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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: Swampy on September 24, 2003, 06:30:53 PM
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So, I have the oportunity to tape this local band that I really like, Monarch (www.monarchtheband.com, think Radiohead, Coldplay, Beck) But I need some help on how to do it. Ive attached a (terrable) drawing of their stage setup.
They run everything except for drums through the pa, but Im not too sure about bass, I think that it is not in the pa. With one recorder, Im gonna take a sbd patch, but Im not quite sure what to to with my mics (Ive got cards, and omnis) BTW, micing the drums is out of the question. Part of me thinks I should try onstage maybe xy, and part of me thinks maybe din like regular taping. I just really am having trouble because of their odd stage set up. THANKS FOR ANY IMPUT!!!!
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20 ft back, cards DIN......the drums will fill the room and you will pick up the vocals from the pa's
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I think the drums and bass might be a little distant if I do that though. I probably should have mentioned, they dont play huge shows, maybe about 50+ people...
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Another option is run your omni's, essentially in the middle of their setup, . Midway between the monitors left to right (or if that's too close to the drums, favor the keys side), and backed up far enough onto the stage to pick up the monitors. They need to hear their vocals, and you'll get 'em too from the monitors. MMW, albeit sans vocals, have done many onstage tapes that way, at least back in the day, with Earthworks omnis (they ran the mics facing left and right, with the capsule on one mic lined up with the back of the other mic)
C-----------
-----------C (with C being the capsule)
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Ya, thanks for the imput. Getting vox wont be a problem, Im gonna be recording the sbd seperatly, and then making a matrix in post. With the mics im just worried about getting the drums/bass/and a little crowd. Maybe I didnt phrase the question well. THANKS so far for the imput!!!!
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Anyone else?
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run a deck sbd, and mix it with i'd say omni's, if they're having a soundcheck go and walk around the stage and just find what you find the most pleasing mix from all the musicians. try different heights placements, but then run your omni's from there... thats my guess..
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Alex, if it was me, I'd utilize that Behringer mixer you have. Get direct feeds on the keys (in stereo if you have enough channels) and the bass and if there is a vocal sub mix on the main board utilize that. Mic the electric guitar separately with a cardioid. The drums are the hardest thing to get right. A minimalist set-up puting an omni on the beater side of the kick drum close to the snare and using a cardioid over top of the whole kit can sound good if you get the placement right. Mix in an audience mic and you could make a good recording.
If you can, get them to do a song. Then listen to your recording. Tweak things... then have them play again etc... until you get it right. If you don't have that luxury, mix on the fly through headphones. Stanley (Bear) Owsley made some very good recordings of the Grateful Dead using minimalist micing techniques in the yearly 1970's. Those recordings hold up very well against the elaborate multi-tracked recordings that are possible today. Sometimes less=more.
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amen.. what he said.. haha yea micing a set is the worst part.. we're always doin somthing new when we jam. yea, the kick is what you won't hear as well.. but we've had some decent sounding recordings from a mic on the kick, and 2 overheads... worked out pretty decent.
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Thanks guys... Im kind of looking for minimalism here though.
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I would do along the lines of what everyone has said. Use that mixer and run some stage omnis and then mix the SBD in with that. That would sound pretty phat. I know you dont want to make it too complicated, but if the drums and bass amp aren't mic'd you need something on stage. I've played small venues without drums mic'd and the recordings lose drums. If you had some cards and some omnis you could run a 4 mic mix with an SBD. Run the cards into beheringer and then run the omnis into the mixpad and then run the SBD into the behringer. that would be sweet. If you decide to run anything crazy and need something. Id be happy to send what you need cables etc. When you're done id like to hear a tape. good luck Alex
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hmm, I dunno what the sbd patch is worth with half the instruments not wired
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hmm, I dunno what the sbd patch is worth with half the instruments not wired
Why not have it anyway?
But I ended up not taking a patch last night because I got there late so I just ran xy and it came out great. Ill be taping them more so Ill get to experiment!
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hmm, I dunno what the sbd patch is worth with half the instruments not wired
Why not have it anyway?
But I ended up not taking a patch last night because I got there late so I just ran xy and it came out great. Ill be taping them more so Ill get to experiment!
Experiment. That is the key.
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+T fuer das experimentinnen
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Better yet...
Get there fairly early. Talk to the sound engineer. Ask to set up the following on stage:
1 or 2 of your cardioids as overheads on the drum set.
1 Cardioid (or, if the club has it, one of their kick-drum dynamic mics) on the kick drum.
1 dynamic mic (whatever the club has laying around) on the bass amp
Run them back through the snake to the board, and plug them in. Since the band doesn't want them run into the mix (for whatever reason, doesn't seem like it's a negative thing to have your bass and drums properly mixed, imho), ask the engineer to run them - and everything else on the board - to an extra AUX send on the board. Most club-level boards have at least 3 or 4 aux sends. Most small clubs will also have you sending monitor mixes via the aux mixes (the biggest pain in the ass in mixing in small clubs imho). This will let you build a custom mix for your taping without having to send the mix to the PA. This is very easy to do.
You could also throw some mics facing the crowd on either side of the stage, too -- it'll add some crowd. But, you won't get them in stereo unless you run them through your mixer.. the aux mix will be mono, unless you can spare two aux sends on the board, then you can technicall have things hard panned left/right.
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Thanks guys... Im kind of looking for minimalism here though.