Topic: WHICH SUB AND WHY

[shayne]

Ok, I have little knowledge of playback right now I have a sony dvd player Yamaha reciever and polk lsi -7's  on speaker stands. I wish I new more about playback, but here is my use. I record to 16 bit and burn to cd for all shows I record. I knew nothing about the speakers I bought but did spend some time listening at tweeter before I bought. I am happy with the sound but was thinking of adding a sub to the mix for more bottom end. Looking for suggestions in the $300.00 - $500.00 range any and all help or suggestions welcome.
Shayne

[sygdwm]

velodyne. why? cause they pwnz joo.

http://www.amazon.com/Velodyne-VX-10-Subwoofer-100-Watt/dp/B00009L1V7

[Javier Cinakowski]

I have that Velodyne hooked up in my basement.  It is ok.

Why not stick with polk?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_e?url=search-alias%3Delectronics&field-keywords=polk+psw12

I personally am in love with Tannoy speakers, but that is out of your price range, unless you can tolerate a 10" used sub...

[Todd R]

Pinnacle Babyboomer:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/478/bigger-better-bass-page9.html

This is what I've been running for 5 or 6 years now.  Not earth shattering bass, but very good, very tight.

Why the babyboomer:

It is very small -- 10"x10"x10" - excellent wife-acceptance-factor
It is very small -- makes placement much easier, so less likely to make compromises in sub placement
It is very small -- uses 8" woofers, the lower mass woofers respond quicker, making tighter, less sloppy bass
It is very small -- and to do this it uses two 8" woofers in a bi-polar arrangement, with each driver out of phase with the other.  So when one woofer moves outward, the other woofer moves inward.  This again allows very fast respond time and also allows the sub to be built in a sealed box, not ported, which makes for a tighter sound.

This sub does ok at home theater, but it excels at music.  Meaning, repeating the points above, it is not designed for earth-shattering, huge, rumbling bass like many get for HT.  But it is very fast, tight, and musical and it integrates very well with your L-R speakers (again because its design elements make for a fast responsive bass that doesn't start lagging the response of your 2ch speakers).

I just did a quick search to be sure it was still being sold, and came across this place that has it for <$500 new (which is what I paid for mine).

http://www.parkaveelectronics.com/product.asp?id=PINBABYBOOMER&l=sitemap

I may have even bought mine from this place.  I can't really remember, but the name sounds familiar.

[Tim]

Pinnacle Babyboomer:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/speakers/478/bigger-better-bass-page9.html

This is what I've been running for 5 or 6 years now.  Not earth shattering bass, but very good, very tight.

Why the babyboomer:

It is very small -- 10"x10"x10" - excellent wife-acceptance-factor
It is very small -- makes placement much easier, so less likely to make compromises in sub placement
It is very small -- uses 8" woofers, the lower mass woofers respond quicker, making tighter, less sloppy bass
It is very small -- and to do this it uses two 8" woofers in a bi-polar arrangement, with each driver out of phase with the other.  So when one woofer moves outward, the other woofer moves inward.  This again allows very fast respond time and also allows the sub to be built in a sealed box, not ported, which makes for a tighter sound.

This sub does ok at home theater, but it excels at music.  Meaning, repeating the points above, it is not designed for earth-shattering, huge, rumbling bass like many get for HT.  But it is very fast, tight, and musical and it integrates very well with your L-R speakers (again because its design elements make for a fast responsive bass that doesn't start lagging the response of your 2ch speakers).

I just did a quick search to be sure it was still being sold, and came across this place that has it for <$500 new (which is what I paid for mine).

http://www.parkaveelectronics.com/product.asp?id=PINBABYBOOMER&l=sitemap

I may have even bought mine from this place.  I can't really remember, but the name sounds familiar.

what he said

Todd and I have talked about subs a few times and I think we both agree that many (most?) subs are not quick enough to keep up with many speakers and are best when they are used sparingly. less is more with a sub imo

[Brian Skalinder]

I third the Babyboomer recommendation.  I picked it up a few (more?) years ago based on Todd R's recommendation, I think, and couldn't be happier.  Mine's not hooked up right now - forgot to put it back in the chain after upgrading my mains to VR-2s - but I've used it with both Maggie MMGs and Von Schweikert VR-1s.  As already noted:  very musical, nice and fast, and it integrated well with both sets of speakers.  For music, I found I kept the volume on mine quite low - just enough to reinforce without becoming overbearing.  (I assume this is the case with any sub when using it for music.)  I knew I had it right when I couldn't tell the sub was there, but missed it when I turned it off.  The sub level relative to the mains varied depending on the type of music and source, but was easy to adjust.  Took a wee bit of practice to figure out where I liked it depending on the music, but the learning curve was fast.

[Javier Cinakowski]

I love Pinnacle.  I have 5 of the Audio Cinema Series speakers. I am just not a fan of small subs

The small subwoofer is nice for accuracy, clarity and speed, but for SPL, impact and sub 35hz, the 12" is the way to go.

My opinion is that your main speakers should extend down to 50-60hz...  The fronts with good amplification will give you the speed, clarity and acurate bass.  Also,the bass originating from both speakers with give better coverage and create less room modes..  A subwoofer should only be used for the lowest of frequencies that your speakers cannot produce.  A small subwoofers best frequency range can already be produced by most speakers.  For really small main or satelite speakers I could see using a small subwoofer for the upper bass frequencies.  In this situation I would also have a large subwoofer for the sub 40hz or LFE..

I don't see any reason to have a sub/bass management crossover set higher than 80hz, unless the front speakers suck...  ( I use 50hz on my crossover)


I am a big fan of accurate bass, but if my subwoofer can't extened low enough to bounce air off of my chest, I am not thrilled....

[shayne]

Thanks for all the suggetions, it definatley narrows the field, the baby boomer sounds nice, is at the high end of what I want to spend though and I may wait to purchase it. I also want  to go to tweeter and listen to the polk dsw 400 pro 8" sub that can be purhcased for around $350 I think smaller is what I am looking for I don't like thunder like base, and even though my tv is connected through my system the main point of the system was for music thanks for all the help +T's allaround.
Shayne

[som]

I have this:

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/stf-1.html

I used it for music playback for a couple of years and it was fine. It's just for home theatre now, and it does fine there as well.

I'm not a bass fiend, but do like the bottom end filled in a bit. This has more than fit the bill.

[BC]

FWIW I think a good feature on subs is some kind of bass measurement/equalization functions, as there is usually a dominant room mode that colors the sound.

I have an infinity CSW10 that has what Infinity calls RABOS (Room-adaptive bass optimization system). The sub includes a measurement mic and you can tune the sub to smooth out the in-room response. I think similar types of products are available from other sub manufacturers.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

depends on what you want.  I have a vandersteen sub.  The design is a bit different than most subs.  Instead of one large cone it uses three smaller cones that sum to the same amount of air pushed as a 15" cone.  It is intended to be very tight and responsive, according to them more appropriate for music than HT.

We have one of the top velodyne subs in our board room/demo room at work.  It's very expensive and has a lot of features.  It is not properly calibrated but it's close.  I can hear a difference between that and the vandy at 1/3 the price. 

I prefer the vandy in mu stereo system.  If I was into explosions and dinosaur foot steps, I'd get the velodyne for HT.

[sygdwm]

my velodyne is tuned/used for music. i have to turn it almost off for tv/movies or it will blow out my windows.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Did you do the calibration with the mic and all that or tune it by ear?

We have one of the DD15 boxes at work.  I have heard the top end one in a home installation with BW802Ns.  Both systems sound good, but the unit we have at the office just sounds a little loose sometimes and it bugs me even though no one else seems to hear it.  Its probably bad tuning and I think they did a half assed job setting up the room since it doubles as a test lab right now

My opinion is that you shouldn't hear a sub, it should just reenforce the range below the main speakers seamlessly.  The vandy integrates using a HPF to the mains so that the mains rolloff with a slope inverse to the slope of the sub.  It's a good match.  The only other time (in my limited experience) that I've heard a home system that mated better was the velodyne and 802Ns and that was through a high end preprocessor with 7.1ch analysis with all kinds of correction using DSPs.  In that system you can't hear the sub at all as a seperate source.  I know the guy took the time to do it right in that room.

I mentioned the vandy just because it integrates so well in a simple 2ch system and the 2W can be found in the price range.  With the filters you really can't screw up the integration.  I looked on agon but no one seems to be getting rid of theirs right now.  I'd buy a second matching 2Wq in a heartbeat if I had the room for it.

[sygdwm]

yeah i did the little microphone thingy, but my ears had the final say. i was suggesting the lower model that was well within his budget.