Topic: V3 and running a backup

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

I'm going to be running my V3 analog out > DV-RA1000, I'd like to run a DAT backup as well.  If I enable the ANSR does it have any affect on my analog output or is it only applied to the signal coming out of the A/D? 

Q:The dither circuit is a key feature of the V3. Can you explain the benefits of ANSR ® ?
A: ANSR ® (Analog Noise Shaped Reduction) is a unique word length reduction system that’s based on truly random, analog, noise shaped dither and generates noise with a gaussian probability distribution. The signal is then shaped with a carefully designed filter network that decreases noise energy in the most audible frequency bands. It is then summed with the audio signal at a level of ½ LSB (Least Significant Bit) for 16 and 20 bit recording systems. The benefits to users includes; much improved linearity over TPD, (Triangular Probability Density) the process is less audible than “white” noise, and truly random noise is employed instead of pseudo random noise. You, of course, will be the final judge but we believe that Grace Designs' new ANSR ® dither circuit may well become the dither standard by which others are judged.

[Nick Graham]

Doesn't affect the analog out put. I ran S/PDIF>D8 and XLR>SBM1>D100 once for a comp.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

No it won't. But you'll be at a really low digital output, because to properly run the V3 in analog, you want to only peak at the first set of red lights at -9dB. So you'd have some powerful tall level increasing to do in post, along with all the processing and room noise, etc.
Run out of the dsd rear end. Even if recording stops for some reason, it leaves you in monitor mode, and getting signal. I know its not a "proper backup", but the signal still goes thru. Now if you're running low on battery to the inverter, and at risk of shutting down, thats entirely different. I've run out of the rear of the dsd a couple of times now with really nice results.

Shite, didn't take that into consideration yet.  I need to break up w/the Gf so I can play with this thing some more.  

From the DV's manual:

The DV-RA1000 can accept and ouput both balanced +4bDu and unbalanced -10dBV signals.

From the V3 manual:

+4dBu = -21dBFS, it should be green, the first amber light should come on at -9dBFS or +16dBu  

Damn that's low!

My largest concern is complete power failure, I'm assuming the Tascam will not pass analog signal if it completely shuts down.   Why couldn't they make the V2 with levels?  I'd buy one used in a heartbeat.

[Brian Skalinder]

to properly run the V3 in analog, you want to only peak at the first set of red lights at -9dB. So you'd have some powerful tall level increasing to do in post, along with all the processing and room noise, etc.

Perhaps an inexpensive pair of line transformers will bump the gain enough to run into whatever ADC / recording device you choose.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

to properly run the V3 in analog, you want to only peak at the first set of red lights at -9dB. So you'd have some powerful tall level increasing to do in post, along with all the processing and room noise, etc.

Perhaps an inexpensive pair of line transformers will bump the gain enough to run into whatever ADC / recording device you choose.

Just to clarify, he meant the digital signal would be weak, meaning the v3 dig out > m1 levels would be low since you would be running the v3 with little gain to accomplish the analog levels you need for the Tascam.

That does bring up another question though, thanks Brian!  Would it be a bad idea to run a pad on the analog > DV-RA so that I could run a hotter signal and achieve better levels for the digital out? 

Please correct me if I'm wrong, when the Tascam manual says The DV-RA1000 can accept and ouput both balanced +4bDu and unbalanced -10dBV signals. means that (by the V3 manual) I would want to run levels at -21dBFS which is +4dBu balanced analog out.  If I were to pad the analog out -20db to achieve +4dBu I could run the V3 up to +24 (+25 brings up the red light).  Basically I could rely on the V3's meters and have a nice hot signal. 

3 things:

- How much would a -20db pad impact the signal sound wise and is there any substantial inherent noise involved?
- Should I be even considering optimizing this setup to run a backup, is the loss if any worth the gain?
- I don't know if there's anything to it, but I've always thought the V3 sounded better when I ran it hot, but that could have been other factors.  Any personal opinions out there?

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

you can also run in gain mode cleanly, and have a ton of attenuation available to you.
12dB up, -72dB down.

This is what I'm getting hung up on: The DV-RA1000 can accept and ouput both balanced +4bDu and unbalanced -10dBV signals

Would the signal be too hot for the Tascam?  Whats the threshold the analog input on the Tascam can handle, it's not something I could find in the specs?  My concern would be that running the signal too hot would brickwall the input of the Tascam, similar to the issue with the M1.  Even though you'd be applying attenuation to the signal, the input level could be too strong.  If it were applying attenuation mechanically I wouldn't worry about it, but it's through circuitry.  I can't believe they don't list signal thresholds in the manual.

Wednesday is the maiden voyage, I'll throw a hot analog signal at it tomorrow (Sun) in the living room and see what results I get.

[Genghis Cougar Mellen Khan]

Don't worry about the numbers. Just run 1st red light as hard peaks, @ -9dB, and you'll be good. If you get daring, push a little harder, and note the results. No need to go red-line off the start with the new engine!
 Also, unbalance your output, go rca input, and you've cut the signal by a chunk.

I have a cheesy unbalanced cable I made from a rat-shack RCA cable, unshielded.  I'd run it with the SLA, but I'm suppose to get that Mon-Tues, my concern would be inherent noise from the inverter/dc power. 

Overthinking
Overanalyzing
Separates the body from the mind
Withering my intuition
Missing opportunities and I must
Feed my will to feel thy moment
Drawing way outside the lines

Setting this up for a dry run tomorrow... 

[Brian Skalinder]

Just to clarify, he meant the digital signal would be weak, meaning the v3 dig out > m1 levels would be low since you would be running the v3 with little gain to accomplish the analog levels you need for the Tascam.

Oops, I had it backwards.  Thanks for the clarification.  Can't help with the attenuator questions since I've never run 'em.