Topic: Microphone for classical tenor

[WiFiJeff]

I taped a tenor recital last week with an AKG C426B (cardioid, XY), found the voice sounds a bit metalic, which was true of the live sound but seems more pronounced on the tape.  Would I be better off with a ribbon mic, or some other type for voice?  Is there any editing suggestion for toning down a slightly metalic ring?

Jeff

[WiFiJeff]

Was there a PA involved?  How close were you?

No PA (this was a classical recital), and I was a bit further back than I normally mic, maybe six feet away, with the piano a few feet behind the singer (that came out fine).  I was using a DaviSound TB12 preamp and a Sonosax MiniR82, a combination I have used a few times in this venue for instrumental music, without the edge.

Jeff

[Brian]

if you have access to a neumann m49, that has always been revered as a "go-to" microphone for classical recordings.

A ribbon microphone would be a great choice(less costly than an m49 for sure) as well if you want to smooth out a recording in higher frequencies.

[muj]

I taped a tenor recital last week with an AKG C426B (cardioid, XY), found the voice sounds a bit metalic, which was true of the live sound but seems more pronounced on the tape.  Would I be better off with a ribbon mic, or some other type for voice?  Is there any editing suggestion for toning down a slightly metalic ring?

Jeff

have you tried eq'ing?


about the ribbon..the crowley and tripp guys are registered at ts. maybe they should chime in

[WiFiJeff]

have you tried eq'ing?

Yes, it didn't help, but that may be because I don't know what the f@ I'm doing with these Wavelab plugins.  Gotta find a copy of "EQing for Dummies" somewhere.

Jeff

[muj]

have you tried eq'ing?

Yes, it didn't help, but that may be because I don't know what the f@ I'm doing with these Wavelab plugins.  Gotta find a copy of "EQing for Dummies" somewhere.

Jeff

that's why i love outboard gear


try focusing at the 200 hz to 1khz range , most likely sround 1k and above, the problem is most likely the tenors voice pushing some nasty resonances.

[ghellquist]

I guess first stop for next recording would be to run MS instead of XY. This allows the M capsule to point directly at the singer, instead of both having him off centre. There are of course a lot of different mics to choose from but from my experience a Schoeps MK4 capsule may be a very good bet. Place it on a CMC5 or CMC6 body. This will give you the singer in mono. If you want stereo of the orchestra/ accompaniment I would add an AB pair of two omnis and mix them to taste.

Gunnar

[Brian]

I guess first stop for next recording would be to run MS instead of XY. This allows the M capsule to point directly at the singer, instead of both having him off centre. There are of course a lot of different mics to choose from but from my experience a Schoeps MK4 capsule may be a very good bet. Place it on a CMC5 or CMC6 body. This will give you the singer in mono. If you want stereo of the orchestra/ accompaniment I would add an AB pair of two omnis and mix them to taste.

Gunnar

^^^^^^ great advice!

[ghellquist]

The mic does handle an XY setup quite well. But my guess is that you will get a little better results in MS. The reasoning I do here, not having used the C426B myself but other LDC-s, is that it is a large diameter mic. And to generalize heavily (you should never do that) large diameter mics can have an uneven frequency response off-axis. All mics are uneven to some degree, small diameter (to generalize again) less so. Regardless, trying to get the best out of the equipment you have should be a good thing.

Other things you want to try is mic placement. In recording acoustic sources I find that moving the mic a few feet can make a dramatic difference. I have never found any rules except listening critically when placing the mic. Sometimes a mic placed too low can have problems with sound reflecting off the floor as well as coming directly into the mic, sometimes this is not an issue. My patent solution generally is to get the mics rather high, generally at least 10 feet above the stage floor. But patent solutions does not work every time.

You might want to look in the rest of you recording equipment, if you mentionen what you used I must have missed that. Preamp and recorder can both affect the sound.

If you are thinking about changing mics, do check out your local rental houses and music stores. My best advice is to test a rented or borrowed mic in the very situation before committing to buying. Sadly, in this kind of setup I would say you are looking a the top segment as far as price goes. The Chinese low-price mics you see a lot of today are not really aimed at this application (perhaps I should say yet) and to my ears they simply do not give me what I want to have. 

[jnorman34]

i wouldnt recommend a ribbon for this application, since the mic will need to be placed a bit farther away than in a studio setting.  i agree with the above suggestion - i would use a schoeps cmc6/mk41 for this app.  the AKG should be perfect for capturing the ensemble in toto.

as far as your original comment - you are not using any compression, are you?  compression can often lend a metallic feel to acoustic music if not handled properly, and in general you do not want to use any compression on classical material.  otherwise, i would guess you may have a very ringy venue, or there is something else going on that you havent quite pinned down yet.

[WiFiJeff]

No, no compression.  I try to get things right at first shot because 1) it's cleaner; and 2) I'm lazy.

A friend who does this pro tells me that part of the problem is a mid-range boost (though it's not in the spec sheet) on AKGs, in the 2000-4000 Hz area, and I find that to get any improvement from EQing this is where I have to go, so I believe him.  He also says it's most pronounced in straight cardioid configuration, which may be why I didn't get it to this extent taping a soprano Blumlein a few weeks ago.  He also thinks ribbon is not a good choice, too narrow a field for a possibly moving target.  So I'll probably revert to baffled omnis for the next singer (but AKG 426 Blumlein for piano/violin today seems to have come out very nice indeed).

Jeff

[runbux]

Can your 426 do Blumlein? (I can't remember, I haven't used an AKG stereo mic in probably 25 years!) They're good mics, and also usable as a baseball bat! Of course, M/S will usually have better audience noise rejection than Blumlein, and you can modify the M/S image in post production, but I have always preferred Blumlein just because it sounds so pleasing.

Schoeps makes good ribbon mics, but you should also try one of the the two-element Blumlein ribbon mics that I bought from Spieden years ago. It's still available, but I don't have a link at hand. Very reasonably priced, too. Don't place them under any air conditioning ducts.

IMHO, after doing professional Classical recording for a few decades, I'd probably just put out a couple condenser omnis (BK4003 or Sennheiser) spaced about, approximately, somewhere around 2/3 as far apart as they are from the source. Also, I'd move them up and down to establish a good front/rear balance. Don't be concerned if the spacing or height are different for each mic, even if somebody complains about it "looking funny." Of course, spaced omnis aren't coincident, so if you need stereo/monaural compatibility, it's not a good bet. Personally, I prefer the spacious image of the spaced pair, unless I'm recording for broadcast. That's when it's time to go with the Blumlein.

Remember, the room (and audience) sound is an integral part of any concert music recording. You'll never control the recording situation like we can in a studio.

[WiFiJeff]

I do usually use the AKG 426 Blumlein, but was trying to minimize the audience noise that day.  I have run into problems with the air conditioning, once they forgot to turn it down to low and I had a back lobe of the Blumlein setup pointed right at one vent (for some reason I couledn't hear it on my monitoring headphones).  I EQed that out but it wasn't pretty.  Next time I have a single vocalist and piano I'll be making sure the singer is square on-axis for the recording if I use directional mics.

Jeff