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Author Topic: Figure 8 mics  (Read 7288 times)

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Offline spcyrfc

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Figure 8 mics
« on: January 12, 2010, 06:23:42 PM »
just heard back from sennheiser and it seems they are not coming out with a figure 8 cap for the 8000 series mics. 

i would like to get a pair of figure 8 capsules or microphones.  any suggestions out there for relatively cheap (under 1k per mic) figure 8's?
i used to have a pair of 414's.  looking for something a bit smaller.

i will be running bleumlein and M/S.

thanks,

luke
mkh8040>aerco mp-2>pcmd-50
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Offline dean

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2010, 06:47:20 PM »
just heard back from sennheiser and it seems they are not coming out with a figure 8 cap for the 8000 series mics. 

i would like to get a pair of figure 8 capsules or microphones.  any suggestions out there for relatively cheap (under 1k per mic) figure 8's?
i used to have a pair of 414's.  looking for something a bit smaller.

i will be running bleumlein and M/S.

thanks,

luke

MBHO 603a series has a fig8 capsule.  Don't recall the price breaks on 'em anymore, though the fig8 cap was much more expensive than the other caps.
Light weight: Sound Pro AT 831 or MBHO's > tinybox > D7 or Samson PM4's > Denecke PS-2 > D7
Slutty weight:  [MBHO MBP 603A + (KA100LK/KA200N/KA500HN)] and/or [AKG C 414 b xls (omni/sub-card/card/hyp/8)]  > Hi Ho Silver xlr's/other xlr's > Oade T & W Mod R-4 or UA-5 (BM2p+ mod.) or JB3 or D7

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Offline goodcooker

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2010, 08:26:42 PM »
For under 1K per mic you're prob going to have to go with LDs.
I vote ADK TL.
Line Audio CM3/OM1 || MBHO KA500 hyper>PFA|| ADK A51 type IV || AKG C522XY
Oade Warm Mod and Presence+ Mod UA5s || Aerco MP2(needs help) || Neve Portico 5012 || Apogee MMP
SD Mixpre6 || Oade Concert Mod DR100mkii

pocket sized - CA11 cards > SP SB10 > Sony PCM A10

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Offline H₂O

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2010, 09:07:22 PM »
If your lucky (very lucky) you may find a used Neumann AK20 and KM100 body for right around $1K
« Last Edit: January 12, 2010, 09:43:47 PM by H2O »
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Offline notlance

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2010, 11:52:59 PM »
Are your looking for a condenser or would a ribbon be OK?

In a condenser it's hard to beat the MKH30.  I know it's over $1k, but it would work nicely with your 8040.  They don't come up for sale used very often and their used price is not much less than the new price.  Still, I doubt you would regret spending the extra money.

If you consider a ribbon, you have more choices.  I have a Beyerdynamic M130 which is a nice little mic.  New they are about $650.

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2010, 10:20:21 AM »
AKG makes the CK94 (http://www.akg.com/site/products/powerslave,id,235,pid,235,nodeid,2,_language,EN.html) figure-8 cap for the SE 300 B bodies (aka the "Blue Line" mics).

I don't know how much the CK94 caps go for (or how often they come up used), but I'd bet that the cap+body combo would be well under a grand.

Offline landshark

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2010, 06:40:25 PM »
just heard back from sennheiser and it seems they are not coming out with a figure 8 cap for the 8000 series mics.

Oh sunuvab.....I bought my 8000 series planning on a figure 8.  Nuts.
AKG 461's / 463's OR Senn MKH 8040's > MR1000 (Busman mod) or Shure FP24 (aka MixPre) > MR1 (open)
Coresounds Binaurals > CChurch 9100 > MR1 OR AKG CK1x/2x/3x > Deneke P20 > MR1 (low profile)

Offline John Willett

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2010, 06:19:20 AM »
just heard back from sennheiser and it seems they are not coming out with a figure 8 cap for the 8000 series mics. 

Who told you that?

My information is that the MKH 8030 fig-8 is still planned for the system - just not immediately. 


i would like to get a pair of figure 8 capsules or microphones.  any suggestions out there for relatively cheap (under 1k per mic) figure 8's?

The Neumann KK 120 is out now and the new KM-A (analogue version of the KM-D) will be out any moment now (Jan/Feb as I understand) - I know someone doing MS with an MKH 8040 and KK120/KM-A.



Offline spcyrfc

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2010, 11:05:06 PM »
here is the response:
Hi Luke,

While there is some buzz on the internet regarding this new capsule,
I am afraid Sennheiser has nothing to announce or release at this
time.

Best,

Ben Escobedo
Product Specialist - MI


so i suppose i could have misread into the 'announce or release at this time' 

if you have other information, say perhaps a time table or knowledge that it will eventually come out, then i may wait it out.


how tough is it to blow out those ribbon mics?

i'll keep my eyes peeled for the AK or hopefully a used mkh30.
mkh8040>aerco mp-2>pcmd-50
PFS: AKG 414xls

Record Local

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Offline John Willett

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2010, 07:23:31 AM »
here is the response:
Hi Luke,

While there is some buzz on the internet regarding this new capsule,
I am afraid Sennheiser has nothing to announce or release at this
time.

Best,

Ben Escobedo
Product Specialist - MI


so i suppose i could have misread into the 'announce or release at this time' 

if you have other information, say perhaps a time table or knowledge that it will eventually come out, then i may wait it out.



That's more like it - he just says "no news yet" *not* that it's not coming at all.

Offline DSatz

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2010, 08:57:55 AM »
Right, and he even says "this new capsule" rather than "I'm sorry, but this is all a big mistake; there is no such product even in the planning stage."

music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline Erick del Valle

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2010, 07:07:30 AM »
What about Ambients?

53mm x 20mm (u$700 each)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/629673-REG/Ambient_Recording_ATE208_ATE_208_Emesser_Figure_8.html

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Offline DSatz

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2010, 09:29:46 AM »
Since I have a certain connection with one of the microphone manufacturers, I generally maintain a policy of not criticizing other microphones, but I hope I can be fair enough if I say something here.

According to Ambient's Web site, this microphone was designed for dialogue recording, and if you look at its frequency response you can see a distinct low-frequency rolloff that starts higher than most people would probably want for music recording.

A low-frequency rolloff for the "S" microphone in an M/S pair causes the stereo separation at lower frequencies to be reduced correspondingly. Now, the biggest problem with most coincident stereo recording methods such as M/S is their lack of perceived spaciousness--a quality which depends critically on the pickup of difference information at low frequencies. So this rolloff, while it makes great sense for dialog and effects recording, is the opposite of what would normally be desired for music recording.

If a microphone has a highly consistent polar pattern--maintained well across the audio frequency spectrum--then equalization becomes a serious option to remedy any shortcomings in its frequency response. The figure-8s that I use also have a low-frequency rolloff--since the physics of this type of condenser microphone dictates one--and I use equalization when decoding most M/S recordings that I make in large recording spaces such as churches or concert halls. One well-known manufacturer of condenser figure-8s actually builds such equalization directly into their microphones, and I would not say that their idea is wrong by any means.

At high and upper-mid frequencies, the polar patterns of this microphone do not appear to be as consistent as one might want for music recording, but at low frequencies they are quite consistent so the bass boost trick might work well. Its signal-to-noise ratio is not the greatest, but for its intended purpose (dialog and effects recording) the microphone looks as if it might be a decent bargain for all I know. If I had built this microphone, I would feel that it was quite an accomplishment if I plugged it in and signals came out of it, so I want to be respectful of people who really can do that.

Moral of the story: It is very difficult to make high-quality microphones on the pressure-gradient end of the spectrum (supercardioid, hypercardioid or figure-8), and what you can get for a reduced price generally doesn't bring you as close to the best as it might on the pressure (omni) end of the spectrum.

The opinions expressed here are my own (on a good day) and do not reflect the views of any church, corporation, fire station, or manufacturer of hair care products. Do not feed these opinions after midnight or immerse them in water. Wash hands repeatedly and don't forget to practice, practice, practice.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2010, 07:56:24 AM by DSatz »
music > microphones > a recorder of some sort

Offline dean

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2010, 03:11:51 PM »
^ :yack:
Light weight: Sound Pro AT 831 or MBHO's > tinybox > D7 or Samson PM4's > Denecke PS-2 > D7
Slutty weight:  [MBHO MBP 603A + (KA100LK/KA200N/KA500HN)] and/or [AKG C 414 b xls (omni/sub-card/card/hyp/8)]  > Hi Ho Silver xlr's/other xlr's > Oade T & W Mod R-4 or UA-5 (BM2p+ mod.) or JB3 or D7

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Offline leddy

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Re: Figure 8 mics
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2010, 04:31:28 PM »
Quote from: DSatz link=topic=131056.msg1729722#msg
Now, the biggest problem with most coincident stereo recording methods such as M/S is their lack of perceived spaciousness--a quality which depends critically on the pickup of difference information at low frequencies. So this rolloff, while it makes great sense for dialog and effects recording, is the opposite of what would normally be desired for music recording.

It's funny you mention this (and I apologize for the slight hijack).  I was just revisiting some M/S recordings I made (using and Avenson STO omni mid and an MKH30 side), wondering why they didn't sound that great to me.  I tried playing with the low freq. in the side mic and I found I liked it better rolled off a bit.  Basically, it allowed me to add more side before it sounded too phasey.  With more bass in the side mic, I had to keep it's level down a bit and the image was more narrow. 

I've heard others mention the uncorrelated low freq. being key to spacious coincident recordings, but my own experience does not match that so much.  Don't we hear lower frequencies in mono anyway?  Taking an M/S recording and lowering the bass on the side mic, then turning the side mic gain up higher gave me a much more spacious image.  Obviously, we each have our preferences.   :)
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 04:34:02 PM by leddy »
Jazz musician - String bass. 
Gear:  Edirol R44(2), Sytek Pres, Byer MC930's, Oktava MC012's, Avenson STO's, & Beyer M160/130's.

 

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