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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: drewski1972 on March 02, 2023, 10:08:54 AM
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Hi, I was wondering how modern digital recorders(,in the $300 range,)[like tascam dr70, or zoom F3] compair to good cassette recorders used in the 1980s ? I have heard some very good recordings of concerts done with cassettes and I was wondering if the semi cheap ($300) digital recorders could make a comparable recording, using decent microphones.
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Modern digital recorders run circles even around professional open-reel tape recorders formerly used in broadcasting and recording studios.
My MOTU traveler audio interface hooked up to my Mac computer has more and better functions and much higher audio quality than the big outside broadcast van I used to work in in the late 1970s.
Ralf
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What Ralf said. For the most part, in terms of sound quality, a modern digital recorder will faithfully reproduce whatever you feed into it. It's all about the stuff you feed into it that really counts.
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There are tape machine plugins and preamp plugins that you can use on your digital recordings if you are looking for some of that analog vibe.
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Or, if really enamored by analog cassette mystique, record the show with far less hassle to a digital recorder, then once home, dub the output from it to cassette. Instant hipster retro!
Extra credit for recording the cassette output back to the same digital recorder again, transferring both files to the computer, aligning, playing back both mixed together with polarity flipped on one of them and level adjusted so as to achieve as deep a cancellation between the two as possible.. and grooving out to the difference signal, which will be the distilled essence of what the cassette tape is doing to the sound.
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Extra credit for recording the cassette output back to the same digital recorder again, transferring both files to the computer, aligning, playing back both mixed together with polarity flipped on one of them and level adjusted so as to achieve as deep a cancellation between the two as possible.. and grooving out to the difference signal, which will be the distilled essence of what the cassette tape is doing to the sound.
Reminds me of this:
https://www.theghostinthemp3.com/theghostinthemp3.html (https://www.theghostinthemp3.com/theghostinthemp3.html)
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Art from mp3 garbage! Thanks for that.
Pretty sad how the mp3 monster escaped from its intended pen and took over the world by being essentially first to market. If only the world had waited a bit longer for something better to fill that role, or better.. a few years longer still for cheap enough storage and bandwidth for lossless.
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But isn't so much easier to carry around a Nak 550 or a portable Nagra R2R for the field recordings?
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Art from mp3 garbage! Thanks for that.
Pretty sad how the mp3 monster escaped from its intended pen and took over the world by being essentially first to market. If only the world had waited a bit longer for something better to fill that role, or better.. a few years longer still for cheap enough storage and bandwidth for lossless.
Definitely. Or even wait for better mp3 codecs, because some of the early ones (and AAC for that matter) sounded really harsh. When I used to share mp3 CD rips with people, they always commented on my files sounding better than iTunes, etc. That's probably because I used LAME from its early days.
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Or, if really enamored by analog cassette mystique, record the show with far less hassle to a digital recorder, then once home, dub the output from it to cassette. Instant hipster retro!
Extra credit for recording the cassette output back to the same digital recorder again, transferring both files to the computer, aligning, playing back both mixed together with polarity flipped on one of them and level adjusted so as to achieve as deep a cancellation between the two as possible.. and grooving out to the difference signal, which will be the distilled essence of what the cassette tape is doing to the sound.
LOL: Laugh out loud, loudly.
That bout of laughter was a heck of a thing!
Thanks for the idea. I got that hot nak 582 that is set up perfectly to record. Now I FINALLY have a ... "reason" to do so, heh!
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But isn't so much easier to carry around a Nak 550 or a portable Nagra R2R for the field recordings?
>:D
Even though I have done both of those things, I can attest the modern digital recorders are much better for pure S/N and ease of use. As has been said, what then matters is the quality of mic and pre-amp signals.
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[snip]..modern digital recorders are much better for pure S/N.. [snip]
To quantify it, cassettes have a real-world equivalent S/N of about 6bits, no better than 9 in a perfect scenario!
https://youtu.be/cIQ9IXSUzuM?t=650
^That entire video is an excellent primer on how digital audio works.
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But isn't so much easier to carry around a Nak 550 or a portable Nagra R2R for the field recordings?
>:D
Even though I have done both of those things, I can attest the modern digital recorders are much better for pure S/N and ease of use. As has been said, what then matters is the quality of mic and pre-amp signals.
Absolutely agree. Not sure we would be doing much non open taping with current security and old technology recording devices as well.
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Thanks to everyone for the excellent replies. So it seems even a digital recorder in the cheap rang [with good external mics] is comparable to a cassette recorder. I'll be recording nature [rain, thunder, forest, ocean waves, ect.]. I also play guitar and percussion, so I'll be recording them too. I'm considering buying the Tascam Dr 70 or the Tascam dp 03 SD both are the same price.
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Thanks to everyone for the excellent replies. So it seems even a digital recorder in the cheap rang [with good external mics] is compatible to a cassette recorder. I'll be recording nature [rain, thunder, forest, ocean waves, ect.]. I also play guitar and percussion, so I'll be recording them too. I'm considering buying the Tascam Dr 70 or the Tascam dp 03 SD both are the same price.
As a former DR-70D owner, I wouldn't recommend it anymore, especially for nature recordings as the mic preamps are noisy at higher gain.
Get a Zoom F3 if you only need two channels. It has so many advantages that I won't get into here, but see the thread about it here:
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=198715.0 (https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=198715.0)
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^^ Kind of agree about the Tascam pres in general. I liked it fine for loud rock shows, but not the best performer for very quiet sources
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Thanks to everyone for the excellent replies. So it seems even a digital recorder in the cheap rang [with good external mics] is compatible to a cassette recorder. I'll be recording nature [rain, thunder, forest, ocean waves, ect.]. I also play guitar and percussion, so I'll be recording them too. I'm considering buying the Tascam Dr 70 or the Tascam dp 03 SD both are the same price.
Sorry, but as stated, most modern field recorders far outshine even the best cassette recorders. Not compatible.