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Author Topic: Rules and eitiquette of multi-track recording off soundboard  (Read 3260 times)

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Offline 6079

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Rules and eitiquette of multi-track recording off soundboard
« on: November 10, 2008, 11:43:10 PM »
I'm new to this, so my questions may be incomplete and misguided.

I haven't had a chance to check out too many soundboards, but the one I did see recently had approximately 12 XLR outputs on the back, that would be easy to connect to, from my recollection.
Is that what a taper would have to connect their multi-track recorder to?  Or are there other areas where the engineer would have to be more involved in helping you set this up?  Do most soundboards in mid-level / theater / club venues have the outputs available for each mic used on stage / channel of music?

That leads to the question of "what does each output contain" in regard to the instruments, and also the way to collaborate with the engineer because he would be the one to know. 

As I try to imagine this, it seems like it could only be done during soundcheck or well before the show.  Or maybe it's a relatively easy thing to do quickly; discussing what each output is and connecting it?  Or do you simply connect them all, assuming you have the capacity, to save the engineer the trouble of going over it with you?  Perhaps it's something the house engineer could go over with you, instead of the headliner's engineer, or are the arrangements too specific to the headliner band that you'd need to go over it with him?

I guess the main thrust of my topic, is the practicality of setting this up.  I know the band would have to be cool with this and there's problem #1, but beyond that, do most soundboards accommodate such a task?  And is at as easy as plugging in your set of cables like I've described it?

Any thoughts or full out explanations on this process are wholly welcome and appreciated.  I haven't been able to find too much specific information on this, but I'm sure my lack of understanding of the basics has hindered that search.
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Offline Steve J

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Re: Rules and eitiquette of multi-track recording off soundboard
« Reply #1 on: November 11, 2008, 12:58:25 AM »
First thing: the FOH engineer has to be cool with this. The band may be putting out the music; but most times the board & the sound system belong to the production company or the venue. And many times, they will charge the band a fee for setting up for multitrack recording. You'll want to find that out before hand. Always remember: their first priority is to putting on the show.

Second thing: get their early. If you need to plug into the board...multitrack or just a simple L/R out...you will need the help of the aforementioned FOH engineer.  It's his/her baby and they will most likely want to make the connection(s) for you. As a number of the people on this board can attest, if you touch that board without their permission, you will, at least, piss off the FOH engineer. At worst, you'll could be facing physical assault or ejection...or both. Get there late, and you'll find that the crew is at dinner and they won't have time to help you between doors-open and the start of the show.

As for the capabilities of the boards: it varies. Again, there are others here on the board who can speak to the specific capabilities of each board than better I can. The only times I've done multitrack from the board, the engineer did an 8-channel submix and I used a TRS snake to feed my Traveler...and I had tons of help from some very friendly FOH engineers and a very patient tour manager.

« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 01:00:17 AM by Steve J »
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Offline rokpunk

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Re: Rules and eitiquette of multi-track recording off soundboard
« Reply #2 on: November 11, 2008, 07:02:15 AM »
typically a multitrack recording is done by taking a direct out of each individual input channel. usually this is done using a 1/4" cable coming out of the 1/4" jacks labeled "direct out" . i have never seen a console with xlr channel outs. if you were looking at xlr outputs on the back of the console, i'm assuming that you were looking at subgroup/aux/main outs (if xlr m's), or channel inputs (if xlr f's).

in order to get the best recording possible, you are going to want a pre EQ/pre-fader send, meaning that when the engineer moves a fader or turns an eq pot, it won't effect your recording. all of your eq/fader moves can (and should) be done in post.

i'm assuming that you are using a 24 track multitrack recorder, but if you are more limited to multitrack inputs than 24, you could discuss the possibility of using the subgroup outs with the engineer d'jour...assuming those outputs are not being used (usually they aren't). a typical subgroup multitrack list using 8 inputs to the multitrack would go something like:

1. kick
2. snare, hat, toms, overheads
3. bass
4. guitars
5. keys
6. vox 1
7. vox 2
8. vox 3

basically this way you are creating a sub-mix before you send a signal to the recorder. obviously the more individual channels you record in the first place, the more you have to work with in your mixdown. good luck, and have fun.
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Offline TNJazz

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Re: Rules and eitiquette of multi-track recording off soundboard
« Reply #3 on: November 11, 2008, 07:56:41 AM »
Rokpunk accurately describes the process above, but I did want to add that most professional location recordists will not take direct outputs from the console but use a mic splitter to route individual mic signals on stage to their own preamps and recorder(s).

Either method is labor intensive for both the recordist and the FOH guy though.  I typically have a 2pm or 3pm call for a 9pm or 10pm show.  You have to figure out logistics, get input lists, split the signals, test all the lines, etc. and all that needs to be done prior to the band's soundcheck (5-6pm usually) so that you don't impact the live show in any way.
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Offline bluegrass_brad

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Re: Rules and eitiquette of multi-track recording off soundboard
« Reply #4 on: November 11, 2008, 08:07:22 AM »
typically a multitrack recording is done by taking a direct out of each individual input channel. usually this is done using a 1/4" cable coming out of the 1/4" jacks labeled "direct out" . i have never seen a console with xlr channel outs. if you were looking at xlr outputs on the back of the console, i'm assuming that you were looking at subgroup/aux/main outs (if xlr m's), or channel inputs (if xlr f's).


The one exception to this I've encountered is the Crest XRM series of boards, which has a split built in so it has xlr outs on each channel.

If the FOH board doesn't have direct outs and you have in in with the venue or the band, ask if the monitor board has directs. It's often a different board. My advice to you is to get a book on the basics of soundboards and educate yourself a bit before trying this out. As a sometimes FOH engineer I can tell you that often I am very busy from soundcheck all the way up to showtime, and unless the person recording is either:
1) Officially with the band. or
2) A friend of mine
I most likely wouldnt be able to make the time to hold their hand through the process. But if you understand things like AUX outs and subgroups than the whole process will be much easier. I would recommend this book for getting the basics down:

http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Live-Sound-Paul-White/dp/1860742718/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1226408380&sr=1-5

It's a small book that you can stick in your bag and have with you that covers the basic's of soundboards, etc. this one is good too

http://www.amazon.com/Basic-Mixers-Music-Technology-White/dp/1860742661/ref=pd_sim_b_1

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Offline rokpunk

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Re: Rules and eitiquette of multi-track recording off soundboard
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2008, 08:30:43 AM »
typically a multitrack recording is done by taking a direct out of each individual input channel. usually this is done using a 1/4" cable coming out of the 1/4" jacks labeled "direct out" . i have never seen a console with xlr channel outs. if you were looking at xlr outputs on the back of the console, i'm assuming that you were looking at subgroup/aux/main outs (if xlr m's), or channel inputs (if xlr f's).


The one exception to this I've encountered is the Crest XRM series of boards, which has a split built in so it has xlr outs on each channel.


true. the xrm is a monitor console with a built in split.
the allen and heath monitor boards have this too, although, IIRC, it's on TRS, not XLR's.

modify: i'm wrong...the allen and heath monitor console has xlr outs on each channel as well, eliminating the need for a splitter snake.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2008, 08:55:28 AM by rokpunk »
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