Topic: Edirol R-09HR - Part TWO

[jobseek2001]

Sorry, but I dont speak engineer, can you explain in layman's terms? Please?

He means:
Unity is the point where no gain nor attenuation is added to the signal.
The core of the recorder is the codec chip with optionally it's own PGA (Programmable Gain Amplifier?).
When the PGA is unsused that amplifier is at unity.
The reference signal (which varies per chip) will then reach 0dbFS on the scale.
Therefor the level of the reference signal is important.
For the HR that level is 1Vrms when the WM codec is powered at 5V for the analog part.

When you insert a signal different from 1Vrms into the HR this means that either attenuation or amplification neds to be added, outside of the codec chip.
This is not what you mean with unity.

[gmm6797]

I know the meaning of unity, but when it comes to the r-09hr, where is unity?  Where does the PGA do nothing so the HR is just capturing like a "bit-bucket"?

[udovdh]

Maybe check the default level first? (and what max signal is for 0dBFS)

[guysonic]

I know the meaning of unity, but when it comes to the r-09hr, where is unity?  Where does the PGA do nothing so the HR is just capturing like a "bit-bucket"?

I wouldn't exactly call unity analog gain into an A/D stage like working a "bit-bucket" but to help determine what might be unity line input setting consider the following:

Without knowing specifics, I can assume maximum analog signal limits imposed by the power supply rails is 0-to-~+3dBu rms. 

So with LINE minimum signal input (applying some deck internal gain) measured at -12dBu (see my tech review input chart) with REC level adjust number at #80, and if 0.5dB is correct per adjust step, the #80 minus 24 adjust steps (~12 dB less gain) should put line input unity gain at ~#56-to-#50 adjustment setting.

R-09HR tech review at: www.sonicstudios.com/r09hrrev.htm

[udovdh]

The default level is just in that area.   

[Dede2002]

The default level is just in that area.   

I am also curious about the so called unity gain for one specific reason. I've been told that  it's better to attenuate using my preamp instead of the recorder. Why? Why is digital attenuation a bad thing? 

Thanks in advance

[udovdh]

The default level is just in that area.   

I am also curious about the so called unity gain for one specific reason. I've been told that  it's better to attenuate using my preamp instead of the recorder. Why? Why is digital attenuation a bad thing? 

Yes, digital attenuation is bad.
but the deck does analog attenuation before the ADC as far as I know.

[Dede2002]

The default level is just in that area.   

I am also curious about the so called unity gain for one specific reason. I've been told that  it's better to attenuate using my preamp instead of the recorder. Why? Why is digital attenuation a bad thing? 

Yes, digital attenuation is bad.
but the deck does analog attenuation before the ADC as far as I know.

Thanks a lot for your fast response 

[gmm6797]

I wouldn't exactly call unity analog gain into an A/D stage like working a "bit-bucket" but to help determine what might be unity line input setting consider the following:

That is true, the bit bucket term was wrong/off...

What I am planning to use my R09Hr for, is capturing the audio that my mics and pre send to it, and nothing more... I dont need to be fancy or use bells and whistles... just something to record the sound the way the PA is putting it out and not have the deck play a role in the recording.

[Brian Skalinder]

What I am planning to use my R09Hr for, is capturing the audio that my mics and pre send to it, and nothing more... I dont need to be fancy or use bells and whistles... just something to record the sound the way the PA is putting it out and not have the deck play a role in the recording.

The analog stage of the R-09 and its ADC will play a role in the recording.  You may be able to minimize the audible impact of the R-09's analog stage, but it's there nonetheless.  Likewise, different ADCs sound different (in part due to analog stages, in part due to the ADC itself).  The only way the "recorder" wouldn't play an auditory role is if it was truly acting as a bit bucket, i.e. you ran an external analog stage and ADC and simply captured the digital output of the ADC onto the recorder.

That's not to say the R-09 won't perform as you wish - from the recordings I've heard, mics > preamp > R-09 sounds mighty fine.

[Josephine]

I've run the HR twice now @ 24/96.  No issues whatsoever.
Used a Kingston 8 gig card both times.

[Hman]

At last I got mine as well.. it was delivered with a HP 8GB SD-card.
I haven't tested it yet.. Someone here already has some experiences with this type of card?
I'm already thinking on buying an extra SanDisk or Kingston as backup..

[andol123]

Found a few R-09HR podcasts at http://blindcooltech.com/

Edirol R09 HR Overview
describes and demonstrates this new high quality digital recorder from Edirol. 26.9 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1206EdirolR09HROverview.mp3

Edirol R09 HR Microphone Tests
compares various recorder and microphone combinations. 33.0 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1207EdirolR09HRMicrophoneTests.mp3

Storm That Made The Lake Disappear
captures (with the Edirol R09-HR and DPA microphones) the storm that emptied Lake Delton on June 8, 2008. This is not a recording of the lake emptying, but about 5 minutes of the storm as it passed through Madison before it caused the damage. 8.6 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1210StormThatMadeTheLakeDisappear.mp3

[Dede2002]

Found a few R-09HR podcasts at http://blindcooltech.com/

Edirol R09 HR Overview
describes and demonstrates this new high quality digital recorder from Edirol. 26.9 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1206EdirolR09HROverview.mp3

Edirol R09 HR Microphone Tests
compares various recorder and microphone combinations. 33.0 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1207EdirolR09HRMicrophoneTests.mp3

Storm That Made The Lake Disappear
captures (with the Edirol R09-HR and DPA microphones) the storm that emptied Lake Delton on June 8, 2008. This is not a recording of the lake emptying, but about 5 minutes of the storm as it passed through Madison before it caused the damage. 8.6 MB
http://media.libsyn.com/media/bct/bct1210StormThatMadeTheLakeDisappear.mp3

Thanks for the heads up. Great stuff.
+T

[spyder9]

What I am planning to use my R09Hr for, is capturing the audio that my mics and pre send to it, and nothing more... I dont need to be fancy or use bells and whistles... just something to record the sound the way the PA is putting it out and not have the deck play a role in the recording.

The analog stage of the R-09 and its ADC will play a role in the recording.  You may be able to minimize the audible impact of the R-09's analog stage, but it's there nonetheless.  Likewise, different ADCs sound different (in part due to analog stages, in part due to the ADC itself).  The only way the "recorder" wouldn't play an auditory role is if it was truly acting as a bit bucket, i.e. you ran an external analog stage and ADC and simply captured the digital output of the ADC onto the recorder.

That's not to say the R-09 won't perform as you wish - from the recordings I've heard, mics > preamp > R-09 sounds mighty fine.

Greg,

Brian's opinion above is accurate.  No matter how you slice it, the HR's pre/adc will have a presence in your recording's flavor.  It is an often overlooked consideration when you send an Analog signal > Recorder.  If you want your mics and preamp to be dominate the flavor of your recordings, I suggest you score a Sony SBM-1/ PCM-D50 combo or something equivalent.  Ensure that the external ADC is transparent, in that it converts the sound, but offers no flavoring to the output.