Topic: Has anyone run a V3 with the 722 ?

[Jonathan_Hatgis]

This might be a silly question, and if it is I apologize, but I am curious as to whether or not anyone has run the 722 with an external preamp, specificly the v3.  I assume that the quality of the preamp in the 722 is superb and an external one is not necessary, but I would like to know if any of you have conducted any experiments, and what your results might have been.  I have a few shows in atlantic city this weekend that I need to be prepared for, and this is my first leap out of the dat realm.  Any and all advice will be appreciated. 
Thank you kindly.

Jonathan

[Nick Graham]

I know this will probably be of no help whatsoever, and isn't exactly what you asked, but here's everal V3>722 sources:

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=28518 (DPA 4023 / Garaj Mahal)

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=29656 (Neumann KM140 / 311)

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=29306 (DPA 4022 / Robert Randolph)

http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=22748 (DPA 4022 / Big Head Todd & The Monsters)

[Brian Skalinder]

I think there's a comparison or two of V3 > 722 and straight 722.  Try a search for keywords:  '722' 'V3' 'comp' and I bet you can dig it up.  Whether the files are still available for d/l, I don't know, but if you find the thread and they're not available - maybe post to the old thread to see if someone can rehost.

[F.O.Bean]

have fun at the drum-off jon

[Cooker]

I think that more people that have decided to run V3 > 722 are going analog out of the V3  > line in on the 722, than are going digi out to the 722. but that's just my unscientific observation.   

anyway, this is Hatgis asking the question. He might remember to charge his 6V once for every three shows he tapes. leave that shit at home!! 

[mmedley.]

Head over to digitalpanic.org and grab some of the 24bits. There are plenty of XXX > V3 (analog out) > 722 recordings and they sound stellar!

[Jonathan_Hatgis]

oh Cooke, how I love thee

thank you for the input fellas.  I think I'm going to run straight TLM170's > 722 for the first night, and if I like it then I'm not even going to mess around with adding the V3.

Thank you.

[Jonathan_Hatgis]

besides, who needs batteries when the band gives you a/c power

the power just has problems once every 40 or so shows I tape.  Glad that's over.

[Cooker]

yeah. you can buy extra 722 batteries at any best buy or camera store.   glad to see you made the jump. look forward to hearing the tapes!

+T

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I think I'm going to run straight TLM170's > 722 for the first night, and if I like it then I'm not even going to mess around with adding the V3.

Give it a try alone, but I strongly recommend you run several shows direct to 722 and then several shows using the V3 preamp before you decide to ditch the V3.  If you haven't run the 722 before, you will be blown away by the quality but you must resist the urge to be satisfied. 

I tried all three ways - 722 alone, V3 dig>722 and V3 line>722 and the V3line>722 is absolutely the best of the three to my ears.  I have been running both DPA4023s and Neumann AK40/AK43 across those three configurations.  The 722 alone isn't bad and I don't have any reservations running it alone for low profile work, but otherwise I always use the V3 preamp because it's worth the difference in the final product.

Edit:  Oh and another benefit of the V3 in front is that it can feed a 16-bit signal to patchers, if that is something you like to offer.

[Jonathan_Hatgis]

I think I'm going to run straight TLM170's > 722 for the first night, and if I like it then I'm not even going to mess around with adding the V3.

Give it a try alone, but I strongly recommend you run several shows direct to 722 and then several shows using the V3 preamp before you decide to ditch the V3.  If you haven't run the 722 before, you will be blown away by the quality but you must resist the urge to be satisfied. 

I tried all three ways - 722 alone, V3 dig>722 and V3 line>722 and the V3line>722 is absolutely the best of the three to my ears.  I have been running both DPA4023s and Neumann AK40/AK43 across those three configurations.  The 722 alone isn't bad and I don't have any reservations running it alone for low profile work, but otherwise I always use the V3 preamp because it's worth the difference in the final product.

Edit:  Oh and another benefit of the V3 in front is that it can feed a 16-bit signal to patchers, if that is something you like to offer.

This is sound advice, and is definitely my course of action before I decide to dismiss the V3.  Thank you.

[Jonathan_Hatgis]

Lil' Kim Jong-Il, for me, the 2 shows I will be recording this weekend are very important.  If it were you, with what you have said, would you run My tlm170's > V3 line > 722 for these shows, if they were as important to you as they are to me?

Thank you in advance  

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

Yeah, based on what I hear in my recordings I would run just like that: TLM170>V3line>722 and then run the 722 alone at another show.

I really prefer the V3 preamp.  The ADC section could go either way for some people, but over time I have found that I like the ADC of the 722 better.  It seems to be smoother on playback than the V3.

Don't get me wrong.  The 722 alone doesn't suck.  I just don't like the bass response of the mic preamp.  The bass seems to be flatter and tighter with the V3.  I really noticed it when I ran the AK43s.  I think some other people might agree.  I see lots of other mic pres in front of the 722 in the field.

[Jonathan_Hatgis]

Thank you.  You've been most helpful

[mhibbs]

  I see lots of other mic pres in front of the 722 in the field.

So far, I've been running my m148 or my friend's m248 in front of my 722 in the field.  The only comp I've done was in my living room w/ the 4s>m148>722 and 4s>722 and I found the midrange to be fuller sounding w/ the m148 but that test has been my only basis of comparison so far.  Plan to do a m148, m248, and 722 solo run at the house sometime soon.  It's not really a fair comparison for the field, but at least it's a consistent test.

[bkirby]

I have been meaning to do a test, and I'll see if I have time to do this either tonight or tomorrow night. If I put this on disc, will someone upload it for me somewhere?

MK21 > KC5 > CMC6XT > M148 > V3 > SD722
MK21 > KC5 > CMC6XT > M148 > SD722
MK21 > KC5 > CMC6XT > V3 (line out) > SD722
MK21 > KC5 > CMC6XT > V3 (24/96) > SD722
MK21 > KC5 > CMC6XT > SD722

It will be a home test and I will use the same song and make levels as equal as I can. I can also try this with the MK41 caps and the MGs. I will try and get this done ASAP...

[bagtagsell]

MK21 > KC5 > CMC6XT > M148 > V3 > SD722

thats one expensive hd recorder

[T.J.]

I have a few shows in atlantic city this weekend that I need to be prepared for, and this is my first leap out of the dat realm. 

good luck with the new rig jon. they should be a couple interesting shows. looking foward to hearing the "tapes" +T

[pilgrims622]

If you are into Panic at all, I just ran: Neumann ak40 > lc3 > km100 > Lunatec V3(analog out) > 722 @ 24/96...I absolutely love the V3(analog out)>722 combo...It sounds so sweet with the Neumanns...24bit really makes the Neumanns shine!!! 

10/30 http://digitalpanic.org/btforums/showthread.php?t=12942 
10/31 http://digitalpanic.org/btforums/showthread.php?t=12871

Put it this way...I dont own a 722, but since I have run it with the Neumanns and v3, I am only weeks away from ordering my own, but I am looking at the 744 

[Jonathan_Hatgis]

thank you so much for the input, everyone 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I've been basking in the single device glow of the 722..  How comparable is V2 > 722 vs. V3 line > 722?   I know that the V2 lacks the good meters of the V3, but that wouldn't matter with the 722 meters.

I still haven't tried mme > 722.  Anyone done any minime > 722 comps? How about 24/96 out of a minime via AES?

Somewhat related to this thread, has anyone noticed an impact from using simple XLR splitter cables?  Having two preamps wired-in changes the impedance of the system, etc, no?

[JasonSobel]

I've been basking in the single device glow of the 722..  How comparable is V2 > 722 vs. V3 line > 722?   I know that the V2 lacks the good meters of the V3, but that wouldn't matter with the 722 meters.

in theory, the V2 > 722 would be identical to the V3 (line out) > 722, because the V3 has the same pre-amp as the V2.  in actuality, Mike Grace had to change one or two minor parts in the pre-amp for the v3, so it is not absolutely identical to the V2.  in practice though, it is generally regarded as the same pre-amp.  another advantage that the V3 has, in addition to the meters, is the ability to give a 16 bit S/PDIF output to patchers.  that may or may not be a consideration.

[pilgrims622]

another advantage that the V3 has, in addition to the meters, is the ability to give a 16 bit S/PDIF output to patchers.  that may or may not be a consideration.

This is very true and when I get a 7series recorder, I will still run the jb3 as backup...

This summer I ran v3(analog)>744@24/96, v3(opti)>jb3@16/48, and v3(s/pdif)>M1@16/48...always good to have backup

[Zee]

I've been basking in the single device glow of the 722..  How comparable is V2 > 722 vs. V3 line > 722?   I know that the V2 lacks the good meters of the V3, but that wouldn't matter with the 722 meters.

in theory, the V2 > 722 would be identical to the V3 (line out) > 722, because the V3 has the same pre-amp as the V2.  in actuality, Mike Grace had to change one or two minor parts in the pre-amp for the v3, so it is not absolutely identical to the V2.  in practice though, it is generally regarded as the same pre-amp.  another advantage that the V3 has, in addition to the meters, is the ability to give a 16 bit S/PDIF output to patchers.  that may or may not be a consideration.

I love the sound of 4022>V2>722

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

I love the sound of 4022>V2>722

I've run 4023>V3>722 several times now and it's about as close to pure sex as you can get without ruining the resale value of your speakers.

[MattD]

You can always add sex to your playback system.

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

You can always add sex to your playback system.

  Nice.

[Jonathan_Hatgis]

I've been basking in the single device glow of the 722..  How comparable is V2 > 722 vs. V3 line > 722?   I know that the V2 lacks the good meters of the V3, but that wouldn't matter with the 722 meters.

I still haven't tried mme > 722.  Anyone done any minime > 722 comps? How about 24/96 out of a minime via AES?

Somewhat related to this thread, has anyone noticed an impact from using simple XLR splitter cables?  Having two preamps wired-in changes the impedance of the system, etc, no?

I have a minime that needs slight work done to it, I'm thinking of getting it done, running that comparrison as well.  I will post about it when I do, but it wont be for quite some time, as I just spent a lot of money on the 722!

[Lil Kim Jong-Il]

the 2 shows I will be recording this weekend

What, no update? 

How did you like the V3 line>722?

[Cooker]

better question: which drummer did you like the best?

[thegreatgumbino]

Edit:  Oh and another benefit of the V3 in front is that it can feed a 16-bit signal to patchers, if that is something you like to offer.

another advantage that the V3 has, in addition to the meters, is the ability to give a 16 bit S/PDIF output to patchers.  that may or may not be a consideration.

So the V3 will output an analog signal to the 722 that will be recorded at 24 bit, and by turning on the V3 "ANSR", the V3 will output a dithered 16 bit signal via the digital outs, correct?

[JasonSobel]

Edit:  Oh and another benefit of the V3 in front is that it can feed a 16-bit signal to patchers, if that is something you like to offer.

another advantage that the V3 has, in addition to the meters, is the ability to give a 16 bit S/PDIF output to patchers.  that may or may not be a consideration.

So the V3 will output an analog signal to the 722 that will be recorded at 24 bit, and by turning on the V3 "ANSR", the V3 will output a dithered 16 bit signal via the digital outs, correct?

exactly,  the analog outs on the V3 are directly from the pre-amp section and completely independent of the A/D of the V3.

[thegreatgumbino]

Thanks, Jason.  +T

[Brian Skalinder]

So the V3 will output an analog signal to the 722 that will be recorded at 24 bit, and by turning on the V3 "ANSR", the V3 will output a dithered 16 bit signal via the digital outs, correct?

Don't know if it matters for your purposes, but note that V3's with serial # < V3497 have out of phase analog and digital outputs.

[thegreatgumbino]

So the V3 will output an analog signal to the 722 that will be recorded at 24 bit, and by turning on the V3 "ANSR", the V3 will output a dithered 16 bit signal via the digital outs, correct?

Don't know if it matters for your purposes, but note that V3's with serial # < V3497 have out of phase analog and digital outputs.

Thank Brian.  I just sent mine to Grace earlier this week.  +T

[Stagger]

I've been basking in the single device glow of the 722..  How comparable is V2 > 722 vs. V3 line > 722?   I know that the V2 lacks the good meters of the V3, but that wouldn't matter with the 722 meters.

in theory, the V2 > 722 would be identical to the V3 (line out) > 722, because the V3 has the same pre-amp as the V2.  in actuality, Mike Grace had to change one or two minor parts in the pre-amp for the v3, so it is not absolutely identical to the V2.  in practice though, it is generally regarded as the same pre-amp.  another advantage that the V3 has, in addition to the meters, is the ability to give a 16 bit S/PDIF output to patchers.  that may or may not be a consideration.

I was thinking of the V3 when I started putting my new rig together but when a V2 became available it just made so much more sense. For about half the price I dispatched with a A>D that I wasn't going to use (sorry patchers) and meters that are redundant. I couldn't be happier with the sound though.

[F.O.Bean]

I've been basking in the single device glow of the 722..  How comparable is V2 > 722 vs. V3 line > 722?   I know that the V2 lacks the good meters of the V3, but that wouldn't matter with the 722 meters.

in theory, the V2 > 722 would be identical to the V3 (line out) > 722, because the V3 has the same pre-amp as the V2.  in actuality, Mike Grace had to change one or two minor parts in the pre-amp for the v3, so it is not absolutely identical to the V2.  in practice though, it is generally regarded as the same pre-amp.  another advantage that the V3 has, in addition to the meters, is the ability to give a 16 bit S/PDIF output to patchers.  that may or may not be a consideration.

I was thinking of the V3 when I started putting my new rig together but when a V2 became available it just made so much more sense. For about half the price I dispatched with a A>D that I wasn't going to use (sorry patchers) and meters that are redundant. I couldn't be happier with the sound though.

exact reason i sold my v3, now i need a v2 to compliment the sax tho

[ford prefect]

maybe post to the old thread to see if someone can rehost.

Or bump it into the archive under Open Source Audio.