sounds within the field of vision, often ignoring side-on-back ambient sounds.

Just thought I would mention that I think this is totally true.  I've had my DSMs for a few years now and really love them.  One thing I notice is that after recording when playing back, the recording rarely sounds like I remember it.  I don't mean this in a bad way, Mostly the recordings sound better than I remember the sound at the show. 

One thing that really sticks out though is when playing back through headphones I really notice the surround nature of the recording.  I'll be listening at my desk at work and even though I'm in an office with no one arround me I'll spin around in my chair because I hear something behind me.  It's really pretty funny cause I've had the mics long enough I would think that I would not do it anymore. 

I also have a recording of a jam session in the lot at the Joshua Tree Music fest from a few years ago with some of the memebers of Hamsa Lila and others.  All the players were in a circle around the camp site.  Some dancing around and moving during the jams.  I had a homemade baffle that I placed in the center of the circle.  The surround stage is pretty amazing.

I'm heading to Roger Waters in a few months and have a seat that is dead nuts center in the middle of the surround speakers.  Can't wait to use my DSMs there.

Dana

[RebelRebel]

you never miss an opportunity to pimp your gear eh, Guy?

this is 150% true !!! especially the part about being still and asshole "neighbors" . you also need to know the acoustics of the venue you are taping at, sometimes the "sweet spot" is not where you think it would be.

From 20+ years experience with sideburn-to-temple headworn Sonic Studios DSM mics, thinking about the sound is mostly unproductive; it almost NEVER sounds as you THINK it should.

Many years ago Fletcher of Mercenery Audio posted (rec.audio.pro) as such while using a HRTF baffled (LiteGUY) DSM mic during a recording session.  He tried thinking about where the best sound was, and then resorted to just listening to the sound mix at several positions.  So ONLY way to know EXACTLY what is being recorded, at least with headworn DSM mics, is fully LISTEN with BOTH EARS (true-stereo-surround mode) to heard-mix-of-ambient sound at choices of recording position within the venue. 

Just listening to the live sound seems easy enough, but you'd be surprised how sometimes elusive clearly hearing surround-sounds can be!  Most people tend to concentrate on sounds within the field of vision, often ignoring side-on-back ambient sounds. 

While closing the eyes tends to immediately 'open-up our surround-sound mode' of hearing things, most find with just a little practice hearing in surround with eyes open is not difficult. 

For those who still wonder what HRTF stereo-surround venue recording sounds like, scores of downloadable examples at www.sonicstudios.com/mp3_2slp.htm

[china_rider]

Ouch.. that was a little harsh. 

Anyway... I thought I would post another option... just to add to your choices... A friend picked up a set of Countryman B6 Lavaliers recently.  They are around the size of a matchstick.  To my ears the recordings  I've heard have sounded very good.  That being said they were going into a 722 at 24/96.  They also seem like they may be harder to mount than the some of the other mini mics.

[Evil Taper]

ebay 4061s + sound pros batt box = damn fine stealth rig for $400 or less

[firmdragon]

ebay 4061s + sound pros batt box = damn fine stealth rig for $400 or less

this should really be your top choice in terms of a stealth rig.  find a cheap rockboxed iriver and you are set for a while. for most non-arena shows you don't even need a batt box.

i wish ebay dpas were as cheap as they are now, 6 years ago. 

[dmaster]

I think you guys worry way too much about the "sweet spot" when you're stealth taping...

you're STEALTH taping, do you really have the option to even think about that when you're stealthing?  (and wouldn't it make you painfully obvious to anyone that's running the venue that knows people tape that you're trying desperately to get to a particular part of the venue?)

IMO, if you're stealthing, try to get your ass as close to a stack as you can and stop worrying about the "sweet" spot. 

also, I think you need a battery box MORE at indoor shows, since you need the extra power to stop the mics from shitting the bed on you when you get loud sounds and excessive bass.   (unless it's something acoustic, in which case I guess you can use your best judgement). 

Also, I think guysonic, you should have a disclaimer somewhere to let people know that you're selling your gear rather than just giving helpful or semi-helpful advice.  I'm not sure the new people necessarily know who you are, and everyone should take the advice with a grain of salt knowing that you're pimping your own products and convincing someone to buy your gear is padding your pockets, rather than the unbiased helpful advice most people here are giving.   I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I own a pair of DSM-6 mics and they're good for the price, but people really should know that you've got a personal interest in people listening to what you say much more so than the rest of the board. 

[nameloc01]

I think you guys worry way too much about the "sweet spot" when you're stealth taping...

you're STEALTH taping, do you really have the option to even think about that when you're stealthing?  (and wouldn't it make you painfully obvious to anyone that's running the venue that knows people tape that you're trying desperately to get to a particular part of the venue?)

IMO, if you're stealthing, try to get your ass as close to a stack as you can and stop worrying about the "sweet" spot. 

also, I think you need a battery box MORE at indoor shows, since you need the extra power to stop the mics from shitting the bed on you when you get loud sounds and excessive bass.   (unless it's something acoustic, in which case I guess you can use your best judgement). 

Also, I think guysonic, you should have a disclaimer somewhere to let people know that you're selling your gear rather than just giving helpful or semi-helpful advice.  I'm not sure the new people necessarily know who you are, and everyone should take the advice with a grain of salt knowing that you're pimping your own products and convincing someone to buy your gear is padding your pockets, rather than the unbiased helpful advice most people here are giving.   I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I own a pair of DSM-6 mics and they're good for the price, but people really should know that you've got a personal interest in people listening to what you say much more so than the rest of the board. 

the "sweet spot" refers as much to the sound/music itself as it does to a position away from other sounds. like being above crowd noise,not right in the middle of it.
example: cleveland house of blues.the absolute best place to stealth a show is:
a.in front of the board on the general admission floor
b.center of the balcony
c. the restroom
the answer is c,the best place is the center of the balcony.why?,because you
are on the same linear plane as the sound system and well above the noise and chaos on the floor.
so,the "sweet spot"is not always where you think it would be.if you like i can send samples of both postions.

[flipp]

the "sweet spot" refers as much to the sound/music itself as it does to a position away from other sounds. like being above crowd noise,not right in the middle of it.
example: cleveland house of blues.the absolute best place to stealth a show is:
a.in front of the board on the general admission floor
b.center of the balcony
c. the restroom
the answer is c,

Not sure I need ot hear another whizzroom tape, unless it's from the Ladies.  ;-)

[Evil Taper]

I think you guys worry way too much about the "sweet spot" when you're stealth taping...

you're STEALTH taping, do you really have the option to even think about that when you're stealthing?  (and wouldn't it make you painfully obvious to anyone that's running the venue that knows people tape that you're trying desperately to get to a particular part of the venue?)

IMO, if you're stealthing, try to get your ass as close to a stack as you can and stop worrying about the "sweet" spot. 

also, I think you need a battery box MORE at indoor shows, since you need the extra power to stop the mics from shitting the bed on you when you get loud sounds and excessive bass.   (unless it's something acoustic, in which case I guess you can use your best judgement). 

Also, I think guysonic, you should have a disclaimer somewhere to let people know that you're selling your gear rather than just giving helpful or semi-helpful advice.  I'm not sure the new people necessarily know who you are, and everyone should take the advice with a grain of salt knowing that you're pimping your own products and convincing someone to buy your gear is padding your pockets, rather than the unbiased helpful advice most people here are giving.   I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I own a pair of DSM-6 mics and they're good for the price, but people really should know that you've got a personal interest in people listening to what you say much more so than the rest of the board. 

stack taping is for pussies

[RebelRebel]

Hey Evil tell us what you really think. 

I think you guys worry way too much about the "sweet spot" when you're stealth taping...

you're STEALTH taping, do you really have the option to even think about that when you're stealthing?  (and wouldn't it make you painfully obvious to anyone that's running the venue that knows people tape that you're trying desperately to get to a particular part of the venue?)

IMO, if you're stealthing, try to get your ass as close to a stack as you can and stop worrying about the "sweet" spot. 

also, I think you need a battery box MORE at indoor shows, since you need the extra power to stop the mics from shitting the bed on you when you get loud sounds and excessive bass.   (unless it's something acoustic, in which case I guess you can use your best judgement). 

Also, I think guysonic, you should have a disclaimer somewhere to let people know that you're selling your gear rather than just giving helpful or semi-helpful advice.  I'm not sure the new people necessarily know who you are, and everyone should take the advice with a grain of salt knowing that you're pimping your own products and convincing someone to buy your gear is padding your pockets, rather than the unbiased helpful advice most people here are giving.   I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I own a pair of DSM-6 mics and they're good for the price, but people really should know that you've got a personal interest in people listening to what you say much more so than the rest of the board. 

stack taping is for pussies

[saxophoner]

stack taping?

[George]

stack taping?

Aiming the mics at the PA stacks (typically with a mic stand).

[sullen]

I think you guys worry way too much about the "sweet spot" when you're stealth taping...

 

^^^ That's right!




-T your hearts out hippies.

[Evil Taper]

i should've clarified:

stack humping is what the guys recipe called for, the act of standing really close to one of the speaker stacks and taping that instead of recording a stereo mix of the concert.  alot of times the instruments aren't being fed through both stacks so a stack humped tape will be lacking sound that should be on the tape.  i guess the advantage of stack humping is that the music will be extremely loud that close to the speakers which, in theory,  should produce a tape with less crowd noise.  i PERSONALLY think this is a shitty way to make a tape and you're probably more likely to be spotted by security since you're standing a couple of feet away from the stage security crew, when you're standing FOBDFC you're just some person in a sea of people and most of the time there's no security personnel anywhere near you.  do what you want though, they're your own tapes to listen to.  i just think with so much focus on what gear sounds best the taper should at least be trying to pull the best tape possible at every show.  i know sometimes it's logistically impossible to get in the sweet spot but with a decent rig you'll be ok if you're a little off center.

stack taping, as in pointing mics at stage stacks instead of running a strict ortf/din/xy or whatever, can be beneficial in venues that are oblong sideways or have shittastic room acoustics.  when you're aiming directly at the stacks with a card pattern you'll be picking up more direct stack sound than ambient sound so you can sometimes correct for shitty venues.  i've noticed that this technique can yield tapes a bit on the bright side though so i don't even consider it unless it's a really crappy room that i'm taping in.


AND TEDDY, SPEAKING YOUR MIND IS NOT A CRIME!  I DO WHAT I WANT BITCHES!

[RebelRebel]

AND TEDDY, SPEAKING YOUR MIND IS NOT A CRIME!  I DO WHAT I WANT BITCHES!

Well, do your thing, hero!Youll show them! But you do need to calm down. If I want to insult you, I will do it in a big way, and not include smilies. 

I tend to like hearing the concert on recordings and not everything else. I dont really care about ambience in a PA tape, just want to hear the band. The recordings I have heard of VA-TAPER I think were made "hugging the stack" if I am not mistaken. They sound phenomenal. The ambience in most clubs sounds terrible so I dont care to hear it. The speakers are where the sound is coming from, no?

[RebelRebel]

are you referring to the womens undergarment, as it relates to sneaking gear into concerts?

Took me a second to figure that one out!

[Sebastian]

stack humping is what the guys recipe called for, the act of standing really close to one of the speaker stacks and taping that instead of recording a stereo mix of the concert.  alot of times the instruments aren't being fed through both stacks so a stack humped tape will be lacking sound that should be on the tape.  i guess the advantage of stack humping is that the music will be extremely loud that close to the speakers which, in theory,  should produce a tape with less crowd noise.  i PERSONALLY think this is a shitty way to make a tape and you're probably more likely to be spotted by security since you're standing a couple of feet away from the stage security crew

I've made some of my best tapes that way...

[Brian Skalinder]

Stack-humping v. ambient recording is just a preference - there's no right or wrong here, as with much of our gear options / configs, etc.  I've heard great recordings from both scenarios.  Stack-humping recordings are very soundboard-like, and if the mix is mono (as many are) there's no worry of missing content from the other stack.  Ambient recordings give the feeling of "being there".  I mostly prefer the latter, even with PA recording.  But I've heard some smoker stack recordings, too.  Do what you like and, well...enjoy it. 

[terrapinj]

I DO WHAT I WANT BITCHES!

What Evah! 

[saxophoner]

so if you're gonna be stealth taping your best bet it prolly stack taping?  i figure the stereo microphones will pick up the noises i don't want to hear since they would only be head height and not extended above the crowd noise a few feet.
any takers

[terrapinj]

so if you're gonna be stealth taping your best bet it prolly stack taping?  i figure the sterio microphones will pick up the noises i don't want to hear since they would only be head height and not extended above the crowd noise a few feet.
any takers

Stack-humping v. ambient recording is just a preference - there's no right or wrong here