Topic: why should I get an ipod over a...

[scb]

What I would love is a portable player that also has a digital out so I could use it as part of my home system too. Then I'd want FLAC. The only reason it'd be any good for me now is convenience, but you're right, batch conversion isn't that hard.

if it's part of your home system, why does it need to be portable?

in my opinion, the only thing flac gets you on a portable player with 1/8 inch out for headphones is a player that fills the drive or flash faster...

[OFOTD]

Hmmmm...maybe I should buy a new car so I can actually take advantage of the iPod hooking up to the stereo system...   

WiFi will be great.  Imagine never having to take it out of your car.

Eh.  Then I'd have to buy a 2nd one for use on the train, plane, bike, etc.

Oh and they just feel solid unlike most of the iRiver and Creative players.  Those all feel like cheap, think plastic to me.

The iPod definitely scores big points on manufacturing fit and finish.  Though the iAudio gear is just as good, IMO, most of the other options also feel cheap to me.

iTunes is not my favorite but it works well.  Personally I use SharePod which makes it super, super easy to transfer tunes back and forth.

Same questions as I had for Ed:

• Isn't transferring music to the player simply a file transfer (i.e. something I can do via Windows Explorer or other equivalent app in Mac/Linux)?
• Is there really a need for 3rd party s/w to do so?
• Or are you using 3rd party apps to manage your music collection, too?
• And couldn't one simply use those 3rd party tools (for whatever purpose you're using them) with other PMPs, or are they specific to the iPod?  (sounds like SharePod is specific to the iPod)

Now about the FLAC <> MP3 debate.  Where or when are you ever going to listen to a portable music player with most likely inexpensive headphones for your critical listening? Really?   I set up a bunch of FLAC to batch process with dbpoweramp, leave it and go.

Great point.  And dBPowerAmp is a fantastic tool.

There is a reason why its the top seller in the US and probably the world.

And the movie Independence Day was a HUGELY popular, but not because it was actually any good. 

I think perhaps my requirements and usage just aren't a good map to the iPod, since a lot of the things people rave about I couldn't care less about.  This is going to require a bit more research than I initially expected...

1. WiFi was just an example.  The Ipod is not permanently fixed into the car.  Typically but not always its it the glove box or a center console or for me its in a cup holder.  So portability is in no way affected.  I just have a few of them and one stays in my car at all times.

2.  I believe the quality, fit and finish of the Ipod is heads and shoulders above any other offering in the category.

3. 
   a. You do need software to transfer back and forth.  iTunes is standard and easy.  SharePod is for a more advanced user.   
   b. 3rd party is not necessary.  Its sort of like do you like Outlook or Thunderbird.  Outlook came with Windows  and works great but you may prefer Thunderbird.
   c. iTunes will manage you music collection really nice.  I use Windows Media Center 2005 to manage all my multimedia but would use iTunes if I didn't use MCE2005
   d. Yes there are Ipod specific programs.  SharePod is one of them.  There are tons of them I just happen to like SharePod

4. dbpoweramp rocks!

5. I get the ID4 reference but its not really a good example, IMO.   I believe that typically in consumer electronics that the best usually does win out.  Beta being the exception.  In the world of portable music specific players the Ipod is on tops because it really is that much better.  Maybe an example would be Microsoft and Linux.  Lots of people just hate Microsoft because they view them as the big bad M$ so they go to Linux just so they don't have to use M$.  Is Linux really better or in the same league as Microsoft?  Maybe in some applications but that segment is so small it doesn't make a big difference.

One thing I will tell you about the Ipod is that it relies on metatags.  If your files have tags it is the greatest thing ever.  If they don't it becomes unorganized.  But thats where iTunes helps.  It can help put tags on and organize things.  Good stuff.

Also you have so many ways to connect your Ipod.  In your car you can runa hard wire, use an FM modulator, cassette adapter.  At home you can get an RCA out put for your home stereo that plugs into the Ipod.  All sorts of options.

One of my favorite sites is  http://www.ilounge.com/    Scott may have a better one but this one is pretty diverse with all things Ipod.

Things again get back to critical listening.  Do you want a portable player or a critical listening device?

[Ed.]

to answer a couple of the questions...

I use anapod explorer, made by redchair...the same people that make notmad explorer.  I've honestly never used itunes, but the whole interface seems clunky to me.  Anapod explorer is very neat and keeps things very tidy.  It allows me to upload vids, photos, and mp3s by just drag/dropping.  With the ipod video, you can do album art too, which it can download from amazon for you if you'd like.  I use Tag & Rename too, for tagging.  When I do that it makes an album art file in the folder with the files - folder.jpg.  Anapod Explorer will automatically associate that with the mp3s.  You can also drag in any picture to associate with files.  So if its live stuff, you can still have a picture there.  Ok, ok, so you don't really need album art, but I still think it looks cool, and its easy as hell to add.

I also have sharepod installed so i can use my ipod on any computer and access its files.  no need to install itunes or whatever on the computer, sharepod runs right off the ipod.

I wanted to go video, not that i'd use it all that much, but still the option is nice.  Theres nice programs out there that convert the video (divx, xvid, dvd, etc) to ipod video.  I know some other mp3/video players can play the divx, xvid, etc files without the conversion, but i've also read that they don't always work and sometimes there are sync issues.

As for accessories.  The ipod comes with earbuds, a cheap leathery slip cover, and the usb cable.  I had to buy a car charger and wall charger.  I didn't really need these, but I found them on the net for $5 shipped.  Not bad at all.  I also bought a nice clear plastic cover for it with belt clip and whatnot for around $10.  That way the ipod stays finger print free and safe and secure.

as for flac...i think they have the 3rd generation ipods running linux, i think they're still working on the 4th and 5th ones.  Within linux the ipod opens up even more and they are working on flac support.  so theres hope.  plus if you install linux, you can still dual boot or whatever, and have the option of going to the normal ipod bios or the linux bios at startup.  Eventhough the ipod video isn't implemented in all the fun yet, it will be in time.

overall though, the ipod has the best form factor and looks the slickest out of all the ones i looked at.  and its small as hell.  as for the car, my receiver has an aux in on the front that works perfect for all of my needs.

[dnsacks]

Brian:

The one big advantage my Iaudio m3 has over the ipod is my ability to play/transfer music to/from my m3 without the use of third party applications.  The ipod does not store songs in the same flle/directory structure that the m3 uses.  You MUST transfer tunes to the ipod using third party (non-native windows) applications.  Opening the ipod from within windows explorer reveals a confusing mishmash of files. 

Further, itunes does not allow one to copy files from the ipod to your computer.  You need to use third party programs to do this. 

For MY needs, having a portable way to listen to my flac-based music archive, the iaudio m3 can't be beat -- I simply transfer directories of flacs directly to the m3 and the music's immediately playable.  If I want to compress the flacs to smaller format (mp3 or ogg), I simply search the m3 for "*.flac" and have dbpoweramp convert the flacs to mp3.  Further, since the m3 doesn't RELY on id3 tags to organize identify tunes (its display shows file and directory names if id3 tags aren't included), I never have to rename files/add ID3 tags.

I can similarly share my flac-based music with my wife's ipod, but this requires a few more steps (namely convert flac to mp3, open the mp3 in foobar2000 to add ID3 tags) and then drag/drop the files into the ipod via itunes.

No doubt that the ipod is nice, but for me the iaudio m3 is better . . . . and their customer support has been first-rate for me.

[Ed.]

whatever mpm you get, i'd highly suggest looking at Tag & Rename - quite possibly the best tagging program I've ever used and its so damn simple.  Just a few clicks and you can have your whole mp3 collection tagged in seconds.

another cool thing about the ipod, if you're a student, you get a discount.

[Brian Skalinder]

no.  the ipod doesn't just look in a directory to see what files are there.  it has library files in XML that describe everything on the ipod, so it can be sorted by album, playlist, genre, etc.  copying a file into one of the music directories won't do anything.  the ipod won't see the song unless the file is added to its library

Ahhh...gotcha.  That makes sense.  I think I just have very limited requirements and specific listening habits that simply don't get me all hot and bothered about the iPod.  I already use Foobar to manage my audio on my PC, never been much of a 'mix tape' guy (and by extension playlist), already know all the genres of the music to which I listen, etc. 

to answer a couple of the questions...

Thanks, Ed, very helpful.

The one big advantage my Iaudio m3 has over the ipod is my ability to play/transfer music to/from my m3 without the use of third party applications.  Opening the ipod from within windows explorer reveals a confusing mishmash of files.

Further, itunes does not allow one to copy files from the ipod to your computer.  You need to use third party programs to do this.

That's one of the features I love about my M3 (and soon to be Jen's), also.

For MY needs, having a portable way to listen to my flac-based music archive, the iaudio m3 can't be beat -- I simply transfer directories of flacs directly to the m3 and the music's immediately playable.  If I want to compress the flacs to smaller format (mp3 or ogg), I simply search the m3 for "*.flac" and have dbpoweramp convert the flacs to mp3.  Further, since the m3 doesn't RELY on id3 tags to organize identify tunes (its display shows file and directory names if id3 tags aren't included), I never have to rename files/add ID3 tags.

All reasons I, too, love my M3.  Sounds like our needs are very similar.  In fact, it was your postings here on TS that originally turned me onto my M3. 

and their customer support has been first-rate for me.

Great to hear.  I've not had any cause for customer support yet, but good to know you've had positive experiences.

Thanks for the input, everyone (and sorry for the thread hijack, Gordon, but hopefully the discussion's helped you, as well).  This has been a great learning experience for me since I didn't really know much about the iPod .  I think it basically boils down to the fact that MY needs are relatively simple and as such the additional features (and in some cases "features") people love about the iPod simply aren't a fit for me.  Think I'll see if I can pick up another M3 on the new or used market, or maybe an M5.

[scb]

i just love that my nano is absoutely tiny.  that's the "feature" that sold me

[neutrino]

I picked up a 30gig Ipod just after Christmas and just recently interfaced it with a new Alpine car stereo. The interface attached to the back of the alpine via a dongle and then enters into a cubby hole in my dash which stores the Ipod. The Alpine also charges the Ipod as it plugs directly into the Ipod interface and not the analog out. My commutes have gotten much more tolerable now that I don't have to listen to bad Chicago radio...
dB-

[NotSoBlüe]

I've had 2 iPODS and wont buy another. They are basically disposable. Both of mine lasted just over a year. The batteries go quickly (depending on how much you use it) -- but you can replace the battery evidently. I sent mine back to IPOD and for something like $120 (conveniently the battery died just as it was out of warranty) they sent me a 'brand new' one. The replacement lasted 1 year and the hard drive just died. And the replacement didnt have a year warranty on it. If you get an IPOD - get it from Circuit City and buy their protection policy. They'll explain it to you but basically its like $60 for 2 years or more and they'll just give you a new one when yours dies. Which it most likely will. I miss my IPOD cuz it was easy but they're too expensive to be disposable. I have an iRiver H120 now which I like, but its not nearly as user friendly. But put the Rockbox firmware on it and it records...

edit: many car stereos have aux in jacks - my new Sony has a jack right on the front so I can plug my iRiver in.

[Will_S]

It seems like I'm in the same boat Brian. One other thing for consideration is that I believe the iPod does not have gapless playback. Can anyone chime in here?

The iPod does NOT have gapless playback.  Also some older models, e.g. the iPod mini, had problems with certain variable bit rate MP3 files, including (somtimes) those produced by LAME's alt-preset-standard.  If there was too big a jump in bitrate, the processor (which had been put into a power saving mode) couldn't quite keep up, and their would be a stuttering or skipping effect.  My understanding is this problem does not exist in the new iPod, and there were workoarounds for older ones.

[scb]

I've had 2 iPODS and wont buy another. They are basically disposable. Both of mine lasted just over a year. The batteries go quickly (depending on how much you use it) -- but you can replace the battery evidently. I sent mine back to IPOD and for something like $120

you could have replaced the battery yourself for 29.95

If you get an IPOD - get it from Circuit City and buy their protection policy. They'll explain it to you but basically its like $60 for 2 years or more and they'll just give you a new one when yours dies. Which it most likely will.

i've had a GEN 1 ipod, a first generation mini and now a nano.  never had a problem with any (i replaced the battery in the 1st gen for 30 bucks thoguh after about 2 years). i got my girlfriend a first gen mini and it's still going strong.  my mom has a green mini, brother had a 2nd gen (which was later stolen) and now has a video, my older sister has a 3rd gen and my younger sister had a 3rd gen and now has a video.  the only problem any of us ever had (besides my brother getting his stolen) was when my sister dropped her 3rd gen from 6 feet onto concrete.  the drive died, which wasn't any surprise from that fall

so that's 10 ipods in my family and no problems.  you had 1 have a drive die.  that sucks, but it certainly doesn't mean all ipods will die and are "disposable"

[johnw]

The only problem I have with my ipod is the lack of gapless playback. Not a huge deal since I have mine mostly filled with studio albums. Plus there is working version of Rockbox for the ipod and while it doesn't support gapless playback yet, it most likely will be soon. Unless Apple sues them to stop distribution. 

[Gordon]

thanks for all the feedback guys.  really thinking about a iriver as they play flac/shn and are gapless.  not sure though and it'll be a while before I can do it anyway.

[Gordon]

so I was looking into the iriver hp120 or 140.  only one place to buy them new anymore.  still looking into the zen as well.  I assume they have gapless playback?

[George]

so I was looking into the iriver hp120 or 140.  only one place to buy them new anymore.  still looking into the zen as well.  I assume they have gapless playback?

I don't think the creative stuff is gapless, but its close.  How much do they want new for the iRivers?  FWIW, I paid $500 for my H140 new, was it a lot of money?  Hell yeah, but it was worth it and it sold for $400 when it was in production.