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Gear / Technical Help => Ask The Tapers => Topic started by: rvman on December 29, 2004, 10:18:03 PM
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I have a band that is allowing me to tape the sbd feed of the show, but I hate dry SBD feeds & want to do a really good job. I assume I would need to set up stereo mics to catpure the crowd as well & mix that in, or would I have to record SBD & crowd/hall separately - is the crowd mix part essential? -
What is the easiest/best way to capture this?
thx
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Options
1 - Run a stage rig, THRU THE SNAKE. Setup your mic's onstage, and get them to patch them into the snake running back to the FOH mix, then blend them with the full mix-out of the SBD - this would require an outboard mixer.
2 - If the FOH is not to far from the stage, run a pair of mic's at the mix position, blended with the feed from the sbd - this also would require an outboard mixer.
3 - Run 2 separate rigs - one for the mic's, one for the sbd - and blend/mix them in post using one of the many audio programs available for this purpose. Drawbacks: having to have/run 2 seperate rigs and synch the 2 recordings (especially if they are 2 different A/D's, as 2 different clocks will mean having to make sure everything is still in synch every so often).
4 - Beg, borrow or steal a SD744T and do either (1) or (2) above...
Rick
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Thx alot - very helpful a- a couple ?s:
Would the mics onstage in (1) be to account for the delay?
Would they capture crowd noise/hall sound best if positioned on the stage, per your idea?
Dumb question - what is A/D?
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Any other thoughts for simple but effective, guys? thx
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An A/D converter is an analog > digital conversion such as the UA-5
If you have a UA-5 you can run your mics and run rca to rca in from the board, just make sure
your level from the board is not too high.
just an option
I've heard the samson mix pad can do the same and is fairly cheap on ebay.
what rig are you running?
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Delay would be fairly insignificant onstage, and probably the optimal taping location solution, but depends heavily on the type of band/music and their setup too.
You don't want crowd noise. You want a good mix of the board and mic mix. Sure, crowd noise will come with the mic's but you don't want mics just to record the crowd.
A/D = Analog > Digital convertor.
What are you recording with? That is prolly the first thing that should be asked.
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An A/D converter is an analog > digital conversion such as the UA-5
If you have a UA-5 you can run your mics and run rca to rca in from the board, just make sure
your level from the board is not too high.
just an option
I've heard the samson mix pad can do the same and is fairly cheap on ebay.
what rig are you running?
Haven't got the rig yet - what I had was too low tech. I will check, but any ideas of cost on the UA-5?
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You don't want crowd noise. You want a good mix of the board and mic mix. Sure, crowd noise will come with the mic's but you don't want mics just to record the crowd.
Why don't you want crowd noise, at least a bit to add ambiance/feel of the room? - I really dislike the dry SBD mixes - I like shows that sound more like they typically do in an FM broadcast where you hear the hall and the audience to get a real live feel.
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A microphone rig WILL give ambience and also give you the 'crowd noise' you seek. You can then mix the board and mic source in post production...or as mentioned earlier run an 'on-the-fly' matrix with the UA-5.
Again, heavily dependant on your gear. What media are you wanting to record to? Mini-Disc? DAT? Laptop? Solid-state recorder?
I assume you have no gear at all? If not, then look to spend about $500 bare minimum.
FYI...you will need 2 recorders, unless you do the UA-5 option. One for the mics (also need pre-amp, cables, etc) and one for the board.
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The cost differs for the UA-5 you have to have a digi mod UA-5 to run this application in the field ,you can get a stock UA-5 and do it yourself or buy one from oade.com and it is a little more $$$
I bought mine stock for under $250 and did the mod myself and it works fine.
The modification is needed to run the rca inputs without being connected to a laptop.
Check the yard sale usually a digimod UA-5 pops up for not too much cash, however if that is too pricey for now check out the samson mixpad, I have not used it but heard it works good in this case.
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If you are going to be doing this alot, or exclusively, I would recommend picking up omnidirectional (binaural) mics. Rather that unidirectional (cardiod pattern), omnis pick up sound from nearly all over whereas cardiods are much more direct in their pick up of sound. If you put them on the stage, they will still pick up a fair bit of crowd noise. Will give a great environmental feel.
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Here is a matrix i did with mics and sbd...and the UA5 mentioned...you can pick these up on ebay for under 200$ quite easily!
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=11345
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You guys are a great help - I really appreciate it.
I assumed I would have to do some sort of post, even if minimal.
There are companies that make a business out of recording live on site, but reading their info, it seems like their option is almost overload & would vertianly be very pricey!...
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If you are going to be doing this alot, or exclusively, I would recommend picking up omnidirectional (binaural) mics. Rather that unidirectional (cardiod pattern), omnis pick up sound from nearly all over whereas cardiods are much more direct in their pick up of sound. If you put them on the stage, they will still pick up a fair bit of crowd noise. Will give a great environmental feel.
Nitpick: omnidirectional and bianaural are unrealted concepts...one is mic pickup pattern...the other, a recording technique...
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The modification is needed to run the rca inputs without being connected to a laptop.
Not quite. The digi-mod is needed to output a non-USB digital signal from the UA5 without a laptop connected. Two digital outputs available: optical S/PDIF via a toslink connector, coax S/PDIF via an RCA connector. For more information on the UA5, check out the UA-5 FAQ (http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=14389.0) in the Archival Info forum.
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You guys are a great help - I really appreciate it.
I assumed I would have to do some sort of post, even if minimal.
There are companies that make a business out of recording live on site, but reading their info, it seems like their option is almost overload & would vertianly be very pricey!...
You are being somewhat vague here though.
Are recording for YOURSELF, or the BAND? You still have not stated WHAT you're using as a recorder (DAT, MD, HDR, Cassette). Is this a one-shot deal, or are you seeking to become a "hobbyist"? (actually, this is more an OBSESSION than a hobby with most of us - but I digress)
If you were to answer these questions, perhaps we could all better advise you which way to go
I'm going out to roll a show tonight, and I'll do a stage rig with my 170>V3>JB3 RIG, and leave my DAT up on the SBD for the board feed, then do a mix later on - mainly because I'm not carrying my fat-ass up/down a 12' ladder to the FOH mix position to blend it live (fear of heights or fear of FALLING?). I'm doing a stage rig because I can't fly mic's in the room at this place, and logistically I'm not going to record from the BACK of the room (too MUCH crowd, especially on NYE). Or I may just bag the board feed, and run the stage rig only (if I don't feel like hauling ALL the extra gear/cables/batteries for the second rig).
Rick
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OK - well maybe here's some more concrete info.
I personally have a MD and coresound mics, which I use to tape alot of shows. I get a good recording, but not spectacular.
My friend has a contact to a band that is starting to get bigger, that I like - they said I could tape a SBD feed. Let's assume the sound guy is very helpful & friendly & the band has said make sure this guy gets a good copy of the show - if the sound guy were to help, is there an easy way he & I could interface so that I get the best quality mix from the bd? I am sorry that I don't know what board/equipment they will be using.
In theory, could I piggyback off the sound guy's expertise/gear a little - again, assuming he wants to help me...
thx guys!
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My friend has a contact to a band that is starting to get bigger, that I like - they said I could tape a SBD feed. Let's assume the sound guy is very helpful & friendly & the band has said make sure this guy gets a good copy of the show - if the sound guy were to help, is there an easy way he & I could interface so that I get the best quality mix from the bd? I am sorry that I don't know what board/equipment they will be using.
In theory, could I piggyback off the sound guy's expertise/gear a little - again, assuming he wants to help me...
Yes, the soundguy could do a submix for you with a mix made for recording (this makes sense mostly in smaller venues). You could ask him to run ambience mics through his mixer and just turn the levels up for your submix. Problems? Well, you'll need to listen to the mix with a pair of headphones to make sure it sounds good which is not the easiest thing in the world if it's a loud show...
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Exactly the kind of direction I wanted -
Cheers to all for you help...!
Any recommendations on mics for the ambience if in some situation I had to bring them?
thx again
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Along the lines of my other post: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/category/110/mics
Anything there should be pretty decent. Just figure out what price you are willing to pay.
There is one really good binaural mic too. Its on the tip on my tongue...