Topic: Anyone actively using Tascam DR-2D (especially soundboard)?

[StarkRavingCalm]

I bought a Tascam DR-2D last year and have used it a few times, but still have some mixed feelings on it. My previous unit was a Sony D7.
I bought the DR-2D mainly for the dual recording, so even if I found something better, I would be reluctant to give it up. It's such a great feature.

I tape mainly outdoor shows (lately anyways) which are a challenge by themselves. Was using CS Binaurals but am going to switch to CS Cardoids to get a more directional recording.
Additionally, when available, I want to patch into the soundboard.


What has been everyone's experience with the DR-2D?
What mics have you used?

What have been your SBD experiences? Have used you an attenuation cable?
Has anyone done a  matrix recording with it?


Thanks!

[Will_S]

Yes.  I have made many soundboard/martix recordings with a number of mics.  (FWIW, I would look into other mini-cardioid alternatives to the Core Sound Cardioids, in particular offerings from Church Audio, Sound Professionals, and Microphone Madness.)

I always bring a couple attenuator options with me - I bring a pair of -12dB RCA barrell attenuators for higher quality attenuation if I expect to need it ahead of time.  (Although maybe I don't really need attenuation - in theory the DR2D specs at max input level of +6 dBV = +8.3 du on the line input versus a nominal +4dBu pro line levvel -- but definitely in practice some boards' line outs will clip the line input if the rec level is set to 100 and I'm always leery of attenuating via adjustments that may be in the digital domain; and some peaks may exceed the nominal pro level).  I also bring an inline headphone volume control I can always insert in an emergence if I need to reduce levels on the fly (the one big drawback to the DR2D for board feeds in the dual recording mode is that in dual mode you can not adjust the line input's rec levels on the fly, only the mic in).  In practice I usually either know the board at a particular location and can set levels/insert attenuators as needed ahead of time or I can set levels during the soundcheck, so it's usually no big deal.

Some examples of matrices I made with the DR2D and various mics, and my recollection of attenuation need (or lack thereof):

Warren Hood and the Goods:  SBD + Audix M1290c>Littlebox - Worked with the friendly soundman during sound check to get the right levels for line-in at 100.  As I recall, his default starting position on the output levels put my peaks at ~ -12 dB at line in / 100, no attenuators.
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/whood2010-05-24d2t05.flac

James Nash and Friends SBD + AT822 onstage - Had a variable line out on the soundboard, dialed in levels for line in 100 with no attenuation
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/nash2010-08-28d1t05.flac

Waybacks SBD + Sennheiser MKE40s > 9V Bbox - Ran line in at 100.  The soundman had told me to expect a pro level signal, but during the sound check it was hitting -12 tops so I rolled with no attenuators.  Track 12 was minor clipping in one channel at the crescendos, but thanks to mixing in the AUD signal in post the flat tops get rounded over.  Can you hear the clipping?
http://www.archive.org/details/waybacks2010-11-20.mtx.flac16f

Infamous Stringdusters SBD + MKE40s (no Bbox, plug-in power) set 1 and Audix M1290hc > Littlebox set 2.  This one I had no soundcheck.  Ran line in at 100 for the first song with no attenuators.  Too hot for comfort so I swapped in the headphone volume control before the 3rd song.  Can you hear a difference?
http://www.archive.org/details/isd2011-01-12.mtx.flac16f

Nashvillains SBD + MKE40s > 9V Bbox Board feed was line in 100, peaks were ~ -12 dB
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/nashvillains2011-02-11d1t02.flac

Lane Murchison and James Nash - this was a fun one.  MKE40s > 9V Bbox, plus one channel of line out from the PA mixer for acoustic guitar and vocals plus one channel taking the dynamic mic output from James' guitar amp (electric guitar not routed through the PA).  The mixer was really hot and needed a bit of attenuation with the headphone volume control (although levels were set to 100, the DR2D might have adequately attenuated it), which left the dynamic mic signal from the guitar amp pretty low, but it boosted OK in post.
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/lane+james2011-02-13dtt08.flac

Walter Strauss SBD + Audix M1290c>Littlebox line in at 100, no attenuators, peaks were -12 or lower I believe
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/wstrauss2011-05-01d2t10.flac

Wake the Dead SBD + MKE40s (no Bbox) - line in at 100, no attenuators, peaks ~-9 dB
http://homepage.mac.com/satterwill/wtd2011-06-03d1t08.flac

[nicegrin]

Hi Will (and others).

Curious to know if you can run TWO sets of mics with this device. From Tascams presentation on their webpage I get the idea you can only use internal mics + 1 set of externals.

[Will_S]

You can absolutely run two sets of mics, one into the line in and one into the mic in.  You'd probably want a preamp for the pair being fed into the line in (at the very least they'd need their own power source).  Mic in can generally accept a signal from a preamp, but you might run into a problem if the mics are really hot, the show really loud, and the preamp's minimum gain is too high.  Worst case put some attenuators on the output of the preamp.  Never been a problem for me going Audix M1290 > Littlebox > mic in (low sens, rec levels ~70, I still have to crank the gain up a bit on the Littlebox).

[StarkRavingCalm]

Thanks Will.

Those samples sound really good (have not yet listened to the ones on archive.org).
Definitely boosts my faith in the machine.

So you (mostly) always run line in at 100 with no attenuator? I have a attenuator thats -20 and I always make the dual recording at -12 as a failsafe.
So I guess at least the first time I could run it at 100 with the -20 attenuator and also the dual recording and take it from there.


As an aside to the question from nicegrin, it's a shame you can't use the dual recording from two sources and NOT mix.
Be nice to have one distinct recording from a set of mics and one distinct recording from the SDB in some cases (trying out new mics but are offered a patch, etc..)


BTW: What's the Littlebox?

[bgalizio]

I don't tape much anymore, but have run SBD/AUD matrix recordings several times with this recorder. Works out very well for me. I carry attenuators in case the SBD is too hot and the engineer isn't/can't/won't turn the output down, but haven't had to use them yet. I've always kept the SBD at level 100.

Also, you CAN run 2 separate sources and have them as distinct stereo files. You are not forced to mix them together.

[StarkRavingCalm]

Thanks bgalizio

I just went back and RE-read the section of the manual (don't know how I missed it the first time)

DOH!

Any special considerations or tips when doing so?
They would both use the same input level correct?

[Teen Age Riot]

I don't tape much anymore, but have run SBD/AUD matrix recordings several times with this recorder. Works out very well for me. I carry attenuators in case the SBD is too hot and the engineer isn't/can't/won't turn the output down, but haven't had to use them yet. I've always kept the SBD at level 100.

+1
I'm keeping the line-in at 100 as well. No problems whatsoever.

It's also worth mentioning that the mic-in will accept a reasonably hot signal as well. I've run MBHOs>MP-2 into the mic in at average level rock shows, both from foh and stage lip. No issues so far.

[Will_S]

So I guess at least the first time I could run it at 100 with the -20 attenuator and also the dual recording and take it from there.

If you mean dual mode as in "safe" for the board to line-in with a 20 dB attenuator, 1) I don't think the dual/safe mode is available for line in, only mic in and 2) with a 20 dB attenuator I would be shocked if you could clip the line input even at 100.  If you're paranoid, set the line input to 90 and use the attenuator your first try, but go ahead and use the mic in for mics to matrix with it.

BTW: What's the Littlebox?

Naiant Littlebox microphone preamplifier.  Highly recommended if you want to run phantom powered condensers with the DR2D.  Great performance/price ratio, heck great performance period.  You can get it configured all kinds of different ways, including I believe if you really wanted with one set of outputs at "normal" levels and another slightly attenuated for when you feed the amplified mics into the mic in of the DR2D - again not that overloading the mic in is usually a concern unless you have really sensitive mics and a loud show.  And it's even a great cosmetic match for the color and styling of the DR2D

http://www.naiant.com/naiant/microphoneamplifiers.html

They would both use the same input level correct?

No, the line level has to be set before you start recording if in dual mode, and cannot be adjusted on the fly (mic in can be adjusted on the fly even in dual mode though).  The line in level is only adjustable on the fly if not in dual mode.

[StarkRavingCalm]

So it's possible to set one input level for mic-in and one input level for line-in?

Generally when recording mic-in, I am set at 70-75.

[Will_S]

So it's possible to set one input level for mic-in and one input level for line-in?

Generally when recording mic-in, I am set at 70-75.

Yes.

[jdwtyl]

I used my DR2D Tuesday night at Phish with split omnis (DPA 4061s) and hypers (AKG CK93s) and mixed them pretty good results. Like the others have said you can't adjust your line levels on the fly. I set mine at 90 and made the necessary adjustments on my CA9100 which will give you the ability to adjust levels on the fly. I'll try to get a sample up soon.

[StarkRavingCalm]

So I ran a couple of test last night for recording from two sources with no mix.
Two distinct files, no problem.

Still a little unclear on the input settings:
Line In is set to 100
"regular" input was set to 75

So does setting Line In in dual mode to 100 make it the default for both Line In and Mic In in this mode?

I had expected to see more peaks overall than I did ( I actually didn't see any, but it was not a true "real world" test either) . Is there some leveling or attenuation being done in this mode?

[StarkRavingCalm]

Ran some more tests last night.

Mic-in  in dual-mode (line and mic, no mix) is adjustable on the fly, and is whatever your Input settings are.
It is only LineIn that stays fixed.

This is very good news.

[StarkRavingCalm]

So I used the DR-2D with Soundboard (at 90) and my new Core Sound Cardoids (at 75%).
I then took the two files and merged them in Audacity.
I think the matrixed file sounds great. You get the clarity from the soundboard plus depth and ambiance from the mics.

Would love to hear some feedback\advise on this. (Please keep in mind this was an outdoor show).
I am posting all 3 examples of two different songs.

This band does mostly originals, so it was tricky figuring out which to post as examples.
Sample 1 is acoustic and Sample2 is not so much rock but is definitely a much louder song.


Please... no cracks about the song choices....

http://home.comcast.net/~richgomes/samples/Sample1_acoustic_CSC.flac
http://home.comcast.net/~richgomes/samples/Sample1_acoustic_CSC_SBD_MERGED_AUDACITY.flac
http://home.comcast.net/~richgomes/samples/Sample1_acoustic_SDB.flac

http://home.comcast.net/~richgomes/samples/Sample2_CSC.flac
http://home.comcast.net/~richgomes/samples/Sample2_CSC_SBD_MATRIXED_AUDACITY.flac
http://home.comcast.net/~richgomes/samples/Sample2_SBD.flac