Topic: best portable digital recorder to record trumpet

[fintonissimo]

Hello all, I just waded through 26 pages of posts about the Sony PCM-M10 which I am considering buying.

I am not an audiofile, and I don't have a lot of knowledge about recording, but I do understand a little bit.

I am interested in the PCM-M10 because it does most of what I would want it for very well. Especially, I'm impressed by its ability to record and playback easily with its own internal speaker, and that with the pitch control, I can slow down what I playback to analyze as a music teacher, or also for my own practice sessions. However, I'm concerned that it won't give me quite the quality I would want for recording demos (trumpet alone), solo recitals, or concerts of orchestral or chamber music.

If I plugged an external mic into the M-10, could I achieve what I want (higher quality comparable say with the more expensive D-50 using its internal mics )? Which external mic would work well for recording trumpet, which is a source of loud sound with very intense highs? Would it make sense to buy the Sony M-10 and then a higher priced unit in addition to that for more quality, or could I get the higher quality using the M-10 with a nice external mic?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Chuck

[stevetoney]

While I can't comment specifically on the sound improvement you might see (if any) between the internal mics on a D10 versus a D50, I can say without too much reservation that if you purchased the D10 and then invested the incremental amount you'd have spent on the D50 on external mics, your sound quality would, in all likelihood, improve significantly more than if you were to buy the higher priced recorder.  (The price difference of the higher price recorder probably is not due to improved mic quality.)

The standard starting point for price versus quality that is recommended here is the Church Audio CA-14 with the ST-9100 preamp...which would new be around $300, but I've recently seen sell used here for $200.  Links and details are provided in the taperssection retail subforum. 

You'd probably want the preamp since, as you state, your sound pressure levels with the trumpet will get quite high and the preamp will help sustain these levels without any sound distortion.

This mic/preamp combo have outstanding sound quality which, for the money, can't be beat.  Search on www.archive.org for the term 'ca-14' and you'll find samples if you'd like to check out what they sound like.

[fintonissimo]

To clarify, it sounds to me like you are saying yes, that I could purchase a decent mic setup with a pre amp to use with the Sony PCM-M10; and that it would provide me with sound quality equal to or better than the Sony PCM-D50 with just the internal mics. As long as it isn't too much more money, I might consider that.

I currently own and use the AT822 DAT mic with my Sony TCD-D8 DAT. Could I use the single AT822 mic with the M10, or would I get much better results with the the mic setup you have suggested?

Being a newb, maybe I've posted in the wrong forum. Maybe this should really be in the Mic setup forum...I may repost my question there.

Are there any trumpet players out there or people who record  brass who can tell me specifically what works the best for my situation; recording trumpet alone or in a recital situation? I posted the same question to an internet trumpet group. The consensus there was that it would make more sense to buy the D50 rather than to try to make the M10 sound better with external mics.

Any thoughts? I'm not opposed to spending money, but I do want to spend it wisely!

[stevetoney]

My previous answer was simply based on what the general concensus is here on ts.com is.  I mean, if you're asking, will I get a better sound with external mics...the answer is 'without a doubt!'  However, it's all a matter of what you would want to spend, because out board mics can of course get very expensive. 

It's fairly common advice here that the sound that someone considers acceptable to their ears is a subjective thing, so it's probably best for you to decide on your own.  I've provided a couple of samples as a starting point below...

Here's a sample of a live recording that was made with the D50 internal mics...

http://www.archive.org/details/ssun2009-03-26.aud.pcm-d50.flac16

...and here's a sample with Church Audio CA-14 cardioids...

http://www.archive.org/details/macpodz2009-07-24

I chose the second sample because it has horns, but I recorded that show from the back of the room.

Here's a sample I recorded with CA-14 omni's from dead center in front of the band...

http://www.archive.org/details/toubab2009-08-14.ca14o

Hope this helps a little.

[fintonissimo]

Thanks for your reply and for posting the sound samples. It is hard for me to make a comparison to the recordings because it isn't the same music for each of the 3 samples. However, I could tell some general differences even though I'm only listening back on my cheapo computer speakers. I was impressed with the sound of the 1st sample, using just the internal mics. The timbre seemed brighter to me, which I liked.

It is too bad I can't hear some samples of trumpet alone recorded. Ultimately I'd like to hear the same music/licks, recorded in the same room, with different mic setups. That way I will have isolated the only difference as being in the mic setups. I've been frequenting the Wingfield Audio website and listening to the samples there...however, again, there are no samples of trumpet. Hearing that would really give me a solid idea to go off of.

I don't know any audio stores around here anymore that I could test out the equipment before buying it, so I've been scouring the internet for opinions. In a very general sense, I'm pretty sure I won't be disappointed with the D50 if I buy one; but because I was attracted to the internal playback abilities of the M10 as well as some other features not present on the D50, I was trying to find a way to justify buying the M10 instead. The only way I can justify it is if I feel that I can somehow get quality equal to the D50 in sound. However, maybe it isn't worth the trouble. I can still listen back using headphones with the D50, and it has the pitch control feature just like the M10. If I bought both units, that would solve the problem...maybe that's what I should do!

 

[guysonic]

M10 deck has excellent low noise and is VERY overload resistant with up to +2 dBu input ability in LOW mic input setting.  That's more than some decks will accept without overload going LINE in!!!

So NO need for external preamplifier, AND reports on TS recording VERY loud rock using internal mics with excellent sound (for internal deck mics).

So suggest just buying the M10 and trying deck's mic on horns.  If wanting top quality, then I have DSM-6S/L mics for highest possible stereo-surround audio quality, and M10 powers these mics perfectly without needing a battery module like is needed for all other external condenser type mics including those suggested from Church.

See: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=83254.0;all

[fmaderjr]

Here's a used pair of guysonic's mics if you are interested. They sound like they are in good shape, but guy can recondition them for a reasonable price (I'm guessing around $100 or so) if it makes you feel better or if you later find it necessary. As guy said you wouldn't need to use the battery box  with the M10 or D50.
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=129981.0

The M10's internal mics sound excellent and I think you would make just as good recordings with an M10 as with a D50, but don't buy it for the internal speaker. No recorder with a built in speaker has a decent one-I don't think it's possible. It is low volume and not good quality. You will really need to use a good pair of head phones to tell what your recording sounds like. The headphone amplifier is excellent.

I would take tonedeaf's advice and get the M10 and put the money you save over the D50 into the mics you select. It would make no sense to buy both recorders thinking your D50 recording will sound audibly better. It could make sense, though, to buy an external preamp like the Church Audio ST-9100 in addition to the M10 and an external mic. Many external mics will require a battery box if you don't get the preamp, although I believe illconditioned has listed a number of mics he has used successfully mic in with no battery box.

[ilduclo]

I am getting excellent results with the d50 using the on board mics for some very quiet and extremely loud recordings.  I would recommend this for your use, very simple interface and easy to use.

[fintonissimo]

Thanks everybody for the info and suggestions. In regards to the M10, I think the internal speaker would be a very nice useful perk, even though I know that the sound quality wouldn't be great. However, as a private lesson teacher, I could whip it out quickly, record a student, and play it back so both of us could hear it; and I could make comments. I could also slow it down with pitch control to further show a student where the problems are, like using a magnifying glass. Sound quality wouldn't be great, but it wouldn't lie about pitch and rhythm, and the student would hear right away what I'm reacting to. That's why I am very interested in the M10 as opposed to the D50, plus some of the other added features. Although the D50 has the pitch control, I'd have to plug in dual headphones to have the student hear it back together with me at the same time. I guess that's not so bad, but it is one extra step. I'm attracted to the convenience factor of the M10 in that regard.

I emailed somebody on the trumpet group that I posted to that has the D50 and loves it. He doesn't use any external mic and got great results. I listened to his clips online and was very impressed. Being a musician and not as advanced as many of you are in the field of recording, I very much like the simplicity factor of not having to attach any mics and having a minimal amount of setting up to record.

So, I don't know for sure where that leads me. One thing I can appreciate is the fact that even though it is convenient to use the built in mics, it is then inconvenient to monitor the sound levels if it is mounted high up on a mic stand. I guess for that reason alone as well as others I could be talked into going more the external mic route. I am still digesting the info from the posts, but guysonic's mics are very intriguing to me. Forgive my ignorance, but can these mics be mounted on a standard mic stand?

Thanks again, Chuck   

[acidjack]

Thanks everybody for the info and suggestions. In regards to the M10, I think the internal speaker would be a very nice useful perk, even though I know that the sound quality wouldn't be great. However, as a private lesson teacher, I could whip it out quickly, record a student, and play it back so both of us could hear it; and I could make comments. I could also slow it down with pitch control to further show a student where the problems are, like using a magnifying glass. Sound quality wouldn't be great, but it wouldn't lie about pitch and rhythm, and the student would hear right away what I'm reacting to. That's why I am very interested in the M10 as opposed to the D50, plus some of the other added features. Although the D50 has the pitch control, I'd have to plug in dual headphones to have the student hear it back together with me at the same time. I guess that's not so bad, but it is one extra step. I'm attracted to the convenience factor of the M10 in that regard.

I emailed somebody on the trumpet group that I posted to that has the D50 and loves it. He doesn't use any external mic and got great results. I listened to his clips online and was very impressed. Being a musician and not as advanced as many of you are in the field of recording, I very much like the simplicity factor of not having to attach any mics and having a minimal amount of setting up to record.

So, I don't know for sure where that leads me. One thing I can appreciate is the fact that even though it is convenient to use the built in mics, it is then inconvenient to monitor the sound levels if it is mounted high up on a mic stand. I guess for that reason alone as well as others I could be talked into going more the external mic route. I am still digesting the info from the posts, but guysonic's mics are very intriguing to me. Forgive my ignorance, but can these mics be mounted on a standard mic stand?

Thanks again, Chuck

Yes, any of the external mics mentioned can be mounted on a stand, though it's not strictly necessary since they are so small - you could put them on the edges of a music stand, for instance.  However, there are simple mounts available that will work with a normal stand.  They cost about $50 all-in. 

Sounds to me like you should get an M10 and see how you like it.  If you want better sound, then upgrade to better external mics.  I tend to agree with others that if you really want high quality, you should get external mics, and the likely difference between the D50 and M10, especially when cost is factored in, is probably negligible on the internals.

[fintonissimo]

guysonic's mics are very intriguing to me. Forgive my ignorance, but can these mics be mounted on a standard mic stand?

Yes, any of the external mics mentioned can be mounted on a stand, though it's not strictly necessary since they are so small - you could put them on the edges of a music stand, for instance.  However, there are simple mounts available that will work with a normal stand.  They cost about $50 all-in. 

[/quote]

Just making sure you understood I was wondering about whether or not the DSM-6S/L were mountable on a standard mic stand, since it appears they are designed to be worn on the head...

[Will_S]

Since no one else seems to have picked up on the fact that you already own an AT822:

Yes, it will work fine with a PCM M-10 (or D50).  And as you know it is quite easy to stand-mount it in the right position.  The other mics mentioned offer more flexibility in terms of setting up for different stereo imaging, but for recording a single trumpet that's not of any obvious advantage and they'll prove a little bit harder (though by no means impossible) to mount to a standard mic stand.

For recording amplified music from a distance, the other mics mentioned in this thread have definite advantages, but for what you want to do, I think the AT822 should work just fine, and you already have it.

Edit:  And as to mounting the DSM mics to a standard mic stand:  Sure, you can tape them to a stand, or jerry-rig some sort of mount.  But they aren't designed to mate cleanly with a stock stand.  To get them to work as designed, you need to have some sort of baffle between them (e.g. a real head, or an artificial substitute - doing this exactly right is not cheap but you can get acceptable results with a variety of baffles, or by spacing the mics by a foot or more).

[fmaderjr]

as to mounting the DSM mics to a standard mic stand:   To get them to work as designed, you need to have some sort of baffle between them (e.g. a real head, or an artificial substitute - doing this exactly right is not cheap but you can get acceptable results with a variety of baffles, or by spacing the mics by a foot or more).

I wouldn't dream of paying a lot of money for a dummy head. I think guysonic's is somthing like $250.

Do you think a large plastic coffee can filled with the right material inside would work fairy well? Or would the reflective surface of the can screw things up? I've thought of trying this for some time, but I guess it would be necessary to glue something like fake fur on the outside of the can to have a chance for it to work decently.

[acidjack]

guysonic's mics are very intriguing to me. Forgive my ignorance, but can these mics be mounted on a standard mic stand?

Yes, any of the external mics mentioned can be mounted on a stand, though it's not strictly necessary since they are so small - you could put them on the edges of a music stand, for instance.  However, there are simple mounts available that will work with a normal stand.  They cost about $50 all-in. 

Just making sure you understood I was wondering about whether or not the DSM-6S/L were mountable on a standard mic stand, since it appears they are designed to be worn on the head...
[/quote]

There are a variety of ways to mount these types of mics... the key would be the object you put on top of the mic stand.  The SS mics are shaped in such a way that they would either need to be on glasses or on something they could be looped or taped to.  There are pictures on here of people using that type of mic on a Mr. Potato Head, a nerf ball, etc.  Easiest, as Will_S alludes to, is probably to get a large nerf ball or other type of baffle and stick it on top of the mic stand, or place it somewhere that it would pick up sound properly.  I do not think you need a dummy head. 

[fintonissimo]

[quote For recording amplified music from a distance, the other mics mentioned in this thread have definite advantages, but for what you want to do, I think the AT822 should work just fine, and you already have it.
[/quote]

That's what I have thought/wondered all along! However, I asked Wingfield Audio the same question, and they said my results with the internal mics of either Sony would be BETTER than with the AT822 DAT mic. I do recognize that it's a matter of taste and opinion. However, I've received 2 other opinions from different forums which basically said that the AT822 was a viable option.

I want to keep things as simple as possible, and also not spend money unless it is necessary. If I know for sure that spending money on external mics is going to make a big difference, I'm willing to do it; however, only up to a point. After all, I spent about $800 for my Sony DAT and another couple hundred for that mic in 1998. I'm not willing to spend $1000 on a new mic system, but I might consider up to half of that. I'm probably not going to spend money on Sony's furry windscreen, either if I can find something cheaper that basically does the same thing!

In regards to the DSM mic option, isn't part of the design of the mic meant to work in conjunction with the conductive nature of a real human head, flesh and bone as well as space? Therefore, it seems to me you would be defeating the purpose of the design if you use the mics in a different way...but I don't know enough about this to really say. That's why I'm asking.

[Will_S]

I haven't heard the internal mics on the M10, but I'd be quite surprised if they outperformed the AT822.  The D50's might or might at least be comparable, but in practice the greater placement flexibility with the AT822 or other external mics will likely still give you better sound.  But certainly I'd suggest trying whatever recorder you get with and without the AT822 before deciding you need to buy anything more, and don't blindly assume the AT822 will outperform the built in mics.

Regarding the DSM mics...or any omnidirectional mics for that matter...there are multiple ways to introduce differences in timing and amplitude (and perhaps frequency response) of signals in the left vs right channels.  The HRTF method, where the mics are placed near the temples of a real or surrogate head, is one very effective way of getting these things "just right".  Sticking the mics on a Nerf ball will not have quite the same effect, but it will introduce some differences between channels that may still result in a pleasing stereo effect.  Same goes for spacing the mics by a foot or perhaps more.  As an option that's cheaper/easier to construct than an artificial head, but probably more effective than a Nerf ball, you might want to google Jecklin disk.

[goodcooker]

I didn't read every line of this thread but I'll put in my 2 cents worth...
If I wanted to record trumpet for myself and for students I would buy a microphone that suits that purpose. When I see brass recorded or live I have seen a variety of dynamic microphones used not the type of phantom powered condensers that people on this forum most often use and recommend. What type or brand is best is open for speculation but if you want bang for your buck a Shure sm57 is around $100 new and will work just fine. If you want some real quality get a Beyerdynamic M160 ribbon mic. It costs 5 times the price of the sm57 but it kicks ass on horns. You could find a used one for a lot less.

So how do you run it into your recorder? Get an inexpensive little mixer (I have a Yamaha that I paid $50 bucks for) to control the gain and route the signal to your recorder. A line out from the recorder into the mixer will also give you the extra headphone output you need for your student (and separate gain control for those phones). This would also allow you to change/monitor the gain on the recorder without having to stand over your student and have him blasting a trumpet in your face while you try to set levels.

I'm not a fan of internal mics on mini recorders at all. I use a Marantz PMD620 as my main recorder but only line in. It might do exactly what you want it to do and you should certainly try it before spending any more money....but if I was paying for lessons ( I don't know if you teach at a school or for hire ) I would expect more than a mini recorder stuck on a mic stand with the teacher looming over me while setting levels.

Don't get all caught up in creating stereo imaging with this project....for recording solo trumpet that is the exact opposite of what you need. One trumpet = one mic.

I say get the M10 and try the internals. If the sound, features and form factor are what you need you're set. If not try your AT822. Still not happy get a little mixer, a few cables and a decent dynamic mic.

If that doesn't do it for you.....sell everything you own and get some DPA 4011s, a Grace preamp and a Sound Devices recorder. Then you'll be happy!

[fintonissimo]

If that doesn't do it for you.....sell everything you own and get some DPA 4011s, a Grace preamp and a Sound Devices recorder. Then you'll be happy!
[/quote]

Yeah, and then I will start becoming like you guys!

You make a lot of excellent points and have given me some good ideas, as well as validate some of what I thought already. Thank you.

To be clear, though, I'm not interested in sound quality recording for my students. I want to have sound quality to record demos of myself, to also perhaps put clips on a future webpage, or maybe even use to make a cd of trumpet and piano, or brass quintet. The M10 could be a really nice teaching tool, though, because while a kid is playing I could whip it out, record him while still holding it in my hand, and then play it back for him quickly. For those of you who don't realize, quite often with kids I'll tell them something in a lesson and they don't believe me. For instance, things like "you're flat/sharp", "you're rushing here", etc. When I record them and play it back, then they finally figure out why I'm saying what I'm saying. I rarely use a recorder in lessons, but the M10 could be an effective tool to diagnose problems, especially with the ability to slow things down on playback.

I guess in all of these posts I was/am really trying to find somebody (hopefully a like-minded trumpet player) that has been down this road to tell me what they think the best setup will be before I spend a bunch of money trying to figure it out all on my own.

[guysonic]

The 822 mic may not have the loudness handling (only116 dB SPL ability?) or consistant natural sound to fully satisfy a discerning musician wanting studio quality or better results.

The DSM mic can be headworn even by the player of the instrument if what he's hearing is acceptable. 

Standard mic stand or boom mounting does require an HRTF baffle or something with some HRTF acoustic properties.  Nothing like what has been suggested here (nerf, coffee can, Jecklin disc, etc) work in an acceptable manner, without introducing serious and unpredictable artifacts/coloration.

While I do have a real HRTF mic-stand-threaded LiteGUY baffle for mounting any of the normally headworn DSM models, a very cheap baffle with no artifacts and acceptable imaging/natural sound is easily constructed using an all cotton twine-bound bath towel approximating human head height/dia. dimensions. 

The tightly bound towel is itself made by winding around a ~1.5" dia. 12" length wooden dowel with a standard 5/8" fine mic-stand-threaded flange bolted one end.

This Atlas-made 3-hole female threaded flange is available from Full Compass via phone/mailorder for a few bucks.

The LiteGUY HRTF baffle is pictured at: www.sonicstudios.com/liteguy.htm

[fintonissimo]

I'm very fascinated with your mics and the thinking behind it, approaching the recording of sound from the same perspective as the way people naturally hear it! I haven't completely made up my mind, but I think I want to give your mics a try; once I get either the Sony M10 or D50. Earlier you recommended the DSM-6S/L for high quality. With this mic, would it matter whether or not I'm close or far away? In other words, are there any limitations to how I would use it? My instinct generally would be to record at least 8 feet away from the bell of the trumpet, and raised up about 8 ft. so that I'm not blowing directly into it. What about recording a brass quintet in a recital hall? Maybe back several rows in the center aisle and raised up higher than the instruments?

You said: "The DSM mic can be headworn even by the player of the instrument if what he's hearing is acceptable."

Ok, but I'm pretty sure that with the trumpet being a directional instrument as it is, this won't be very good. The sound one hears while playing is quite different from what other people are hearing for a variety of reasons. 
 
You also described: "The tightly bound towel is itself made by winding around a ~1.5" dia. 12" length wooden dowel with a standard 5/8" fine mic-stand-threaded flange bolted one end.

This Atlas-made 3-hole female threaded flange is available from Full Compass via phone/mailorder for a few bucks."

After about 20 minutes, I finally found the flange part you are describing...(their search engine didn't recognize the terms you used.) However, I did find the part, and from your description, this looks like something I can do; and a fun project! My only worry is the creation of this mummy head might make me laugh whenever I record myself or others!

Chuck

[guysonic]

“With this mic, would it matter whether or not I'm close or far away?”
If HRTF headworn, or baffle mounted, you can answer this question yourself just be objectively listening to what’s heard at the mic position. 

Being very close < 1 meter, or >10 meter distance is your choice for what sound you want to record.  The DSM-6S/L will handle this task in good way. 

Having the mic inside the WHB/N windscreen allows for both being very close where instrument wind is generated, and for recording outside in any weather conditions (wind/rain) allowing for creative acoustic/ambient experimentation without mic use limitations.

Placing a HRTF dummy-head baffled mic at a distance or height you are not personally hearing makes for an unknown recorded result. 

Even monitoring with headphones is “hearing” an alteration or headphone generated perception, so you are not hearing (exactly, or sometimes not even close to) what the mics are actually recording.

“My only worry is the creation of this mummy head might make me laugh whenever I record myself or others!”
Humor should not detract from your projects, and you can use all-cotton case slipcover of any color or pattern over you towel baffle so to change the appearance for desired effect.

In 1993, I once used the full size GUY HRTF baffle on a 10-foot high tripod stand (GUY looks like a slightly oversized gray alien head) at ‘The Oregon Triode Society’ theatre organ recording session/meeting held at the Pizza Grinder located in Portland. 

Many different conventional mics on stands where being used/compared and played back using massively large monitor speakers for judging mic recorded performance.  And the mics owner verbally described each different mic so members understood what was being used before hearing a sample of the mic’s recording. 

I playfully described my mic as a “dummy head on a stick” mic and got a roar of laughter, but also much appreciation for what was heard when my recording played. 

The recordings made that night have been posted on my web for over 10 years and remain one of the few definitive theatre organ recordings by which all other such recordings, low frequency speaker test recordings, and keyboard performance is compared.

[fintonissimo]

"Placing a HRTF dummy-head baffled mic at a distance or height you are not personally hearing makes for an unknown recorded result."

So, in the case of recording in an auditorium, are you suggesting setting the mic up at a level of somebody sitting in a seat? If I was in my practice studio, (a relatively small room) I don't know where the best sound in the room would be. Maybe it sounds better closer to the ceiling, but I wouldn't know because I'm not that tall. Obviously with a little experimentation I could determine the best placement of the mic. In a general sense, though, it seems like you are saying to place the mic at a height equal to where somebody listening to me play would be, correct? Just like I wouldn't point my bell directly at anybody listening, I should do the same with this mic, I would assume, to get the best result. 
 
"I playfully described my mic as a “dummy head on a stick” mic and got a roar of laughter, but also much appreciation for what was heard when my recording played."

Very cool...doesn't matter how it looks if it delivers! Actually, a sense of humor while recording can be a good thing! 

[guysonic]

"Placing a HRTF dummy-head baffled mic at a distance or height you are not personally hearing makes for an unknown recorded result."

 So, in the case of recording in an auditorium, are you suggesting setting the mic up at a level of somebody sitting in a seat? If I was in my practice studio, (a relatively small room) I don't know where the best sound in the room would be. Maybe it sounds better closer to the ceiling, but I wouldn't know because I'm not that tall. Obviously with a little experimentation I could determine the best placement of the mic. In a general sense, though, it seems like you are saying to place the mic at a height equal to where somebody listening to me play would be, correct? Just like I wouldn't point my bell directly at anybody listening, I should do the same with this mic, I would assume, to get the best result.

When practical, I often place my mic up in the air ~10-12' to reduce audience noises during live performances.

In most cases, and all I’m saying is, UNLESS  you actually listen carefully EXACTLY at the mic position, you may OR may not get what is expected or desired. 

And yes, experimentation with different at instrument/mic location takes, when you have the time/option, is always good practice. 

If in your studio or even if working remote location try to budget time to see what works and what doesn't for a particular instrument placement/mic position fitting the desired musical arrangement/mood.

With remotely locating the baffle in places I can’t be in, I use the most natural, and isolating phones owned if recording while performance is happening. 

While this does NOT let me hear the sound quality being recorded, it does give good idea of the mix of instruments (if more than one playing) to the ambient sound (music to hall sounds mix) at the chosen baffle position.

[fintonissimo]

I'm still making up my mind, but I am at least serious enough about wanting to try the dsm mics that I went to home depot to find a wooden dowel to use to make the head. However, the biggest diameter of wooden dowel I could find was only 1 3/8". It looks like the diameter of the metal flange that would go on there is 1 3/4". So, I found a little round sculptured wooden knob which has a threaded screw, (it's designed to be a top knot), and I cut it in half. I then drilled a hole into the 1 3/8" dowel and threaded the cut piece in, and glued it together with gorilla glue. Now I have enough surface area that I can attach the metal flange without worrying about the screws having enough wood to screw into. So far my project has only cost me a little time and $4.75!

[fintonissimo]

I just finished making my head, with the exception of attaching the flange which still needs to be ordered. It will probably be awhile before I can try him out, because I don't have money right now to spend on the deck or mics. However, when I get my deck and the new mics, I will be all set to put them to the test!