Author Topic: DPA 4061s/SP Batt. Box/AD20 - Questions and Clarification (Read 6180 times)

rsimms3 · « **on:** January 31, 2006, 06:11:42 PM »

So I recently won an eBay auction for a set of used DPA 4061s terminated in a 1/8" mini plug. I have done some research here on the boards and have some questions and clarifications as the mics are on the way and I play to put them to use on 02/20 in Grand Rapids for NIN.

1. I have read that the Sound Professionals Battery box works with the 4061s, but no other. Is this true? I want to confirm this. I have seen it listed in some gear lineages in some signatures and seen a lot of "from what I have heard" statements, but would like a definitive answer if someone can give it. I am using a SPSB-2 Battery Box now with selectable roll-off.
2. If using a Battery Box with selectable roll off, what kind of values are people using if any? I assume with the Sound Pros. box if all selectors are open that means no roll off? I have read that the 4061s can be run straight with no roll off, but no roll off has sounded like a bit too much bass for my taste and would like some suggestions. My experience with taping recently has been with AT831s primarily and one tape with AT853s. I was using 95 for roll off in those situations and it worked out well.
3. Is there a diagram for a battery box specifically for the 4061s? I was thinking of running two rigs at times, one with the 4061s>Batt. Box>iHP-120 and another with AT853s>Bat. Box.>AD20>JB3 Optical or change up the mic/pre. options with the recorders.
4. I have read one post that says going 4061s>Batt. Box>AD20>recorder is bad and ends in brickwalling while two or three others say it isn't a problem. Any recent experience with that type of setup by anyone? One comment I found said you could really push the gain really far with the rig that included the AD20.

Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated. Most of my interactions here have been in the Marketplace buying/selling/commenting. I have not been fond of omnis in the past, but figured I needed to give the 4061s a try for myself. I really liked the change when I went from omni to the AT831 cards. Hopefully the upgrade to the DPAs will work out. Eventually I would like to get into a Microtrack with a dongle and really be super stealthy. I have enjoyed Fuzn's NIN tapes and hope to get a similar sound next month with these mics, batt. box, AD20, and JB3.

-Adam

sullen · « **Reply #1 on:** February 01, 2006, 06:46:06 AM »

i can't help with ad20 or jb3, but from a dat/4061/iriver perspective:

your soundpro box will work.

you don't need ANY rolloff with these mics, that is the beauty of them, im been stealthing rock concerts
front row at dive bars in the lower east side with WAY too much bass from the stacks,
and not a hint of too much bass, even in earbuds.
they can handle it and handle it well.

your ihp-120 will power the 4061 via LINE IN without any 9volts needed
(another beautiful thing about irivers)

redbook · « **Reply #2 on:** February 01, 2006, 07:47:22 AM »

I usually run DPA4061 > AD20 (modded with 1/8") inputs > JB3/R1 or DPA4061 >> BB >> MD when I need to be megastealth.

DPA works with SP bb. I use the smallest one (the SBPB6 I think), which is really useful for stealth conditions. It does have bass roll off but never needed them.
As someone said these mics are wonderful and can receive really high SPL, specially the 4061 model. That's when the AD20 comes. I find the levels without any kind of preamp are too low running with BB. The 4061 is the low sens model, can get higher SPL (around 145db I think) but levels are not as hot as 4060. running AD20 with these is great, because you raise the levels as you might need. And of course, no risk of brickwalling (as always as you don't tape stacks and amp the Ad20 at maximum lol)

You'll really enjoy your new mics. I have never heard any complaints about DPAs

rsimms3 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 01, 2006, 07:50:23 AM »

Quote from: redbook on February 01, 2006, 07:47:22 AM

I usually run DPA4061 > AD20 (modded with 1/8") inputs > JB3/R1

How do you run the above setup? I see no power for the mics.

redbook · « **Reply #4 on:** February 01, 2006, 07:52:51 AM »

My modded AD20 is actually the SP mod, which makes the AD20 act as battery box too.
Really useful as you only need one box. Takes two batteries, but that is a really minor problem with the advantage of a single box

Aaron41 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 01, 2006, 09:15:01 AM »

I was going to ask the same question if I'd won a recent auction. I think you beat me Sullen. At least one of us is going to get to use them for NIN.

ilduclo · « **Reply #6 on:** February 02, 2006, 04:57:55 PM »

I got this set up

-dpa4061’s>sp-spsb6>d100 and, it works good, and my set up DOES need the bass roll off.
The SP bat box with roll off is like $80.

ilduc

rsimms3 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 02, 2006, 06:08:56 PM »

Quote from: ilduclo on February 02, 2006, 04:57:55 PM

I got this set up

-dpa4061’s>sp-spsb6>d100 and, it works good, and my set up DOES need the bass roll off.
The SP bat box with roll off is like $80.

ilduc

I have variable roll off, what value do you use?

zeus163 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 02, 2006, 07:36:39 PM »

I'd like to know too as I'll be going DPA4061's>sp-spsb-8>d8 (sooner or later microtracker or edirol). I'd like to know the value you use as well.

Also are you going line in or mic in?

sullen · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2006, 06:35:32 AM »

Quote from: ilduclo on February 02, 2006, 04:57:55 PM

DOES need the bass roll off.

Does it really?
Or is it a matter of preference and playback system?

fuzn · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2006, 07:45:26 PM »

Quote from: sullen on February 03, 2006, 06:35:32 AM

Quote from: ilduclo on February 02, 2006, 04:57:55 PM
DOES need the bass roll off.

Does it really?
Or is it a matter of preference and playback system?

It does not. 100% preference. They sound awesome without it but some playback systems will be pushed if it's bass heavy enough.

fuzn · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2006, 08:02:14 PM »

I think a good roll-off for these mics would be 85hz. The only time i've heard of people using roll-off with these mics, it's been that value. It's not too drastic of a cut, but it takes the edge off. Someone on this board actually made a battery box that is made just for this situation.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=53273.msg702492#msg702492
The PZane bat box.

I would just get a sp-spsb-6 from soundpros and have them mod it to be set at 85hz and take out the level controls to make it smaller. Then you have some sort of a stealthy idea still. The SP battery boxes work with pretty much anything with a 1/8 jack. Then i'd bust out the MT connector dongle that only converts 1/4 to 1/8.

You are adding one more piece of gear, but oh well.

You might want to see if soundpros is making an MT dogle that powers AND has roll-off. That would be the best solution... It may be a bit bass heavy for SOME nin shows, but I think it's worth it for cutting the size and being able to just deal with it in post. I taped them 4 times with this setup, and i'm happy with how it sounds. The one time I was pretty pissed was when the PA was screwed up and the bass was twice as loud as normal.

Another good option is the MMA6000... A very very nice pre-amp with roll-off and all that good stuff. But I would rather keep my rig to a small size and also you'd have to get microdot connectors and that's $$

+T for NIN!!

Also, the good bass has helped a ton for shows with little or no bass. Freaking sounds better than it did when I was there. (Coldplay, Autolux)

Hopefully someone helps you with the AD-20 question. I haven't had any experience with one myself.

ilduclo · « **Reply #12 on:** February 04, 2006, 09:19:28 PM »

my playback system is a old 250w sony amp w/ eq and $200 sennheiser headphones. I think I got the bass response in this setup. I think the dpa's need the rolloff. It's only $20 add on to the sp box, so wtf?

graemecogger · « **Reply #13 on:** February 05, 2006, 12:02:04 PM »

On this issue of the bass cut...
Bear in mind that the bass cut frequency is dependent on the input impedance of whatever you are running the battery box into. Something set to 85Hz will only work at exactly 85Hz into a specified input impedance. If the impedance is lower, it will roll off at a higher frequency. The iRiver would be a particularly bad case, as it has an input impedance of only 2.7K (which is very low).

cgrooves · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2006, 12:16:25 PM »

To add to what graemecogger is saying.....All battery boxes that I've come across that are not DIY are designed with a 'generic' input impedence of 10KOhm. There are threads here that list the line-in impedence values for many popular recorders being used (and none I am aware of have an impedence of 10KOhm, BTW), and list conversion charts so you know how much bass you are really rolling off the recording.

rsimms3 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2006, 03:24:24 PM »

Sounds like using the IRiver analog is not a good idea no matter what the set-up with the low input impedance. What about the setup with the AD20? That would be going 4061s > Batt. Box (variable roll off values) > AD20 > JB3 optical. Is impedance still an issue with the AD20 in there? Is the impedance issue at the AD20 or still at the JB3? Thanks for all the comments and suggestions so far. The mics should be here Monday, but I have no actual show to test with until later in the month, hopefully I can do some testing with my stereo, not the same but it is as close as I can get at this point.

rsimms3 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 07, 2006, 12:21:59 PM »

How about grids, which ones are people using? I have both sets. Thanks.

cgrooves · « **Reply #17 on:** February 07, 2006, 04:29:08 PM »

The input impedance issue we are discussing concerns the recorder only. You are being cautioned to correlate the roll-off values from your battery box (designed around a 10 KOhm impedance recorder) to the recorder you are actually using so that you don't end up rolling off a LOT more than you think you are.

What you should take from this discussion, IMO, is that you probably don't need to use bass roll-off with these mics anyway. If you want to use bass roll-off because you need to reduce the low end some, do the correlation between the SP battery box and your recorder (search threads for correlation charts) to determine what roll-off values are actually available for you with that specific combination. A custom battery box will probably be your best bet to get the roll-off values you will want.

In Summary: You need to correlate your particular battery box to your particular recorder to determine what ACTUAL roll-off values you have available for recording purposes. The same battery box (at the same roll-off setting) will provide a different roll-off value with a different recorder (if the recorders' input impedances don't match).

rsimms3 · « **Reply #18 on:** February 07, 2006, 05:58:15 PM »

Does this premise hold true for both analog and optical inputs on the JB3? That was what I was trying to clarify in the first post on this page, I have found the chart and will do the calcuations based themif it is true for optical since I will be feeding the JB3 via the AD20.

George · « **Reply #19 on:** February 07, 2006, 06:42:24 PM »

I have a pair of dpa4061's+MMA6000 preamp coming next week. So i'm wondering if anyone has ever done a comparison between the MMA6000 vs the soundpro box when the dpa's are terminated to miniplug. Basically, i'm wondering if the dpa's truely benefit from the MMA6000. Any opinions?

madman · « **Reply #20 on:** February 10, 2006, 04:10:18 PM »

Quote from: gloco on February 07, 2006, 06:42:24 PM

I have a pair of dpa4061's+MMA6000 preamp coming next week. So i'm wondering if anyone has ever done a comparison between the MMA6000 vs the soundpro box when the dpa's are terminated to miniplug. Basically, i'm wondering if the dpa's truely benefit from the MMA6000. Any opinions?

I got the MMA6k mainly to level out the dB difference between my mics (about 2.5dB) and to boost levels so I could run line-in no matter where I was. Prior to that I was running only with the DPA battery box, so I don't have any comparison to the soundpros boxes. The MMA is handy, not many shows can provide high enough levels to go line-in without a pre.

emalvido · « **Reply #21 on:** February 22, 2006, 12:43:30 PM »

So........
The recomended setup for a M1 using them would be?
DPA4061's>sp-spsb-8>M1

Via LINE IN ?

zeus163 · « **Reply #22 on:** February 23, 2006, 01:18:37 AM »

DPA 4061>SP-SPSB-8>D8

That's the set-up I used last night in Seattle going line-in. I also had the adjustable bass set at 69Hz. I was very pleased with the results.

KingReptile · « **Reply #23 on:** February 23, 2006, 01:38:26 AM »

Quote from: gloco on February 07, 2006, 06:42:24 PM

I have a pair of dpa4061's+MMA6000 preamp coming next week. So i'm wondering if anyone has ever done a comparison between the MMA6000 vs the soundpro box when the dpa's are terminated to miniplug. Basically, i'm wondering if the dpa's truely benefit from the MMA6000. Any opinions?

The MMA 6000 is more detailed,less muddy..

ilduclo · « **Reply #24 on:** March 01, 2006, 02:29:53 PM »

zeus163, what show did you tape with that set up?

Lotsa SPL's ?

Is your M1 modded?

I did a loud show with mic in using same set up, bad brickwalling! I'm hoping that the loud shows I can do line in with out a pre.

I've got this set up now dpa4061’s>sp-spsb6>tcdd100 ( or can go to my Sharp MDMT770 Minidsc, which doesn't ever brickwall!)

KingReptile · « **Reply #25 on:** March 01, 2006, 10:33:07 PM »

Quote from: ilduclo on March 01, 2006, 02:29:53 PM

zeus163, what show did you tape with that set up?

Lotsa SPL's ?

Is your M1 modded?

I did a loud show with mic in using same set up, bad brickwalling! I'm hoping that the loud shows I can do line in with out a pre.

I've got this set up now dpa4061’s>sp-spsb6>tcdd100 ( or can go to my Sharp MDMT770 Minidsc, which doesn't ever brickwall!)

Read his post it says he ran line in..Loud rock shows run with your TCD-D100 line in ..As long as you dont bury it way past zero you shouldnt brickwall..If your just getting started run your levels conservative -6 to -4..

ilduclo · « **Reply #26 on:** March 02, 2006, 03:31:11 PM »

thangs, kingrep!