Topic: Large vs. Small Diaphragm Condensers

[hexyjones]

Besides the obvious size difference...is there any reason to avoid these cheaper large diaphragm condenser mics?

Like MXL, Samson, ADK, CAD...etc...

?

[Tim]

the sound is different because of the size of the diaphragms.

LD's are slower (physics is a bitch), so they don't have that bite or edge of the SD's. This isn't bad, I love(d) my u89s.. being slower they are less detailed but more "musical".. warmer and more gentle sounding. They throw a monstrous soundstage too which is nice

I've never run the ADK's but I have many, many tapes made with them.. they're very nice mics, especially for that price point!

Just be aware that LD's have a totally different sound to them than the SD's...

[John R]

get both, i did.  will be running the tl's for the first time at magfest.  looking forward to hearing the difference.

jr

[Tim]

get both, i did.  will be running the tl's for the first time at magfest.  looking forward to hearing the difference.

jr

I really would like to end up in the same position at some point. Congrats John, I didn't realize you had pulled the trigger

[John R]

get both, i did.  will be running the tl's for the first time at magfest.  looking forward to hearing the difference.

jr

I really would like to end up in the same position at some point. Congrats John, I didn't realize you had pulled the trigger

yeah, been thinking about ld's for a long while now, just didn't/don't have the juice for another pair of neumanns.  i know jeff and lee's tl's have been babied and the tl's get great reviews around here, so i figured it was a great way to jump into the pool.  i'm stoked.

jr

[Tim]

way to go John...

hopefully I'll buy back my u89s someday

[John R]

thanks you guys.

jr

[BC]

FWIW:
small diaphraghm typically have smoother off-axis response

[Tim]

FWIW:
small diaphraghm typically have smoother off-axis response

great point Ben, can't believe I missed that one...

[Tim]

I always thought the u89s were fairly forgiving off-axis too... you need to be a bit more accurate than with SD's but it's not *that* bad.

[John R]

mike, can you post or send me some pics of the tl's in action?  just looking to see how they're supported via vert bar or akg fkat bar

jr

[Tim]

I have a lot of Moke's pics saved on my HD if you need them John... uber geek

[John R]

i see that you're using the vert bar to hold up the blumlien, but what is the blumlien device?

[Nick's Picks]

whomever said that LDs are less detailed forgot to mention that this is only from a distance perhaps(?).
Up close, on an instrument or stage lip, they are very detailed....AND throw a big fat soundstage. 

[eric.B]

hmm..  i like to think of the differnces in terms of..

1. soundstage
2. off axis colour
3. attack and decay characteristics  (speed)

LD's have a slower attack and decay which may hurt detail from distances, however sometimes that is a good thing..   I personally prefer the LD sound.. much "larger" and spread out, as opposed to SD's which sound a bit tinny and "smaller" to my ears..  not that SD's are bad.. they are verrrry good..  its just preference..

[iphone]

whomever said that LDs are less detailed forgot to mention that this is only from a distance perhaps(?).
Up close, on an instrument or stage lip, they are very detailed....AND throw a big fat soundstage. 

they sound less detailed mainly because of thicker and bigger diagphram. a typical
sd condenser has 3 micron thick diaph. over 16-19 mm capsule,whereas most
ld mics have 6 micron thickness over a 25mm-24mm capsule.

why 3 micron thick ld capsules are not mass produced?

easy answer.because none of the mic manufacture has until this day produced a ld mic(34 mm) with properly tensioned 3 micron diagph capsule.

there is currently one facility on earth,who can deliever high quality tensioning and impeccable hand tuning of the capsule,that is stephen paul audio in california.

working on these low mass and thin tolerances,requires talent.mic building becomes art.

[Craig T]

they sound less detailed mainly because of thicker and bigger diagphram. a typical
sd condenser has 3 micron thick diaph. over 16-19 mm capsule,whereas most
ld mics have 6 micron thickness over a 25mm-24mm capsule.

why 3 micron thick ld capsules are not mass produced?

easy answer.because none of the mic manufacture has until this day produced a ld mic(34 mm) with properly tensioned 3 micron diagph capsule.

The ADK A51TL's use a 3u diaphram.
http://www.adkmic.com/specs/TL.html

[John R]

they sound less detailed mainly because of thicker and bigger diagphram. a typical
sd condenser has 3 micron thick diaph. over 16-19 mm capsule,whereas most
ld mics have 6 micron thickness over a 25mm-24mm capsule.

why 3 micron thick ld capsules are not mass produced?

easy answer.because none of the mic manufacture has until this day produced a ld mic(34 mm) with properly tensioned 3 micron diagph capsule.

The ADK A51TL's use a 3u diaphram.
http://www.adkmic.com/specs/TL.html

good to know that my mics are comparable to stephen paul's

[iphone]

they sound less detailed mainly because of thicker and bigger diagphram. a typical
sd condenser has 3 micron thick diaph. over 16-19 mm capsule,whereas most
ld mics have 6 micron thickness over a 25mm-24mm capsule.

why 3 micron thick ld capsules are not mass produced?

easy answer.because none of the mic manufacture has until this day produced a ld mic(34 mm) with properly tensioned 3 micron diagph capsule.

The ADK A51TL's use a 3u diaphram.
http://www.adkmic.com/specs/TL.html

does not mean it is properly tuned and tensioned.and the size is 27mm not 34mm aka ck12.the new spa mic will be the first properly tensioned and tuned 3 micron ld capsule.

[iphone]

thats what I thought, Craig, thanks.
I thought SP Audio was capable of sub-micron work, at least as fine as a single micron?
where is VA Taper when you need him?

tony is capable of doing 0.6 micron!yes for large diagp.

but it will cost ya.

[John R]

the first

ever?

[iphone]

to  my knowledge yes.maybe va-taper could step in here,as he has a spa product.

[Craig T]

does not mean it is properly tuned and tensioned.and the size is 27mm not 34mm aka ck12.the new spa mic will be the first properly tensioned and tuned 3 micron ld capsule.

saw that coming...  "properly" is a subjective term.  SPA has their reference, others may differ.  I would love to own a SPA mic, and may some day, so its no slam against their claims.

[jk labs]

they sound less detailed mainly because of thicker and bigger diagphram. a typical
sd condenser has 3 micron thick diaph. over 16-19 mm capsule,whereas most
ld mics have 6 micron thickness over a 25mm-24mm capsule.

why 3 micron thick ld capsules are not mass produced?

easy answer.because none of the mic manufacture has until this day produced a ld mic(34 mm) with properly tensioned 3 micron diagph capsule.

there is currently one facility on earth,who can deliever high quality tensioning and impeccable hand tuning of the capsule,that is stephen paul audio in california.

working on these low mass and thin tolerances,requires talent.mic building becomes art.

You got to elaborate on this. 3 micron conductive film is available and used in a number
of large (1" and bigger) condencer microphones. Granted some of them very expensive.

But your statement as it stands begs for a few pointed questions: 
How would you go about proving that all but one maker has full control on the process of diaphragm tensioning?
Heck for that matter, how do you define the term "proper tensioning" without resorting to
religion?

[jk labs]

thats what I thought, Craig, thanks.
I thought SP Audio was capable of sub-micron work, at least as fine as a single micron?
where is VA Taper when you need him?

tony is capable of doing 0.6 micron!yes for large diagp.

but it will cost ya.

And for how long would such a diaphragm stay properly tensioned?
This has been *the* challenge for many many years....  to control (read stop) the aging process.

PS Not trying to be difficult here but I think we deserve to see the facts
when such claims are made.

[John R]

thanks mike, going into my favorites