Topic: new marantz PMD 661

[JasonSobel]

sweetwater's website says that they expect to have the 661 in stock the week of Jan 4.
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PMD661/

retail price: $800
sweetwater is advertising it at $600

[Goldy]

Apparently they are now in stock @ Sweetwater and shipping.....

[guysonic]

While Sweetwater works with their M Pro partners to get an image of the PMD661 for buyers to view, here are some images and data specifications.















From the printed specifications and form factor of the new PMD661, might not expect much difference in performance quality over the 660, just enhanced ability for 24bit and 96K recording modes.  Seems another ideal candidate for 'high snake oil' deck modification.

Split recording level knob is ideal for dual mono inputs, but works against keeping precise stereo input channel match.

[datbrad]

Split recording level knob is ideal for dual mono inputs, but works against keeping precise stereo input channel match.

Mics are dual mono sources, that create stereo imaging based on how they are arrayed, so how is the split knob a negative? I watch people trying to drop levels evenly holding separate L/R knobs and it's harder than having one knob to turn. Once you have the balance set, they are linked together when they are moved with one hand.

As far as "snake oil", if Doug can upgrade the op amps and caps to increase the headroom and lower the noise, we could get this unit with specs that exceed 16 bit. On paper, at line level the 661 is only 85 db dynamic range and .02% harmonic distortion, that is not even producing 16 bits of end product. The mic inputs are clearly needing upgrades, since they are spec'd far lower at 65 db dynamic range.

The specs have to be closer to 120 db dynamic range, and something like .008% harmonic distortion to exceed what the 660 can already give. I am hopeful that Doug can line mod this thing so we can run hot preamps into it without overloading any active electronics in the front end. Looking forward to hearing some feedback early in 2009.

[JasonSobel]

from Marantz tech suppport:

Hello Jason,

Thanks for your message.

It takes a very small amount of time for the PMD661 to end the recording
of one file and then start another.  You may hear an extremely small gap
or nothing at all depending on the source signal.  There is no way
around this but the gap due to processing and is very minimal and again,
may not be noticed at all.

If you feel that this may be an issue for your application, we recommend
testing out the unit at a local dealer before purchasing.

At this point, we recommend using Lexar and SanDisk SD or SDHC cards.

Best regards,

Technical Support
D&M Professional

for me, this is a big deal.  when I brought up this possibility earlier, no one commented.  I guess with 4GB, you could get 4 hours at 24/48 or 2 hours at 24/96 in a single file, and not have to worry about this.  but I've been recording at 24/96 for a couple of years now, and would prefer not to drop back down to 48kHz.  and I sometimes record sets that go more than 2 hours in length.  it's too bad, it would have been nice to get a smaller deck, but not if it doesn't do what I need it to do.

[newplanet7]

What's with all this snake oil stuff
Thee 660 needed a mod so we could use it without distorting and bricking.
The mod worked.... End of story.
Damn, some of you are bitter asses.

Someone should offer an attitude mod for you.

[guysonic]

What's with all this snake oil stuff
Thee 660 needed a mod so we could use it without distorting and bricking.
The mod worked.... End of story.
Damn, some of you are bitter asses.

Someone should offer an attitude mod for you.

Ignorance with a bad attitude is often not a pretty sight as your post demonstrates.

Suggest you do something about this, trying to do better next time by offering an apology for a totally inappropriate post after reading first part of this thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=0181d70481d3d3595fc10ab2ba8814d9&topic=109703.0;all

[Ozpeter]

I fail to see why anyone is getting upset about the term "snake oil" - in quotes - being used on the two occasions in this thread where it was first used.

In both cases, the use of quotes around the phrase clearly implies that what is meant is "so called snake oil".

In both cases, the context makes it perfectly clear that the comments come from people who consider that the suggested mods could improve the performance of the PMD 661 to a worthwhile degree.

So there's not the slightest reason for the thread to get derailed into argument and counter argument about either snakes or oil or both.

'Tis the season to be jolly, no? 

[newplanet7]

My bad mr. sonic.  

Read it wrong.

[J.T.L]

I opened one up, it does use the same chips as the PMD 660 and FR2LE (JRC 2122) so I will be able to upgrade it any way I like. The OLED display is nice and easy to read but the LEDs are hard to see outdoors due to the angle so for reporters it can be a pain but for table top use it is fine. The really good news, they use a true high end pro digital input chip for the S/PDIF connector with a rock solid interface and very low jitter. It should be the bit bucket tapers have been waiting on !

[datbrad]

I opened one up, it does use the same chips as the PMD 660 and FR2LE (JRC 2122) so I will be able to upgrade it any way I like. The OLED display is nice and easy to read but the LEDs are hard to see outdoors due to the angle so for reporters it can be a pain but for table top use it is fine. The really good news, they use a true high end pro digital input chip for the S/PDIF connector with a rock solid interface and very low jitter. It should be the bit bucket tapers have been waiting on !

I still wonder if there are active electronics between the XLR line inputs and the gain control. It would really be nice if one of these recorder companies offered a unit with a straight path analog line stage like the good old DAP-1 and D10Pro, with hardware switched inputs instead of the i-pod like menu selection all the flash units are mostly using. It sucks to know that you could be recording with peak levels holding at -1, and end up with clips at the active inputs and not know it until later. I have first hand experience with that, and it sucks.

The standard "solution" offered is to drop the preamps down so the line level is lower into the recorder. However, transformer preamps perform best when the transformers are saturated, meaning a very hot line out to the recorder.

Oh, one day maybe...........

I will have to jingle Doug for some info on that.

[carpa]

The specs of this new marantz tell: 65 db and 85db in terms of dynamic range for mic and line input; this is not such a brilliant performance, as some of you said.
I was wondering how this spec compares to other pocket recorders like Edirol R09HR or Tascam or Sony d-50.
Has any of you measured or has got the specs of these decks?
thank you
c

[rsimms3]

Just to review:

It may be possible that this unit can do seemless splits recording 24/96 but it is definately not guaranteed at this time, correct?

I bought the MTII for this very purpose - to go digital in at 24/96 and have seemless splits.  I have been eagerly watching this thread given that this unit uses SD with Coaxial Digital Input - 24/96.  Another consideration is battery life, I don't want to have to use an external battery sled for fear of not being able to record the whole show as I do with the MTII.

[JasonSobel]

Just to review:

It may be possible that this unit can do seemless splits recording 24/96 but it is definately not guaranteed at this time, correct?

I bought the MTII for this very purpose - to go digital in at 24/96 and have seemless splits.  I have been eagerly watching this thread given that this unit uses SD with Coaxial Digital Input - 24/96.  Another consideration is battery life, I don't want to have to use an external battery sled for fear of not being able to record the whole show as I do with the MTII.

I'm pretty sure that it is not seamless splits.  I've had a couple more back and forth emails with the Marantz tech people.  After telling him that I was probably going to stick with my Tascam HD-P2 for now (because I absolutely need seamless splits).  he sent me a couple of mp3 clips (which I haven't had the chance to listen to yet).  Basically, he made a recording with the S/PDIF input.  and after short inervals, used the manual "autotrack" to close the file and create a new one.  He then put all these files together to form the first click.  It's not seamless.  though some of the flie-splits are "inaudible", while others you can hear a small "tick.  Of course, "this all depends on the shape of the wave form at the split".  He then send me a second clip, in which he used a pencil editing tool to get rid of the small ticks.  In his opinion, now the file splits were all inaudible, so it didn't matter that the original split isn't quite seamless.

what this says to me is that it's almost seamless, but not quite.  you probably won't notice it, and if you do, it can be masked pretty easily.  Personally, I think I'm going to stick with the Tascam and true seamless splits.

of course, by comparison, the Fostex FR-2LE doesn't even automatically start a new file.  with that deck, you hit 4GB and it stops.  and plenty of people are happy with the Fostex.  I think with 4GB as the file size limit (which it is for the PMD-661), its a reasonable deck if you are happy at 24/48 (or 24/44.1).  then you've got 4 hours per file and don't have to worry about file splits anyway.  but if you wan tto record at 24/96, you'll hit the 4gig mark after 2 hours, which I often go beyond in a single set.

[rsimms3]

Bummer, looks like I am sticking with the MTII.  The 661 is a nice looking box too, that's a shame.