Topic: Portable recorder for loud music

[Cheesecadet]

I think the M10 internals sound nice.  I would go M10 and not look back. Solid recorder.

[earmonger]

I merely want quasi-professional quality recordings to, say, upload to my website, use as demos, and (even more merely) to listen to after rehearsals for critiquing purposes. The quality of the mics is important to me only with regard to their ability to capture all instruments as equally as possible, no matter the setup, and their tolerance of high volumes. Hence my hesitancy to buy a recorder with omnis, and hence my attraction to the H2n, whose official website wowed (tricked?) me with claims of the recorder's high level of adaptability.

Thoughts? 

We are living in a golden age of hi-fi. Probably any recorder you grabbed would give you a recording that you would be happy with as a quick-and-dirty rehearsal recording, assuming

(1) that you place it well, where the mix it is recording sounds good
 and
(2) that it doesn't overload.

I know you have researched unto insanity but do look at that B&H roundup that digifish music just posted:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/indepth/audio/hands-reviews/portable-digital-recorder-roundup

It does note that the Tascam DR-05--all of $83--is made not to overload in a rehearsal-room situation.

I don't understand why you think cards would be better. Cardioid means heart-shaped. Imagine a valentine with its point at the mic and the wider area unfolding in front. Suppose your instruments are outside that heart shape (which varies depending on the mic--there are hypercardioids that are extra narrow, but none of the internals are hypercardioids.) Omnis will behave much more like your ears....really, aaronji, we don't disagree.

Decide what features are important. If it's battery life, just get the PCM-M10. If it's multiple mic setup possibilities, get the H2N (but be gentle with it). If it's high volume, maybe you should look at the Tascams.






B

[F.O.Bean]

I personally would go the Tascam DR2D route[which does 4 channel, runs on 2xAA, and is only $125.00] or the Sony PCM-M10[which does 2 channel, runs FOREVER on 2xAA, and has an EXCELLENT Preamp/ADC Stage, at least IMHO}

While the M0 costs a bit more[$230.00], I would DEFINITELY rate the M10 Numero Uno[#1]!

[skern49]

I don't understand why you think cards would be better. Cardioid means heart-shaped. Imagine a valentine with its point at the mic and the wider area unfolding in front. Suppose your instruments are outside that heart shape (which varies depending on the mic--there are hypercardioids that are extra narrow, but none of the internals are hypercardioids.) Omnis will behave much more like your ears....really, aaronji, we don't disagree.

Decide what features are important. If it's battery life, just get the PCM-M10. If it's multiple mic setup possibilities, get the H2N (but be gentle with it). If it's high volume, maybe you should look at the Tascams.

Thank you for your response. Now that I think about it, it's not that I want cards for the sake of cards, but many of the recorders with cards can further adjust the mics' angles or positioning. My main concern is that I'll be using the same recorder to record rehearsals with several musicians as well as to record myself, solo guitar. So to sum up everything up until this point, I have the following questions/thoughts. And believe me, I'm not trying to have you convince me that the H2n is the best choice...I'd much rather be convinced that the DR-05 is the best choice because I'm broke!

1) If I used omnidirectional mics (DR-05) to record solo guitar, would this result in a poor quality recording in relation to using, say, a 90 degree X/Y configuration?

2) When recording solo guitar, would it make any sense to use the M/S feature on H2n, with absolutely no Side mic (thus resulting in a 30 degree angle from the Mid mic only, according to Zoom's website)? Rephrased: Is it correct to assume that, when recording a solo instrument, the narrower the angle the better? Or does it give the recording some pleasing sense of "breadth" when I use a wider angle (say, again, 90 degrees)?

3) If I'm recording a band with M/S, would the ability to adjust the stereo width after the fact give me more control over making sure certain instruments were captured equally? Or am I completely misunderstanding the use of M/S?

4) You mentioned the H2n's ability to simulate omnidirectional mics with its 2- or 4-channel surround sound recording. In the case of musicians spread all around the room, would this be a good choice or is it just a poor imitation of actual omnis?

Thank you.

[earmonger]

Whoa, wait a minute. I've never used the H2N, so maybe someone who has can chime in. But your questions suggest you're ready to do a bunch of post-processing that wasn't part of the original question--and really, for what you want to do, shouldn't be necessary.

There should be no problem recording your solo guitar with omnis. For more focus, put them up close. For more room reverberation, move them back.  Do a little experimenting--you know the guitarist personally, right?--and you'll find a good spot.

Mic placement is an art and science that recording engineers spend a lifetime studying, but omnis do indeed give you more of a sense of breadth.

[aaronji]

<snip>
Omnis will behave much more like your ears....really, aaronji, we don't disagree.

OK, except that I really don't think omnis behave much like your ears!   Sure, the way they work is very similar (like a pressure microphone), but the way they behave is very different.  The polar pattern of an ear is extremely complicated and highly frequency dependent.  None of the microphone patterns represent an ear well, but, if I had to pick, I'd say that at lower frequencies (maybe less than 1 kHz or so) they aren't too far from a wide card and that they get much more directional after that (by ~ 2 kHz, the ear's pick-up looks kind of like that same wide card at ~ 15 kHz).  Plus, omnis typically have extended, flat low frequency response while ears have a pretty steep low cut...

[skern49]

Whoa, wait a minute. I've never used the H2N, so maybe someone who has can chime in. But your questions suggest you're ready to do a bunch of post-processing that wasn't part of the original question--and really, for what you want to do, shouldn't be necessary.

Hmmm...I didn't mean to give off that impression. The only thing I was thinking of doing is using the H2n's ability to adjust the Side mic after recording, which seemed like a pretty useful feature. I really have no experience with this sort of stuff, because....

you know the guitarist personally, right?

I am the guitarist. I barely have the slightest idea of what post-processing even entails, and all I'd have to work with is Audacity. But it seemed like adjusting the Side mic after the fact would be easy because it's one of the features of the product itself.

Is anyone around that owns the H2n that could answer my above questions? Perhaps I should start another thread....