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Author Topic: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)  (Read 114360 times)

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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #315 on: April 11, 2014, 09:22:02 PM »

Offline earmonger

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #316 on: April 12, 2014, 12:10:00 AM »
Seriously, if you don't want to go through the manual, just turn it on and hit the Menu button. Look through those settings.  It's all fairly obvious.

Pick your Record Mode (24/96? mp3 at 320?), turn off Low Cut Filter.

Within Menu, go to the Detail Menu and turn on the Limiter (I know there are arguments on this but it is not Auto Level Control, it only activates to prevent overload).

Pick your battery (Alkaline/NiMH), turn on the Pre Rec buffer, enable Cross Memory Recording so it will switch smoothly between internal and memory card if you run out. Set the Clock and do what you want with anything else that looks relevant.  You can search for info any of the other settings here or in the manual.

Make sure the switches on the back are set to Manual Level and DPC off. The Mic Sensitivity switch only affects the mic jack--use it depending on your situation.

And for the rest of the initiation:

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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #317 on: April 12, 2014, 09:31:00 AM »
Sorry, I wasn't actually looking for a primer (I've read the manual and the FAQ on here, which are both very helpful, thanks), more a "we accept you, one of us!"

I do have one specific question now, though: The awesomeness of the M10's preamp notwithstanding, I'm still better off running CA-14 cards through Line In with a battery box if I have one, yes?

Offline Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #318 on: April 12, 2014, 09:42:08 AM »
Sorry, I wasn't actually looking for a primer (I've read the manual and the FAQ on here, which are both very helpful, thanks), more a "we accept you, one of us!"

I do have one specific question now, though: The awesomeness of the M10's preamp notwithstanding, I'm still better off running CA-14 cards through Line In with a battery box if I have one, yes?

Yes. The Preamp has nothing to do with it though. The preamp will bring the mic level up to a line level.

The Plug In Power (PIP) is what powers your mics. Same as the battery box.

I think the M10 provides about 3V to the mics. Most battery boxes will provide 9V. More power = less likely to overload the mics.

Depending on how loud (or quiet) the show is you may still want to run mic in as the battery box doesn't increase the signal to a line level.

I've never really run any mics without an actual preamp in front of the M10, so I can't comment on how loud it should be before you moved over to Line In.
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Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #319 on: April 12, 2014, 10:35:17 AM »
Thanks, guys, this is all helpful. And I did first try searching on these topics in this thread, but, you know...

I guess my first attempt will be going Line In with battery box, as was my preference with my previous recorders, and see what kind of signal I get in various conditions. (Fortunately the next two shows I'll be recording will provide a nice contrast of loud and quiet.) If it turns out a preamp is called for, that'll be my next purchase.

Offline earmonger

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #320 on: April 12, 2014, 05:25:51 PM »
At most amplified shows I run CA-14-->9V battery box-->Line-in with recording level around 5. For super-blasting shows I've taken the recording level down to 2.

Although the CA-14 are relatively low-sensitivity mics, in order to handle amplified music, I've never needed to preamp them. For something acoustic, straight into mic-in is fine. And for virtually everything amplified, battery box is enough to give you a good line-in signal. 

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #321 on: April 28, 2014, 10:09:22 AM »
Took my brand-new M10 for its first run on Friday. My initial thoughts:

1) It's going to take me a while to get used to the display, after years of a Rockboxed iRiver. I missed Rockbox's logarithmic metering — when I first started recording and the crowd noise didn't even show on the meter, I briefly panicked that I wasn't getting a signal at all — and not having a time counter constantly counting up to show me that the recording is running was unnerving as well, though of course there's the red recording light (and yellow pause light) for that.

2) I'm definitely not going to need a preamp, at least for most shows. I ran exactly as earmonger suggested (CA-14 cards > 9v battery box > Line In with gain set at 5), and the resulting recording is just terrific. This was at a moderately loud show about ten feet from the stage, and levels peaked right around -12 dB.

3) I didn't have any problems with the non-lockable gain knob, which stayed in place nicely, or any of the little switches on the back, despite me taking it out of my pocket about two dozen times to check levels.

In short, I'm very pleased with the M10. Still need to test it in some other settings, but right now it seems every bit as good as folks on here have advertised.

Offline rastasean

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #322 on: April 28, 2014, 02:19:28 PM »
In short, I'm very pleased with the M10. Still need to test it in some other settings, but right now it seems every bit as good as folks on here have advertised.

Sounds like your experience went really good! Don't forget that the flash amber color for the pause button means that it is not recording yet.
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #323 on: April 28, 2014, 03:16:06 PM »
1) It's going to take me a while to get used to the display, after years of a Rockboxed iRiver. I missed Rockbox's logarithmic metering — when I first started recording and the crowd noise didn't even show on the meter, I briefly panicked that I wasn't getting a signal at all — and not having a time counter constantly counting up to show me that the recording is running was unnerving as well, though of course there's the red recording light (and yellow pause light) for that.

Press the "Display" button.  It toggles through three or four options, one of which is elapsed time...

Also, you should consider taping the switches down with little pieces of gaffer's tape.  Low-cost insurance against accidentally moving one.

Offline brad.bartels

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #324 on: April 28, 2014, 05:05:20 PM »
1) It's going to take me a while to get used to the display, after years of a Rockboxed iRiver. I missed Rockbox's logarithmic metering — when I first started recording and the crowd noise didn't even show on the meter, I briefly panicked that I wasn't getting a signal at all — and not having a time counter constantly counting up to show me that the recording is running was unnerving as well, though of course there's the red recording light (and yellow pause light) for that.

Press the "Display" button.  It toggles through three or four options, one of which is elapsed time...

Also, you should consider taping the switches down with little pieces of gaffer's tape.  Low-cost insurance against accidentally moving one.


Exactly the 2 points I was just going to make. I know the M10 has the time display option, I think mine is set to count down from the total time it calculates you have left recording at the current settings to the current memory. Definitely helpful if you are getting close to running out of memory (which I never really am with a 32 Gb card). But you can definitely see that the time is either incrementing or decrementing based on your display selection. There is also a "REC" indicator on the display, pretty sure it the upper left corner. It will show the symbol for paused "II' (close as I can come on a keyboard) if you are not. And the red REC LED light should be the only light you see below the display if you are recording (if you see the amber pause light lit, you guessed it, you are paused).

And if you are putting it in your pockets, a bag, etc., etc. (not open recording), I would highly recommend putting tape over those switches as suggested, I used gaffers tape as well. Mine's been that way since day 1, I don't even remember what the switches do, but you rarely, if ever, will want to use them if you are recording line-in with external mics.

Other helpful things you can do, especially if you are using it not so openly is to turn the display backlight and the LED's on and off via the menus. You can set the backlight to come on for a few different settings, anywhere from always on to always off or settings like 15 sec, 30 sec, 60 sec. I usually don't even bother to do that, there are so many people with their phones and other electronic devices, there is almost no way security would be able to single you out. An exception would be shows where they prohibit electronic devices and / or militant about no phones, pictures, recording, etc.  In those cases, it can be helpful not to draw attention to yourself.

Other than that, congratulations on your maiden voyage, sounds like it went well. I know a few people have had a bad experience with the recording level knob moving, but I've used my M10 for probably well over 100 shows, including shoving it in pockets, bags, under seats, you name it and I don't think I've ever had it move on me on it's own. Especially if you're cognizant of it and put your hand over it when pull it in / out of your pockets, etc.

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #325 on: April 28, 2014, 06:54:52 PM »

Press the "Display" button.  It toggles through three or four options, one of which is elapsed time...


Aha, thanks! It does make sense that the "Display" button would adjust what info is displayed, doesn't it? (Though I discovered that the "Format" menu item decidedly does not select the format I'm recording to...)

Offline willndmb

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #326 on: April 28, 2014, 11:03:49 PM »
At most amplified shows I run CA-14-->9V battery box-->Line-in with recording level around 5. For super-blasting shows I've taken the recording level down to 2.

Although the CA-14 are relatively low-sensitivity mics, in order to handle amplified music, I've never needed to preamp them. For something acoustic, straight into mic-in is fine. And for virtually everything amplified, battery box is enough to give you a good line-in signal.
fyi 4 is "unity" going up to 5 adds approx 2.5 db, going down to 2 would drop the signal approx 5db
So for anyone reding who might not have a pre, you can still gauge what you need to do with the wheel based on the meter reading on he m10
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

Offline yates7592

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #327 on: April 29, 2014, 03:30:26 AM »
At most amplified shows I run CA-14-->9V battery box-->Line-in with recording level around 5. For super-blasting shows I've taken the recording level down to 2.

Although the CA-14 are relatively low-sensitivity mics, in order to handle amplified music, I've never needed to preamp them. For something acoustic, straight into mic-in is fine. And for virtually everything amplified, battery box is enough to give you a good line-in signal.
fyi 4 is "unity" going up to 5 adds approx 2.5 db, going down to 2 would drop the signal approx 5db
So for anyone reding who might not have a pre, you can still gauge what you need to do with the wheel based on the meter reading on he m10

I think going from 4 to 2 would drop the gain by way more than 5dB. It's getting non-linear down at that range in my experience.

Offline gmm6797

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #328 on: April 29, 2014, 01:11:05 PM »
fyi 4 is "unity"
Where does this research come from?  When the M10 came out, several tests indicated no unity setting was needed

Offline willndmb

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Re: Sony PCM-M10 (Part 7)
« Reply #329 on: April 30, 2014, 10:03:24 PM »
My own tests
I ran white noise line out > line in (m10) at multi devices/levels and they all came up as 4
I also ran the white noise into a svu to see if the reading were correct/the same
Going up and down each number changed approx 2.5db each (I didn't record that number exactly because I didn't care much)

I also loaded a white noise mp3 file onto the sd card to see if playback matched, it did
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 10:10:23 PM by willndmb »
Mics - AKG ck61/ck63 (c480b & Naiant actives), SP-BMC-2
XLR Cables - Silver Path w/Darktrain stubbies
Interconnect Cables - Dogstar (XLR), Darktrain (RCA > 1/8) (1/8 > 1/8), and Kind Kables (1/8f > 1/4)
Preamps - Naiant Littlebox & Tinybox
Recorders - PCM-M10 & DR-60D

 

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