Topic: Linking two R-44s for 8-channel?

[acidjack]

I read the R-44 manual about this, but after it said to connect the two decks using the "CTRL-SYNC" connection and a stereo mini cable I became suspicious that this would not do what I want.

Two of us will have an R-44 with 4 mics connected to it.  What we *want* to do is have them simultaneously stop/start, but to record using the mics connected to them, so we can do an 8-mic, time-synced mix (I realize it may not be bit-perfect, but it will be more perfect than saying "Hit REC NOW!" to each other...)

Does simply connecting two R-44s, assigning one as "Master" and one as "Slave", using a stereo mini cable, do the trick for the above?  From reading the manual I can't tell if all this does is sync two R-44s to record the SAME signal (i.e., simply make one R-44 the backup of the other). 

Thanks in advance for the help. Trying this tomorrow so the sooner I hear the better.  Cheers.

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I read the R-44 manual about this, but after it said to connect the two decks using the "CTRL-SYNC" connection and a stereo mini cable I became suspicious that this would not do what I want.

Two of us will have an R-44 with 4 mics connected to it.  What we *want* to do is have them simultaneously stop/start, but to record using the mics connected to them, so we can do an 8-mic, time-synced mix (I realize it may not be bit-perfect, but it will be more perfect than saying "Hit REC NOW!" to each other...)

Does simply connecting two R-44s, assigning one as "Master" and one as "Slave", using a stereo mini cable, do the trick for the above?  From reading the manual I can't tell if all this does is sync two R-44s to record the SAME signal (i.e., simply make one R-44 the backup of the other). 

Thanks in advance for the help. Trying this tomorrow so the sooner I hear the better.  Cheers.

I swear I recall someone here doing a test, and the results are that they start and stop correctly, but they arn't clocked together so you end up using similar methods that are used when you have two different recorders. I think the R44 is bit-perfect on it's digital in, so you could slave one of them and burn two channels and get 6 out of it that are clocked synced, but that might not be enough for what you are looking for.

I think it's in the recorder thread Pt2.

[Ozpeter]

A colleague is using a pair of these for classic location recordings (8 inputs) and he says he has no trouble with sync.  I've used mine for audio while shooting video on a Panasonic GH1 DSLR for 50+ minutes at a time and they stayed locked (it seemed to me) with no noticable drift.  So I'd expect a pair of R-44's to stay PDC (pretty damn close) in time with each other even unsynced.

[page]

A colleague is using a pair of these for classic location recordings (8 inputs) and he says he has no trouble with sync.  I've used mine for audio while shooting video on a Panasonic GH1 DSLR for 50+ minutes at a time and they stayed locked (it seemed to me) with no noticable drift.  So I'd expect a pair of R-44's to stay PDC (pretty damn close) in time with each other even unsynced.

my 722 and korg are only off by about 1100 samples after an hour, but they are off.

I didn't fully realize the value of word clock until I had it.

[kirk97132]

I had used two R-44's and the clocks were not the same.  Even edirol will support this.  When I called them they were like yep, they will not clock the same even if they are the same deck.  For the two decks I used, it began to show up at about 20 mins in.  You could hear the drum hits starting to sound like delay. 

[yltfan]

Trade in one of them for a DR-680!

[Gutbucket]

What we *want* to do is have them simultaneously stop/start, but to record using the mics connected to them, so we can do an 8-mic, time-synced mix (I realize it may not be bit-perfect, but it will be more perfect than saying "Hit REC NOW!" to each other...)

That's exactly what it does.

(just clarifying what the others have stated)
If you both have R-44s, then setting one to MASTER and the other to SLAVE and connecting them with a stereo mini TRS to stereo mini TRS cable will simply sync the transport control functions, but not the sampling clocks.   You'll end up with 4 tracks from each recorder, 8 separate tracks total.  The sync feature on the R-44 takes care of the initial alignment of tracks between the two recorders.  Not perfectly to single-sample accuracy, but probably close enough. The clocks can still drift once recording starts.  Whether the drift is significant or not depends on the two particular recorders. If the clocks match well then you can record for longer before you notice any drift.

Crystal oscillators are somewhat effected by temperature.  Although I doubt it would be very significant, your chances of them staying in close sync might be slightly improved if the recorders are kept at the same temperature.  So it's a good idea not to leave one running in the sun and the other in the shade and easy enough to do.  If anyone has the technical expertise to confirm or refute if this would have any appreciable effect, please let me know.  It may have no real world significance.

FWIW, when I'm recording 4 channels and the R-44 is not an option (it doesn’t fit into my pocket), I run two R-09s and hit record simultaneously on both decks.  Once aligned, the timing difference is very close and usually not a problem over the course of an hour and a half or so.   Interestingly, the sync does not drift appreciably over the course of many, many hours when playing back from the recorders themselves- using the same clock for playback as recording.  In that situation the differences between clocks essentially cancel out.

[dream]

What we *want* to do is have them simultaneously stop/start, but to record using the mics connected to them, so we can do an 8-mic, time-synced mix (I realize it may not be bit-perfect, but it will be more perfect than saying "Hit REC NOW!" to each other...)

That's exactly what it does.

(just clarifying what the others have stated)
If you both have R-44s, then setting one to MASTER and the other to SLAVE and connecting them with a stereo mini TRS to stereo mini TRS cable will simply sync the transport control functions, but not the sampling clocks.   

Interestingly on page 80 of the R-44 manual you can read:

"Control Sync Jack
Stereo Mini Type
Word clock sync and start/stop remote control of 2 units"

[rastasean]

June's sound on sound magazine discusses word clocks for the studio but it is interesting to read about them just to understand a little more.

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/jun10/articles/masterclocks.htm

[Gutbucket]

Interestingly on page 80 of the R-44 manual you can read:

"Control Sync Jack
Stereo Mini Type
Word clock sync and start/stop remote control of 2 units"

Yep.. and that's been the source of confusion.  It was reported to work that way, but that may be a misprint.  Not many use the recorders linked togther this way so it hasn't been discussed much.  AFIAK, kirkd 1st reported his experience with the clock sync issue and talked with Edirol about it, who told him no clock sync.  At that point I assumed the work clock sync mentioned in the manual was a misprint.  I've never run two machines linked together myself.

[Ozpeter]

At risk of insulting my fellow members who have tried this and found problems - you did use a stereo linking cable, yes?  I could imagine the one leg of the connection would control transport and the other would provide clocking.  Use only a mono cable and perhaps you'd get transport sync but not clock sync.  I'd be surprised if the sync wasn't clock too as it wouldn't be at all hard for them to do. 

However, things do get mis-stated by manufacturers, like the claim that two Tascam 680's can be linked for 16 channels - which is impossible as one channel on each device is used for the sync control, so 14 is the max.

[bgreen]

However, things do get mis-stated by manufacturers, like the claim that two Tascam 680's can be linked for 16 channels - which is impossible as one channel on each device is used for the sync control, so 14 is the max.

Actually it's 12 max inputs plus 2 stereo mix downs to make a total of 16 ;-)

[pinknoise]

I've observed the waveform Word CLock at the stereo mini-plug's ring in Master Sync mode.
So, Owners manual is not miss print, i think.
you try to stereo cable,again!

[kirk97132]

However, things do get mis-stated by manufacturers, like the claim that two Tascam 680's can be linked for 16 channels - which is impossible as one channel on each device is used for the sync control, so 14 is the max.

Actually it's 12 max inputs plus 2 stereo mix downs to make a total of 16 ;-)

Actually you can record 8 channels on master deck and 6 on slave deck for a total of 14 separate channels and then you also have two channels of mix down available on the slave deck.  This also requires an external SPDIF input in order to use channel #7 & #8.  You would then send the output from your RCA spdif into the slave deck.  But I believe you are limited to the 6 channels on the slave deck for mixdown.  You can record 14 synced channels with two decks and can slave as many decks as you want to the master.  but each slave deck will be limited to 6 channels.

[yug du nord]

^^^I might be wrong.....  but doesn't a clock source need to sync'd with a digital connection?