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Author Topic: Zero bit recording  (Read 36807 times)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2024, 10:10:38 AM »
On the tape flip-

The home deck I used extensively in the 80's and 90's was a Yamaha K720.  Loved it, still have it.  Made many, many mix-tapes on that thing, using some great features which also applied to live recording, but I only ever hauled it out to tape a live band once.  Story on that in a bit. One of the features that enabled many others was a function that sensed start/end of the leader at both ends of the tape.  One function that used that was a tape counter-calibration thing - you'd push a button and the deck would fast forward until it sensed the tail lead-out, the counter would reset to zero, then the deck would rewind to either the precise start of tape at the end of the head lead-in, or to whatever mid-reel position the tape was in when the function was engaged.  It would then display a super-accurate countdown to the precise end of the tape.  Additionally, it could be set to auto-fade-out about a second prior to reaching the end, stop, or auto-reverse with a gap of just milliseconds.  The super quick auto-reverse was made possible by the tail-lead sensor, which would engage immediately as soon as the tail-lead out was sensed just prior to the leader actually reaching the heads.  Cool stuff, and when enabled, the auto-reverse actually tracked really well on that deck.  Combined with a couple other playback decks and a CD player that had a "search for and loop the highest peak" function, it was a mix-tape making dream.

I only once hauled it out to record a live band, 1987-ish.  More often back then I was doing my own 4track stuff or recording bands in non-live situations using the 4track, mixing that down to this deck.  The one time I did was to record a live show off a friend's band.  I unwrapped a fresh XLIIS, plugged in a couple SM57's, set levels, engaged the DBX noise reduction I otherwise rarely used, had it do the FFW to end counter-reset thing, set it to auto reverse at the end of side A and not fade-out at the end of side B.  I still recall the anticipation watching the counter count down approaching zero with my finger hovering over the "reverse" button awaiting the end of a song, but not actually pushing the button and watching the auto-reverse happen just after the song ended only a few seconds before they launched into the next.  I then relaxed and enjoyed the rest of their set.  At the end of the set I just let it run and it auto-faded out about 5 min later.  Serendipitous.  Listening later with the band, playing back the master using the same deck, I intentionally didn't mention the approaching auto-flip in the tiny gap between songs and it occurred so quickly that only one of the guys noticed the brief dropout.  I think it was actually the noise of the transport reversing that called his attention to it.  Amazed, we ended up listening the to flip a few times over.

Different era, different gear, different feel and approach, and the taper's connection to making the recording is different.  Even though I'd not want to reverse the evolution of digital recording making it so much easier, better, and more cost-effective, mechanical analog recording was and remains cool.  Even cooler now that its no longer the norm. 

Enjoy the little vacation from digital. That Blues Traveler / Big Head Todd double bill seems a perfect match for it. Good strategy to use tape 1 side A + tape 2 side A for band 1 and side B for band 2, rewinding the side B's at set break.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline goodcooker

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Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2024, 05:38:27 PM »
Sweet!  I can almost smell those XLII's.

Savor the build up of internal drama in anticipation of the retro tape flip!

I am weirdly anxious about this already and the show is three weeks away.
I might do the tape 1 side A + tape 2 side A for band 1 and side B for band 2. That way you don't have to furiously rewind and restart tape 1 side B you swap instead of flip. Rewind side B at set break if needed.

But yeah, I'm going to be nervous about it and my GF will find no end of poking fun at me for it. Running the A10 off the line out as a backup/patch source in case I run out of tape or screw up.

If I had a reliable source of good cassettes I’d consider running a pmd-430 again. I pulled some heat on that deck back in the day.

I buy used once cassettes at the local record store for $1 each for fooling around with. For NOS there's always ebay and Reverb if you don't mind paying $4-5 each. I bought the 5 pack of Maxells for $18 and $5 shipping.
I'd go with the Side A + Side A for band 1. We used to call that the "California method" because many of us tapers on the East coast had never seen anyone do that until 1984/85 when some of us went west. iirc, it was the Poris-Olness crew who got us into that. If you know there is a set break it is the best bet as you can rewind to the beginning of Side B of each tape between bands/sets
« Last Edit: July 26, 2024, 12:17:05 AM by rocksuitcase »
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Offline Chilly Brioschi

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2024, 05:55:34 PM »
If you can find a Cristal clear plastic BIC pen, it allows a manual rewind (or FF) on Tape 1 whilst Tape 2 runs it's 46 minutes...



Our theory was that BIC had tapers in their engineering dept.   :)

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2024, 06:25:37 PM »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline unidentified

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2024, 07:28:39 PM »
Sweet!  I can almost smell those XLII's.

Savor the build up of internal drama in anticipation of the retro tape flip!

I am weirdly anxious about this already and the show is three weeks away.
I might do the tape 1 side A + tape 2 side A for band 1 and side B for band 2. That way you don't have to furiously rewind and restart tape 1 side B you swap instead of flip. Rewind side B at set break if needed.

But yeah, I'm going to be nervous about it and my GF will find no end of poking fun at me for it. Running the A10 off the line out as a backup/patch source in case I run out of tape or screw up.

If I had a reliable source of good cassettes I’d consider running a pmd-430 again. I pulled some heat on that deck back in the day.

I buy used once cassettes at the local record store for $1 each for fooling around with. For NOS there's always ebay and Reverb if you don't mind paying $4-5 each. I bought the 5 pack of Maxells for $18 and $5 shipping.
I'd go with the Aide A + Side A for band 1. We used to call that the "California method" because many of us tapers on the East coast had never seen anyone do that until 1984/85 when some of us went west. iirc, it was the Poris-Olness crew who got us into that. If you know there is a set break it is the best bet as you can rewind to the beginning of Side B of each tape between bands/sets

That's funny!  I came up with this method for myself on the East coast back in the 1970s.  I also used to put a small tab of Scotch tape with a little fold in it on the A side of cassettes so I could easily orient them in the dark.  I'd record the A side of the second cassette after the A side of the first cassette and then switch to the B side of the first cassette -- after winding it manually to the beginning of the actual magnetic tape on the B side.  How I miss those da...no, actually, I do not. 

Offline grawk

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2024, 07:37:13 PM »
It did add a lot more drama to taping. I enjoy set and forget now, where I can just hit record and then 18 hrs later hit stop.  But I have way more nostalgia for cassette than dat. If I never see another dat tape, that’s ok by me.
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Offline unidentified

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2024, 07:58:05 PM »
It did add a lot more drama to taping. I enjoy set and forget now, where I can just hit record and then 18 hrs later hit stop.  But I have way more nostalgia for cassette than dat. If I never see another dat tape, that’s ok by me.

I somehow skipped digital audio tape all together and went straight from cassettes to mini discs briefly and then on to IRivers. I think I lucked out.

Offline rocksuitcase

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2024, 12:16:13 AM »
Sweet!  I can almost smell those XLII's.

Savor the build up of internal drama in anticipation of the retro tape flip!

I am weirdly anxious about this already and the show is three weeks away.
I might do the tape 1 side A + tape 2 side A for band 1 and side B for band 2. That way you don't have to furiously rewind and restart tape 1 side B you swap instead of flip. Rewind side B at set break if needed.

But yeah, I'm going to be nervous about it and my GF will find no end of poking fun at me for it. Running the A10 off the line out as a backup/patch source in case I run out of tape or screw up.

If I had a reliable source of good cassettes I’d consider running a pmd-430 again. I pulled some heat on that deck back in the day.

I buy used once cassettes at the local record store for $1 each for fooling around with. For NOS there's always ebay and Reverb if you don't mind paying $4-5 each. I bought the 5 pack of Maxells for $18 and $5 shipping.
I'd go with the Aide A + Side A for band 1. We used to call that the "California method" because many of us tapers on the East coast had never seen anyone do that until 1984/85 when some of us went west. iirc, it was the Poris-Olness crew who got us into that. If you know there is a set break it is the best bet as you can rewind to the beginning of Side B of each tape between bands/sets

That's funny!  I came up with this method for myself on the East coast back in the 1970s.  I also used to put a small tab of Scotch tape with a little fold in it on the A side of cassettes so I could easily orient them in the dark.  I'd record the A side of the second cassette after the A side of the first cassette and then switch to the B side of the first cassette -- after winding it manually to the beginning of the actual magnetic tape on the B side.  How I miss those da...no, actually, I do not.
lol     i do not miss them either     +T >:D
music IS love

When you get confused, listen to the music play!

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Online tim in jersey

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2024, 01:58:14 AM »
As of about 10 or 15 years ago I used to tape FOB with a dude that ran inter-leaved Uher reels. Had to thread them about every 15 minutes. And juggle D cells between 2 decks, *and* the custom mic splitter he built to feed both decks circa 1976. And I've run outdoors in the rain with him. It was a sight to behold.

Offline Chilly Brioschi

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2024, 08:46:30 AM »
As of about 10 or 15 years ago I used to tape FOB with a dude that ran inter-leaved Uher reels. Had to thread them about every 15 minutes. And juggle D cells between 2 decks, *and* the custom mic splitter he built to feed both decks circa 1976. And I've run outdoors in the rain with him. It was a sight to behold.


We need to create an award system for acts of taping heroism!
"Peace is for everyone"
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2024, 09:28:12 AM »
As of about 10 or 15 years ago I used to tape FOB with a dude that ran inter-leaved Uher reels. Had to thread them about every 15 minutes. And juggle D cells between 2 decks, *and* the custom mic splitter he built to feed both decks circa 1976. And I've run outdoors in the rain with him. It was a sight to behold.
We need to create an award system for acts of taping heroism!

Outdoors in the rain! That's Hall of Fame worthy.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline goodcooker

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2024, 09:48:55 AM »
As of about 10 or 15 years ago I used to tape FOB with a dude that ran inter-leaved Uher reels. Had to thread them about every 15 minutes. And juggle D cells between 2 decks, *and* the custom mic splitter he built to feed both decks circa 1976. And I've run outdoors in the rain with him. It was a sight to behold.

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Him - "A Railroad Earth show"
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Online tim in jersey

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2024, 05:07:14 PM »
^Yup.

Offline Scooter123

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Re: Zero bit recording
« Reply #29 on: July 27, 2024, 02:08:27 PM »
Before there were cassettes, people smuggled in reel to reel recorders.

One of the most compact was the Nagra SN, originally ordered by the CIA and later used by Israel's Mossad, and of course one could purchase it and use to record shows, as it used both dynamic and condenser mikes.

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