Topic: not enough volume with mics > battery box > iRiver

[NOTHINGFAN]

Hi all,

Not sure exactly where this goes, but I set up my iRiver H120 to the settings in this thread, and my recordings come out really low.  Which isn't really a big problem, cause I just amplify the volume in Adobe Audition to my desired level.

I have a custom made battery box, with no gain on it, so I can't adjust it there.  Any of you have any idea on how my recordings can come out with a little more volume, and how I can adjust my iRiver to do so?

Hope this makes sense.  I'm very new at audio taping, so be gentle and be a little thorough, if possible.

Thanks in advance.

[adrianf74]

Hi all,

Not sure exactly where this goes, but I set up my iRiver H120 to the settings in this thread, and my recordings come out really low.  Which isn't really a big problem, cause I just amplify the volume in Adobe Audition to my desired level.

I have a custom made battery box, with no gain on it, so I can't adjust it there.  Any of you have any idea on how my recordings can come out with a little more volume, and how I can adjust my iRiver to do so?

Hope this makes sense.  I'm very new at audio taping, so be gentle and be a little thorough, if possible.

Thanks in advance.

Hmm... I've never run into the problem with my battery boxes in the past (core sound, giant squid or sound professionals) as I've always had good levels even a mile away.

Perhaps your battery box isn't providing enough juice.  You might want to invest in Chris Church (Church Audio)'s battery box or his pre-amp.  He'll be able to help you for certain.

[powermonkey]

The general rule of thumb, as far as I can tell, is battery box for very loud shows, to power your mics and allow them to deal with higher volumes, and preamp for quiet shows (or less loud shows) to provide more gain so you don't have to max your recorder's input (and the recorder's inherent noise).

I'll second the reccomendation for Chris Church's preamps. I've used one a couple of times and it was a fine piece of kit.

 

[NOTHINGFAN]

Awesome.  Thanks guys.  +T

[Liquid Drum]

Your best bet is to turn up the gain on your Iriver. Play around until you are happy with the settings. You should easily be able to get good levels without turning up the gain too much.

[rastasean]

I've been using the AT 831 mics with my h120 and notice I have to raise the gain up to around 20 dB in order for anything to be audible since I'm not recording music. This is no problem but I am also going to be investing in Chris Church's 9100 preamp/battery box so I'll be able to record loud shows.

On the side, when I have the same mics plugged into my sony minidisc recorder, everything records fine, even under automatic gain control. Maybe the iriver just can't power many mics like my minidisc recorder.

[Sunday Driver]

NOTHINGFAN, you are not getting any gain because of the way you are powering the mics. You are using the three wire battery box, which powers the mics properly but doesn't give you any gain. In fact, if you compare it to two wire powering (Sound Pro method), you lose about 8db of gain. Just boost the levels on the iRiver to compensate. The iRiver has plenty of analog gain.

[sunjan]

Not sure exactly where this goes, but I set up my iRiver H120 to the settings in this thread, and my recordings come out really low.  Which isn't really a big problem, cause I just amplify the volume in Adobe Audition to my desired level.

I have a custom made battery box, with no gain on it, so I can't adjust it there.  Any of you have any idea on how my recordings can come out with a little more volume, and how I can adjust my iRiver to do so?

Yeah, maybe I'm stating the obvious, but do you have Rockbox on the H120? And is it a recent build?
Since you didn't mention increasing the gain in the H120, perhaps you didn't find the setting?

Read up on the safety clip feature in Rockbox. It's the perfect way to set gain before the gig starts, and it will lower the gain until it's just below the clipping stage. Like others here said, +20dB is usually fine.

/J

[NOTHINGFAN]

NOTHINGFAN, you are not getting any gain because of the way you are powering the mics. You are using the three wire battery box, which powers the mics properly but doesn't give you any gain. In fact, if you compare it to two wire powering (Sound Pro method), you lose about 8db of gain. Just boost the levels on the iRiver to compensate. The iRiver has plenty of analog gain.

This is what I was thinking, but didn't know what to set the gain on the iRiver at.  That's pretty much my question.  Thanks for you help.

[Dede2002]

The general rule of thumb, as far as I can tell, is battery box for very loud shows, to power your mics and allow them to deal with higher volumes, and preamp for quiet shows (or less loud shows) to provide more gain so you don't have to max your recorder's input (and the recorder's inherent noise).

I'll second the reccomendation for Chris Church's preamps. I've used one a couple of times and it was a fine piece of kit.

 

Hello everyone,

I totally understand this rule. But as far as my almost zero knowledge goes, a preamp is not usefull for quiet shows only. I use a preamp because of it's clean gain in opposite to the noisier preamp of my R-09. If I set my R-09 to the so called unity gain( 8 or 9) even at loud shows I'd need my preamp to get good levels. I have run a few tests ( very amateurish...) and the noise diference between the R-09 and my CA 9100 preamp is brutal.
But this is just me.

[NOTHINGFAN]

Not sure exactly where this goes, but I set up my iRiver H120 to the settings in this thread, and my recordings come out really low.  Which isn't really a big problem, cause I just amplify the volume in Adobe Audition to my desired level.

I have a custom made battery box, with no gain on it, so I can't adjust it there.  Any of you have any idea on how my recordings can come out with a little more volume, and how I can adjust my iRiver to do so?

Yeah, maybe I'm stating the obvious, but do you have Rockbox on the H120? And is it a recent build?
Since you didn't mention increasing the gain in the H120, perhaps you didn't find the setting?

Read up on the safety clip feature in Rockbox. It's the perfect way to set gain before the gig starts, and it will lower the gain until it's just below the clipping stage. Like others here said, +20dB is usually fine.

/J

Yes, my iRiver has Rockbox on it, and I followed everything in the FAQ's for the iRiver on this site on how to set my settings. 

My setup is...

SP-CMC-4U (ATU853) cards > custom battery box > iRiver h120 with Rockbox

I bought my battery box from someone on this board, and that person bought it off of someone who custom made it.  My mics are two separate mics, not terminated together, with XLR plugs. (if that explains things better).

My gain on my iRiver is set to 0.  So I'm assuming if I crank it up to 20, I'd be good to go?  I usually see loud rock concerts (Stone Temple Pilots, Pearl Jam, TOOL, Radiohead, etc...) to get an idea of the type of shows I see.  Ranging from theaters to small and big arenas.

What I've been doing is, letting my settings go, and just amplifying the volume on the recording using Adobe Audition.  Seemed to work just fine with my first recording I did. (America).

I used the same settings for Van Halen, and last night, Stone Temple Pilots, and when i play the track back on my iRiver, the volume is really, really low.

Should I upgrade my battery box, or is the way I've been doing it just fine, but just have to amplify the volume using audio software like Adobe Audition.  I mean, I know it's an extra step, but it seemed to work just fine for me.

Thanks for everyone who responded in this thread.  This info is very useful.

Hopefully I can get this issue resolved before seeing Eric Clapton two Saturdays from now. 

[sunjan]

My gain on my iRiver is set to 0.  So I'm assuming if I crank it up to 20, I'd be good to go? 

Exactly. Crank up the gain in Rockbox to say +20-24dB, activate safety clip in the recording settings, and see the invisible hand setting your gain just nicely below clipping level!

Off course Dede is also right that an external pre like the CA-9100 will give a much cleaner gain. But for guys like us who are short of money, or paranoid about pat-downs and wanding by security, less gear is a trade-off we have to take.

I'm still convinced that adding gain during the recording stage on the iRiver makes more sense than keeping the input level at +0dB and tring to boost it in post.

[NOTHINGFAN]

Thanks, all.  I will try this at the next show. 

[cgrooves]

SP-CMC-4U (ATU853) cards > custom battery box > iRiver h120 with Rockbox

My mics are two separate mics, not terminated together, with XLR plugs. (if that explains things better).

Sounds like you have stock AT mics to me.  Did you order from SP with individual mini XLR terminations?

My gain on my iRiver is set to 0. 

As pointed out, that is the source of your 'not enough volume' complaint.  Your battery box isn't supplying any gain, so you need to supply gain somewhere to adjust your recording levels (i.e. via the H120). 

You are going to like the results much better than what you have been doing (i.e. boosting in post via software).

[bugg100]

Why not crank your stereo and play with the gain of your iRiver at home.  That will give you the chance to find out how hard you may be able to push the iRiver preamp before you get into a lot of noise. 

Then you can relax more at a show and be confidant of pulling a better tape.

Joe