Topic: Newbie: Advice on buying the right Mic set up

[Fitz]

I am just getting started, building a rig and need some help.  I plan to do the majority of my recording indoors at the local venues in Seattle (Showbox, Crocodile , Tractor tavern, etc) with occasional outdoor shows at the Gorge (focus on Jambands and Bluegrass).  Looking for a versatile set up that will allow me to get the best results.  I picked up a Sony PCM D50 off Craigslist for $350 as my foundation, understanding that the real money should be spent on mics but, I am at a loss as to which manufacturer and model would be best. Any advise would be appreciated.  Budgets is between $750-$1000; new or used; quality over quantity.  Keep in mind all I have is the D50 at the momment so need to build around it..  Thanks.

[nicegrin]

For omnis

DPA 4061s < $1000
Nevaton MCE 400s + tinybox (around $700)

for cards or hypers:

MM HLSC-1 (cards) + 9v batterybox or CA-9100 preamp (less than $500)
AT 853 cards or hypercardiods + 9v batterybox or CA-9100 pre (less than $500)
Audix 1280 card or hypercaps + Church cables + 9v batterybox or CA-9100 pre. (less than $500)

I´d say the Nevaton setup is the best deal but all these alternatives are very good starting mics!

/N

[ArchivalAudio]

you get a lot of opinions and answers
nevatons are nice for omnis  as are the countrymabn  B3's
check out this thread though
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=138486.0
tinybox or littlebox are great and could be a great way to get a better mic-pre more affordable

are you planing recording in the open on a stand or going under cover?

that will make a huge difference in mic recommendations

remember to check out LMA and search for particular mics and give a listen, may be you'l' eneven find a set up like what you want to listen to.

--Ian

[Fitz]

Right now I am focused on an "open stand" set up but will want to pick up a stealth set up over time.  I have 100s of Gb of live shows, many of which I am sure the folks posting on this site have recorded (Thank you) I thought is was about time that I start contributing versus leaching  .   I tend to like the Neumman and AKG sources but not sure if they are out of my price range given the versatile set up I looking for.. thoughts?

Thanks for taking the time to respond, I am very impressed with openess with which everyone shares their knowledge in this forum...

[ArchivalAudio]

Personally I like the neumann sound
some AKG recordings I like - sometimes they are too tinny or bright for me

I always thought that the KM140's were my favorite sounding mic - until I heard a comp posted here with the Milab VM44's
now I really like how natural the VM44's sound - and have been very happy with the results. both the neumann and the milabs are probably slightly more than you want to spend
check out team boards
 and team milab here: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=114343.225

 you might check out busman's mics
they sound great and are affordable, and he is a great guy that will stand behind his work.
team busman http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=124543.0
his site: http://busmanaudio.com/
and then get a littlebox for your mic pre and you'd have a great set up.
team Littlebox/Naiant
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=130031.0
Naiant's site
http://www.naiant.com/naiant/microphoneamplifiers.html


again listen to stuff on the Live Music Archive [LMA]
and see what combos of gear you like

--Ian

[mattmiller]

I tend to like the Neumman and AKG sources but not sure if they are out of my price range given the versatile set up I looking for.. thoughts?

A used pair of Neumann KM184s (cardioids) can usually be had for under $1000 (maybe as low as $800).  But they don't show up in the Yard Sale all that often.

[newplanet7]

I would grab these which is a great price BTW
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=136372.0
(2)AKG 460b sn 2974,4365 one is old  3 switch style, one is the newer 1 switch. both show wear. work perfectly.

(2)a60 pretty clean, perfect threads

(2)ck3 sn 853,6364 one is considerably older than the other obviously. oddly the older looks better cosmetically, but both are near mint.

package deal for now $600
and a littlebox pre. Done.

[Tedley]

You may want to check out the Peluso cemc6 mics. I have a set on the yardsale at the moment for $525 (shameless commercial plug).
With a littlebox pre, you are in your price range. Another suggestion is to get a set of Church-Audio CA-14's and a CA-9100 pre (see the yardsale). That will get you a great sounding, inexpensive set of mics for now and cover stealth mics to boot. Then take your time, even a few months, researching mics such as already suggested and others yet to be suggested, and be more certain about what you might like. You may end up with less buyers remorse. Use the search function, listen to recordings of mics in your price range and keep asking questions. Most guys here have been through more than one set of mics to end up with what they are currently using. Did anyone mention that this can be a very expensive hobby?

[Fitz]

"again listen to stuff on the Live Music Archive [LMA]
and see what combos of gear you like.."

Ian and all, thanks for all the guidence.. I spent the better half of the day listening to various shows on LMA recorded wth AKG c460, Neumann U89i, DPA 4023 Busman BSC and Milab VM-44 Link and they all sound steller in their own right.   I need to spend more time taking it in but really appreciate everyones guidence, please keep it coming.

Any idea what a pair of Milab V44 Links would set me back?

Fitz

[jlykos]

Ian and all, thanks for all the guidence.. I spent the better half of the day listening to various shows on LMA recorded wth AKG c460, Neumann U89i, DPA 4023 Busman BSC and Milab VM-44 Link and they all sound steller in their own right.   I need to spend more time taking it in but really appreciate everyones guidence, please keep it coming.

Of those mics, the U89i and the 4023 will be well outside of your budget.  It is still worth listening to recordings with them to form some idea of what is possible and the general direction that you want your tapes to sound like.

You can go in a number of different directions as of now.  The D50 was a good pickup; it has a very nice A/D stage and I have never had any problems with the internal preamp when going mic-in or line-in.  It can handle a hell of a signal so an external preamplifier is not absolutely necessary with it.

I agree with you that you should place most of your money in microphones.  The issue is that an external preamplifier would eat up a good chunk of what you have budgeted for mics.  I would suggest spending around $100 on a simple battery box like a Denecke PS-2 and a pair of attenuators, and then run mics > battery box > recorder (line-in).  This way, you could spend most of your budget on a nice set of mics that you will have for a long time and then pick up a preamplifier as funds allow.

In addition to the mics that you listed above, I would also recommend that you listen to the Neumann km184 and the Microtech Gefell M300.  Used pairs of each should be in your price range if you forgo the preamplifier in favor of the battery box.  The only preamps that I would look at in your price range are the Naiant Littlebox or a used Sound Devices MP-2, but as I said, it is not absolutely necessary given the good preamplifier and A/D stage of the D50.

[ArchivalAudio]

Any idea what a pair of Milab V44 Links would set me back?

Fitz,

I got mine thru Full Compass via my rep Ron V - when you talk to a rep you can usually get a lower than web pricing - I got them there because at the time they were one of the few places to get them in the US + they had a deal with their credit card (thru GE capital) for no interest for a year.
pricing looks like it is the same for either the VM-44 Links  "active style" capsules
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/362416.html
or the classic (body and mic together)
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/337331.html

they show $829 each

you might also check with Dirk  (TNJazz) here at TS or at his site  http://www.bigpurpledog.com/MILAB_SDC/VM44_Link.html

when I got mine
I believe my pair was just under $1300  something like $1285  including shipping.

I opted for the no matched pair, when I sent mine in for service  I had a loaner pair sent to me that were a matched pair and when I compared the mic plots for my 2 and the matched pair mine were certainly within the same tolerance of the matched pair.

I like the links and the "active" style capsule as it allows me to be less obtrusive when needed, and when not needed I am less obtrusive anyway -'cause the caps are fairly small!

--Ian

[ArchivalAudio]

right now in the YS ed is selling his Schoeps CMR /Tinybox set up
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=138551.0

but for $1300 you get no caps
but is one heck of a deal since you'd be ready to roll - if you like the schoeps sound - but the caps would likely set you back another $1500 - $2000

[vwmule]

I've got some AKG481s that I'd be willing to part with for $900, and would include cables and tbar.

[rich]

my thoughts...first, pic several different mics (that you can afford AND are willing to spend), and go sample some recordings made with those mics, paying special note to the mic preamp (if any) that was used in the recording you sample. may i suggest in addition to the neumann's and akg's you mentioned, try and find some recordings made with Beyerdynamic mc930 (cardiod) mics, Microtech Gefell MG300, and Peluso cemc-6 (cardiod caps). the mc930's and mg300's will stretch your top end budget, but are well worth the cash and can be found in the YS for good price and good used condition. the Peluso gear is a little cheaper AND also comes interchangeable caps...nice option.

second, then try and squeeze from your finances enough cash for a preamp...imo, the Naint Littlebox is hard to beat. i think you will find many folks here that agree it is very nice gear, sounds great, and holds its own against many of the $1000 + preamps on the market today...and the customer support is top notch. i dont own one, but read for yourself...the info is in the TS.

in short...beyerdynamic mc930's (which can be obtained for appx $600 used) + Naint Littlebox (appx $200 new based upon requested feature design) + Sony PCM-D50 = a sweet high quality field recording rig

hope this helps.

rich

[Todd R]

I agree with a lot that has been said.  The D50 in particular is an excellent choice.  I'm sure it would be fine (to very good) used just with a phantom power box like the Denecke PS2.  I'd really recommend though the Naiant littlebox, which is an excellent sounding preamp, and an even better deal for the money.  I'd further recommend the internal li-ion battery option for $50 that will give you power for 10-20 hours at a charge (and then you won't need to be buying 9v batteries or figuring out an external battery supply).  So about $270 shipped I think.

A used pair of AKG 460s with the ck61 cardioid caps for about $600-650 used is an option (or get the pair of AKGs noted above).

One other thought is to get the ADK A51TL mics that are in the yardsale for $450 (no affiliation, don't even know the seller).  The ADK TL's are just an excellent set of mics, a complete and total bargain for the price, and they give you 4 mic patterns to choose from, which can be useful in many taping situations and will allow you to learn what you like in terms of mic patterns in case you ever want to change to a different set of mics.

$450 for TLs + $270 for littlebox =  a bit over $700.  Leaves some room for gear bag, stand, t-bar, etc, and will still leave more money in your pocket than you allotted (a rare thing for recommendations around here  ).  And it will make for an excellent rig.