Topic: Another newbie with another question... Balanced vs. Unbalanced

[chinariderstl]

Guys, please pardon the ignorance, I'm new to all this. Hopefully this will be a simple one and hopefully you'll be able to help out.

Ok, so I just bought a Kodak Zi8 for video recording, gonna record a few songs here and there at shows and put them up on youtube or vimeo.  I went with the Zi8 because it has an 1/8" stereo mic input.  Now, since the onboard mic is shit, I'm going to get a relatively cheap external stereo mic and jack in.

Question is, though, should I get the Tascam TM-ST2 with "unbalanced output" or the Tascam TM-STPRO with, apparently, balanced output.

http://www.tascam.com/product/tm-st2/specifications/

http://www.tascam.com/product/tm-stpro/specifications/

I checked Kodak's site and see no mention of a balanced or unbalanced input on the Zi8.  Tascam's site indicates "the TM-ST2 has unbalanced outputs, better suited for recorders such as the DR-1."  As such, I was thinking the Zi8 would be in the same vein.

http://store.kodak.com/store/ekconsus/en_US/pd/Zi8_Pocket_Video_Camera/productID.156585800

Any help, direction, etc would be greatly appreciated.

[fmaderjr]

The ST2 comes with a cable that will plug into your recorder and the other one doesn't.

I don't know anything about video recording, but I can't help feeling another mic might be much better for your application. Do you want to have to hold a mic in one hand and try to operate the camera with the other? I think a set of good small stereo mics with a 1/8 plug that many of us use to feed an audio recorder would be much better for you. You could mount the mics on a hat or clip on your shirt and then would have 2 hands to operate the camera. There are very small, relative inexpensive mics that would sound every bit as good or better than that Tascam, at least when fed into an audio recorder. You'd need to get a recommendation from someone familiar with the camera to be sure they'd work well with it though.

[chinariderstl]

Thanks for the reply.  I was just going to attempt to mount the Zi8 on one side of a mic bar (like below) and the stereo mic on the other side, then mount that on a tripod.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/286149-REG/AKG_KM235_1.html#specifications

That's why I wanted an all-in-solution when it came to microphone.

[notlance]

"I went with the Zi8 because it has an 1/8" stereo mic input."

An 1/8" stereo mic input is always unbalanced so any pair of mics you plug into it will be operating as unbalanced mics.  An 1/8" stereo input has 3 conductors (L, R, and Shield) and for a stereo balanced input you would need at least 4 conductors (2 for L and 2 for R) but everyone uses 5 conductors (2 for L, 2 for R, plus a shield conductor).  To have a balanced system you need a balanced output, (from the mic) a balanced cable, and a balanced input (in this case, a video recorder).  If any one of these are unbalanced, the whole system is unbalanced.  However, if you keep your mic lines short you may be able to keep the noise level low enough, especially considering how noisy most video recorder mic inputs are.

[achalsey]

not sure if this is relevant or I'm just being a smart ass (not sure how you'll be recording) but might be worth checking this out:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=139474.0

[chinariderstl]

notlance, Thanks for the info, really appreciate it. And achalsey, appreciate the input as well.

About the video recording, I totally get it and totally agree, the last thing I want to do is harsh anyone's mellow.  I was only planning on grabbing a select song here and there for a good/decent visual representation of the show, for those not there.  I wanted a halfway decent stereo mic to grab halfway decent audio, as most of the audio and video on youtube is trash.

My primary goal is still to audio record the show, either with a board patch or using a nice pair of stereo mics (I put a downpayment on a set of Studio Project C4's and hope to upgrade to a pair of Busman BSC1's before long), and get it up on the live music archive for the world hear.  The video was just designed to be the proverbial icing on the cake.

[SmokinJoe]

Those Tascam mics look at lot like AT822 and AT825, including the fact that the AT822 has a single unbalanced output and the AT825 has dual balanced outputs.  I believe they have been discontinued by AT, but perhaps Tascam owns the rights?

Does your video camera have an audio signal meter, and can you adjust it? (aka a scale of LEDs showing you when you are overloading the camera's audio section)?  If not, you might spend a little time researching how much signal you need, and what mics are appropriate.  My guess is that if you grab what you think it an appropriate mic and just plug it in with no adjustment, you are going to get either an overloaded distorted signal (probably), or a really weak signal you can't hardly hear (maybe).  I think if it's "just right" you are extremely lucky.

If it's overloaded you can reduce it with a little "earphone volume control" cable, sold at places like Radio Shack and walmart, but the trick is to know how much to reduce it.  You'll only figure that out by trial and error.

See if you can find someone with the same camera you have, that has recorded concerts, and see what they have learned the hard way.

[chinariderstl]

SmokinJoe, thanks for the feedback. Yes, the Zi8 has a built-in signal meter, so the audio levels can be adjusted.

Funny, I was looking at the AT822.  I will likely go with that or the Tascam.  Again, not looking for any stellar audio, just a step up from the on-board mono mic.