Topic: anyone using Omnis exclusively?

[DSatz]

When I started out recording in the 1970s, my first good pair of condenser microphones were omnis (AKG C 451) and so was my next, better pair (Neumann KM 83). I liked the spacious, sprawling feel of a recording made with omnis, and the easy, immediate "listenability" as long as the treble balance and the reverberation balance were within reason. When I upgraded to Schoeps (CMT 56, CMC 32 or CMC 35) some of my clients became positively ecstatic.

However, for the kind of recording I mostly did (classical and baroque chamber and orchestral music, often with soloists), the inability to localize the particular sound sources cohesively--the lack of "image stability"--was something that I soon learned to perceive as a problem. There could be a great wash of beautiful sound, but it was like being a jellyfish in the sea. I changed over to directional microphones, placed either in a "coincident" or a "near-coincident" type of setup, and used that approach for the next 20 or so years. But there were sensual qualities that I sometimes wished I could still get in my recordings.

Long story short, much of the swimmy imaging comes from the peculiar American notion that omnidirectional microphones need to be widely spaced apart to produce a stereo effect. Diagram after diagram in American recording textbooks shows a stage with omnidirectional microphones set at about 1/4 and 3/4 of the way across, or sometimes about 1/3 and 2/3. I had friends in Germany who were recording engineers, and I discovered that they never used omnis that way--instead, they placed the mikes only maybe 18" or two feet apart. And the stereo effect was much better (and much more stable) than I would ever have imagined. In their textbooks this method of stereo recording is called "small A/B" as compared with our "large A/B" approach.

I think that many people in this forum, who are putting pairs of omnis on single mike stands or are using body-mounted microphones, are approximating the "small A/B" technique out of necessity. That turns out to have some real advantages, is what I'm trying to say here (except that body-mounted microphones can't possibly function as omnis at mid or particularly at high frequencies, so that's a whole other kettle of phish).

--best regards

[Gutbucket]

I like the 'small A-B' technique of somewhere around two to three feet.  Even when I find a big spacing of two meters appropriate and good (like from farther back outdoors), it's even better with another mic in the middle, effectively cutting that bigger (if not textbook American 'wide A-B') mic-to-mic spacing in half.

The vage spaced omni 'image stability' can be a benefit for a lot of the recording done by most of the members here, making it easier to get other more important balances right, in situations that often have less than ideal sound source localization to begin with, changing or unpredictable acts.  Of course there are plenty of good exceptions to that, especially recordings made on-stage, or the 'stage-lip' with an appropriate stage setup.  Yet I find there are just as many similar on-stage situations where sonic image location is compromized and vageness helps.

[BayTaynt3d]

I use omnis all the time for jazz and classical/chamber when the space is condusive (aka, not a bar or loud scene). I tend to run about 18" split for onstage small ensemble acoustic jazz and 3' split high on a stand and slightly back in the sweet spot for classical/chamber. But for rock, loud, or shitty venues, cards all the way.

[Gutbucket]

Ran my compact bastardized surround Decca Tree for amplified PA funk/horns/rock type material all last weekend at Bear Creek, mostly up front at the stage-lip or stage-rail, but also back about 20' for a few other acts/stages.  ~3' spacing between Left/Right mics (face of capsules angled +/- 45 degrees away from center, ~2' spacing between the Center/Surround mics.  DPA 4060 omnis mounted in sphere attachements for some high frequency directionality as well as mic security and radical dancer eye protection just above head level.  High SPL levels means crowd noise is relatively minimal, yet crowd energy and reaction between songs is great and well balanced level-wise with the music, though quiet sections are at the mercy of those surrounding.  For a few acts I pluged another recorder into the SBD back at the board and as it was also a 4 channel machine, ran a second set of omnis as wide A-B taped to the soundboard cage railing simply for possible additional surround ambience.  Go omnis.

[foofan38]

Total taping newbie here, but was looking to get both CA-14 cards and omnis and try to cover all my bases. Out of curiosity though, in a situation when you are up front (<4ft) with a very loud crowd (bar, club, etc) would it be worth trying cards just to avoid picking up too much of the crowd? Or is there such a thing as being "too close" for cards?

[Craig T]

No, I wouldn't say you can get "too close" for cards.  I have the CA14 cards and omnis and prefer the omnis because they sound more natural to my ears.  In a loud bar, I'd go cards DIN as a general rule.

[Gutbucket]

Cardioids work close.  Most mics used for singing and close mic'ing instuments on-stage are cards.  One thing to be aware of with most cardioids used really close is their 'proximity effect' zone, a region within which the microphone becomes increasingly sensitive to bass.  I don't know about the CA-14's proximity effect because I don't have a pair, but that usually starts within ~3 feet, increasing as the sound source and mic get closer still, though the extent of proximity and its 'sound' varies significantly between makes.  That's a distance usually closer than most of the setups used around here though, even when taping on-stage or from the front lip of the stage.

Generally, your good stereo options for a pair of cardioids are closer together and angled apart more verses less close and facing the same direction.. or any number of positions between that trades distance against angle.

If the aim is less pickup of crowd noise arriving mostly from directly behind, try configurations that use less angle between the microphones so they 'face away from the noise'. Having less angle between microphones usually means compensating by either increasing the distance between them or using something that acts as a baffle beween them.  If choosing wider, at some point you end up with the microphones parallel and spaced something like two feet apart, give or take a foot or so. 

[cybergaloot]

Cardioids work close.  Most mics used for singing and close mic'ing instuments on-stage are cards. 

One of the reasons for this is to prevent feedback by them picking up the monitors. It also helps isolate the instruments in the mix some.

[genesisoh]

Hi all,

For the past few months I have experimented by using CA-14 omnis all the time.  I have made some excellent pulls and one that came out subpar.  As someone mentioned above, I also like the audience sounds you get from omnis - the ambiance if you will.  For one show, I was a bit of a ways back and did get more chatter than I would like, however the instruments and in particular the drums sounded great (even though i was not directly facing the speakers).  For the other shows I was closer to the stage either dead center or off to the right.  These came out great (except for one show where everything sounds distant and muffled - I think it was lousy sound at the venue itself). 

All shows were VERY bassy and I shaped and/or rolled off bass at around 80hz.  This generally took care of it except for one show that had ALOT of bass and artifacts.  For this show I rolled off bass at 160 hz and shaped the lower end using Har Bal (anyone else use this program?). 

So overall I have had positive experiences with the omnis.  The CA-14's in particular have done a superb job in capturing all frequencies with little to no distortion.  I have been quite impressed!  Thanks Chris Church for making such great mics!!!  Right now I am debating whether to continue my "all omni" string of recordings, or to try and do an "all card" string using the CA-14 cards.  My goal is to get a good feel for what each type sounds like in a variety of situations.