Topic: mk41 vs mk4 ( ccm41 or ccm4) pickup

[StuStu]

thanks i tend to record in spots that are close to the sound source, stacks in big venues, I try for DFC FOB for smaller venues like (ruth eckerd hall 9 seat 2,000)


I truly like my DPA 4022 and 4061.  I have heard the schoeps give a different sound, and i was willing to dive into the schoeps arena, and since i have cards ( DPA 4022) i thought that the Mk41 I or ccm41) would be a nice change, but i dont see myself changing my recording positions at venues, i was wanting another set of mics. And i do use jedi taping skills the most.  In fact Like my DPA 4022 I customized my mic cable to only 1 meter--less cable to deal with.
again my main concerns was the rear pick up from behind me with the ccm41, and go lemo or hardwire mic cable.  they are not cheap.

thanks for all the advice it has been so very helpful ( again as you can see my OCD comes into effect when i think of rear pickup from the ccm41 with that kind of price tag.

and i am thinking of ccm41 version instead of capsules due to the extra gear i would have to lug around " if you know what i mean" if i could get a lemosax then i would go caps.  Not yet sold on the nbox, sorry

Another low profile option is mkx>kcy>vms02ib>recorder. I find myself using the mkx>vms02ib>744t more than any other combo. As for the choosing between the Schoeps 4/4v or 41/41v, I recommend going with the 41/41v route. As mentioned already, the 41 has plenty of bass punch. To me, it lacks a lot of the negatives that are characteristic of most other hypers. You already have a superb pair of cards.

[bluntforcetrauma]

I dont know how people " fit" the 744 in venues.

Now reading on the schoeps site i just dont know enough to understand the difference between the 41 and 41v.  Under jedi taping condtitions does the  " v" offer a better choice over the non " v"

hope that makes sense

thanks

[sparkey]

There is a frequency bump around the vocal range, I believe, which colors the recordings a bit differently than a flat response.

I dont know how people " fit" the 744 in venues.

Now reading on the schoeps site i just dont know enough to understand the difference between the 41 and 41v.  Under jedi taping condtitions does the  " v" offer a better choice over the non " v"

hope that makes sense

thanks

[H₂O]

Some say it's easier to conceal v caps to run in the brim of a cap, etc - then pointed outward in a hat (i.e. on top of the head, etc).  So in Jedi situations this can be advantageous.


One negative on the v's is resale value - from my past experience (selling 4v's) you can take a bigger percentage hit on resale on the v's (my new bought 4v's are the only Schoeps gear I have lost my ass on).


I would suggest buying v's used if possible.

[sparkey]

you can take a bigger percentage hit on resale on the v's (my new bought 4v's are the only Schoeps gear I have lost my ass on).

That's why I love buying used microphones....they really don't depreciate (hopefully).

[su6oxone]

There is a frequency bump around the vocal range, I believe, which colors the recordings a bit differently than a flat response.

Only for the 4Vs, not the 41Vs...

[sparkey]

There is a frequency bump around the vocal range, I believe, which colors the recordings a bit differently than a flat response.

Only for the 4Vs, not the 41Vs...

So the only difference between the 41's and the 41v's is the side addressing capsule?

[DSatz]

Arriving here late; sorry.

> So the only difference between the 41's and the 41v's is the side addressing capsule?

Hmm--not quite. There's a small response difference in the upper midrange, which I think most careful listeners would probably hear on a direct comparison over a good playback system. But it's definitely less than the degree of difference which Schoeps designed into the MK 4V as compared with the (already long-existing) MK 4.

Also, all Schoeps' vertical capsules begin their ultimate high-frequency rolloff somewhat before the "axial" capsules do, and in the horizontal plane they have less high-frequency emphasis in their diffuse-field response. Of those two factors the second is much more important audibly than the first, unless you make recordings in order to slow them down by a large factor either for research purposes or for use as sound effects.

Finally, I just want to point out that if you have two MK 41V capsules, the best placement for stereo recording isn't immediately adjacent/side-by-side, since they seem to interfere with each other's response when placed that way (more than I've found with other capsule types, at least). Even a small space between the capsules can make quite a difference to the "feel" of the recording.

--best regards

[yug du nord]

Finally, I just want to point out that if you have two MK 41V capsules, the best placement for stereo recording isn't immediately adjacent/side-by-side, since they seem to interfere with each other's response when placed that way (more than I've found with other capsule types, at least). Even a small space between the capsules can make quite a difference to the "feel" of the recording.

Is this theory for the 41V's only?  Doesn't Schoeps make "side-by-side" mounts for the V's.....  which they consider XY mounts (since the capsules are so close in proximity)? 

I have a friend who runs 41V's in Schoeps MidSide mount (meant for horizontal mounting, but he uses it for vertical mounting)....  and most of the time his recordings sound tremendous.... . but occasionally, that same set-up can sound really thin at times.  It's the only way that he's ever run the 41V's, and isn't much into experimentation....  he prefers the closer, non-angled, mono sound I guess....  but maybe he has the occasional "poor" result because of this response issue that you mention??.

[DSatz]

Well, I'm not really basing this on any particular body of theory, other than the well-known fact that any solid object disturbs the sound field in which it is placed, at any frequencies above the point where any dimension of the object is equal to half a wavelength of the sound. Lower-frequency waves simply flow around such an object, but higher-frequency waves are subject to reflection and/or diffraction. This can alter both the directional pattern (at certain frequencies) and (at certain pickup angles) the frequency response--characteristics which of course depend on one another.

As you may know, Schoeps sells a miniature stereo microphone called the CMXY 4V which has two MK 4V capsules mounted side-by-side on a gear-tooth arrangement that lets the user set any desired angle between their axes. This can be seen on http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/cmxy . This microphone works quite well even though there obviously has to be some deformation of response simply because each capsule has a solid object (i.e. the other capsule) sitting so close beside it. Anyway, without going into too much detail, let me just say that a few years ago I had the use of a CMXY that had been specially built with supercardioid MK 41V capsules--and it didn't live up to my hopes, nor those of people at Schoeps; it didn't give a particularly good account of how those capsules are capable of sounding when they're used more appropriately.

So I really wouldn't recommend placing a pair of those capsules directly side-by-side; I think it would be better to place them tip-to-tip, or else to put an inch or two or three of space between them, with appropriate adjustments of the angle between their main axes to match the spacing. Nor would I recommend placing two figure-8 capsules or microphones immediately side-by-side either; head-to-head is a much better arrangement for them as well, since it gets them each out of the other one's way for the most part.

And to the extent that a head-to-head pair of directional capsules still creates some obstruction for the highest-frequency sound waves, at least it is a symmetrical arrangement, so that the directional patterns of the two capsules can still be as intended in the horizontal plane at least.

--best regards

[yug du nord]

^I am aware of the CMXY....  it's always intrigued me a bit.  And the CMXY is the reason that I consider my friend's set-up as an XY set-up.  This is the mount that my friend uses for his 41V's....  he runs the mount vertical.  I just figured that I'd follow up my question with this photo....   as always...  thanks for the info! 

http://www.schoeps.de/en/products/ams22