Topic: All kinds of questions (pres, ADs and rec to puter)

[divamum]

Hi guys -

Been a while since this opera singer checked in here (I know a coupla other classical singers post from time to time, but I haven't been around i a while!).  Got myself set up with the iRiver 120 and AT831 mics and have been going pretty good with that; it does what i need to, is super-convenient and no fuss and has basically been working out great.  Yeah, the file limit is a prime pia (why.... WHY did they do that?!) but it's still pretty much handling what I need.

Of course, now I've got the bug, and so am thinking ahead to The Next Stage. 

I'm considering expanding a bit.  For the moment, the iRiver is fine, but I'm toying with eventually going to PDAudio (especially since my old PDA is in death throes, and if I'm gonna have to get a new one it may as well be able to record!).  So I'm looking at starting to invest, piecemeal, in equipment for the future so I can ultimately put together a pretty good rig which can stealth as well as record onto computer.

First step is probably a pre-amp.  And if I'm going to get a preamp, I figure I may as well get one that is also an A>D in prep for PDAudio... and maybe can record into my laptop in the meantime?   So, I'm starting to sniff around for gear which can do this for me without having to invest in different equipment each time I "move on" to another stage.

I do want to go for the best sound I can get for my (low) budget, but other than that the biiggest requirement for me in a preamp is SMALL - both cause I have WAY too much garbage I cart around with me anyway (you ever carried a bunch of opera scores?! Oy) and because I do need to stealth with it (and in operaland, as I think others have explained, serious stealth is pretty important cause they get verrrryyy twitchy about bootlegs). I was considering the Core 2496 - a friend has one and loves it, but he also has the Core DPA 4060 HEB set, which I gather is pretty much the mics the 2496 was designed to favour.  How would it sound with my considerably less high end 831 binaurals?

Alternatively, the Denecke ad20 looks like it's nice and small and I gather a lot of people really like it (and it's CHEAPER!! lol).  Would it work w/ the iRiver and my mics and/or what would I need to make it work with my mics?  If I start using a preamp will I need a battery box too, or will the preamp provide the "plug in in" power my binaurals require?

And, of course, would any pre a>d work with the PDAudio or does it have to be the 2496?

Lastly, what exactly wolud  I need to start recording directly to my laptop? I gather this is more complicated than simply plugging in and going, but I'd be interested in knowing just what it would take both in terms of hardware (cables, soundcards etc) and software.

Many thanks in advance for your patience with more newb questions - really apprecaite it!

MG

[JAH]

give the folks who sell  the PDA  a call ( can someone point to a few vendors) and see what Q's they can answer for you.  As for pre AND adc box that is cheap in price (you do get what you pay for) what is the budget?  Sounds like you have some ideas.  Also there are some vendors that can answer you 'puter Q's too.

gfl
jah

[divamum]

Hi - thanks for getting the ball rolling!

To be honest, at this point just getting a better understanding of how to run my AT831 binaurals (1/8 stereo miniplug) into a preamp would be a good start (am I right in think that it's often more than merely getting the right size plug?  For instance, would there be any battery box requireents, gain issues etc?).

I freely admit that I am TOTALLY out of my depth with all this, but I'm keen to learn... hence why I'm asking (just remember that essentially I know nothing so you need to speak v.e.r.y. s.l.o.w.ly...........lol

So, for starters - suggestion for a very portable pre (ideally with a>d) that would run line in to my iRiver and carry my existing mics?  We'll start with that and then go from there...

Thanks so much!

[jaguaracer]

I'll see if I can answer some questions here...
For PDAudio, once you get the pdaudio compact flash card, yes, you can take in a digital signal (optical & coaxial) which means that a pre with A>D would be worth it. However, with your iRiver, there is no optical input meaning you would not be able to use the A>D function of the pre. This is one of the reasons the JB3, with analog (regular 1/8 plug) and digital inputs is highly favoured.
As for your question about Mc2496 (from coresounds site):
'Mic2496 runs on a single 9 volt battery and provides true 48 Volt phantom power to condensor microphones'
And any pre that has A>D function will work with PDaudio. Yes, both the mic2496 and ad20 seem like good choices because of their small size.
As for recording with your laptop, you are in luck my friend. The PDAudio CF card and the software can also be used on any machine running Linux, Windows 2000 or Windows XP. All you will need is a CF card reader (and some cables) and then you will be in business. Which means that you can run: mics->ad20(or mic2496)->pdaudiocf->laptop (pdaudio recording software) and once you get a new PDA, run: mics->ad20(or mic2496)->pdaudiocf->pda (pdarecording software).
Did that clear some things up? Just post if not.

[jaguaracer]

Just found this too...

In a laptop/desktop-based recorder, PDAudio-CF will provide a bit-for-bit accurate S/PDIF interface at up to 192 KS/s for use with most popular audio software applications

meaning you don't necessarily have to use pdaudio recording software when used in a laptop environment.

Website I'm looking at: http://www.core-sound.com/pdaudio-cf.html & http://www.core-sound.com/HighResRecorderNews.html

[divamum]

However, with your iRiver, there is no optical input meaning you would not be able to use the A>D function of the pre.

Actually.... there IS an optical input on the iRiver (at least there's a seletcion for one on the menu which offers you ext mic, line in, optical in etc).  So that may be one prob solved...

I've read the Core site which is where I"ve found most of my info to date, but I just don't have the "basic" knowledge to understand half of what I'm reading!!  And, to be honest, that's further down the line... I just wanna make sure I'm not buying something which categorically rules it out as an option in a year or so.

So... back to pre-a>d. Is the Core 2496 a good enough all-rounder to be my best option, and will it work with my mics?  If there are "better" options out there for a pre (remembering that SMALL physical size is important) any suggestions?

Sorry - I have  a feeling I'm not asking the questions terribly clearly... probably becasue I don't entirely understand what it is I don't know yet!  Thanks again for your help!

[Brian Skalinder]

One thing to note:  I believe the Mic2496 outputs 24-bit only, so you'll need a recorder that supports 24-bit.

[divamum]

Yes, TenoRich is indeed a colleague and I have talked to him about this unit (I know he likes his a lot; afaik he hasn't had probs w/it).

What about other options? I guess that's really what I need to figure out now - what other units might be worth considering with my existing setup?  Or should I just bag the whole "buying for the future" approach and simply get a decent small preamp and go from there (and if so.... which would be recommended?

Tx!

[Ray76]

I would also refer you to the Pres, Ad's etc. section here at TS.
I made the decision to purchase my preamp based on the info I recieved there.
here it is :
:http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=4.0

You can always look at the bottom of someones screen, see what rig they are using, and shoot them a pm to ask specific questions. I dont think most of em would mind.All great peeps here. Good luck. 
ray

[JAH]

I'll see if I can answer some questions here...
For PDAudio, once you get the pdaudio compact flash card, yes, you can take in a digital signal (optical & coaxial) which means that a pre with A>D would be worth it. However, with your iRiver, there is no optical input meaning you would not be able to use the A>D function of the pre. This is one of the reasons the JB3, with analog (regular 1/8 plug) and digital inputs is highly favoured.
As for your question about Mc2496 (from coresounds site):
'Mic2496 runs on a single 9 volt battery and provides true 48 Volt phantom power to condensor microphones'
And any pre that has A>D function will work with PDaudio. Yes, both the mic2496 and ad20 seem like good choices because of their small size.
As for recording with your laptop, you are in luck my friend. The PDAudio CF card and the software can also be used on any machine running Linux, Windows 2000 or Windows XP. All you will need is a CF card reader (and some cables) and then you will be in business. Which means that you can run: mics->ad20(or mic2496)->pdaudiocf->laptop (pdaudio recording software) and once you get a new PDA, run: mics->ad20(or mic2496)->pdaudiocf->pda (pdarecording software).
Did that clear some things up? Just post if not.

+T..gave me some info about stuff I don't run so haven't spent the time seeing how they run.
 I know a guy in STL that run the car circuits...he's in a modified probe and his father runs the jags....actually I think he went to another car.....yet another expensive hobby ;-)

peace
jah

[jaguaracer]

one day...



I'll get inside a Jag haha. Always been a fan of the (now defunct) Jaguar Formula One Racing Team.
And thanks for the correct, I was unaware the iRiver had an optical in.
There is also a good stealthing (re: Pres and A>D) topic here: http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=23;action=display;threadid=15781
And as I said before you are lucky with regards to grabbing gear.  You can start with a pre (either the ad20 or mic2496 for stealthing) and still use your iRiver (and tape this rig: mics->ad20(or mic2496)->iRiver). Then you can get the pdaudio cf card and start taping into your laptop (and tape this rig: mics->ad20(or mic2496)->pdaudiocf->laptop). And then, you can upgrade your pda (and start taping this rig: mics->ad20(or mic2496)->pdaudiocf->pda (pdarecording software)).
There is a very excellent, basic post here which should help one get a good grasp on the basics of the whole taping thing: http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=4237.0

should I just bag the whole "buying for the future" approach and simply get a decent small preamp and go from there

I would suggest starting with the decent preamp and then building up as I say above.  Storage cards (SD, CF) are still pretty expensive as is the pdaudio card and a new PDA. Maybe by the summer they will come down in price a bit. And you will still be able to get some great tapes going mics->ad20(or mic2496)->iRiver
Oh, and make sure you get an ad20 with external power too. A regular ad20 does not provide power. This one does though:
Keep posting if there are things that need to be cleared up.

[setboy]

One thing to note:  I believe the Mic2496 outputs 24-bit only, so you'll need a recorder that supports 24-bit.

i THINK i read some where you can lower the output on the mic2496 i know i saw some one on here ues(ed) it with a JB3

Raphael

[Brian Skalinder]

One thing to note:  I believe the Mic2496 outputs 24-bit only, so you'll need a recorder that supports 24-bit.

i THINK i read some where you can lower the output on the mic2496 i know i saw some one on here ues(ed) it with a JB3

I think you mean change the word length from 24-bit to 16-bit.  According to Core-Sound's own specs, it ONLY outputs 24-bit:

Edit to add:  Of course, Core-Sound implies the Mic2496 will work properly with the NJB3 and doesn't mention the fact that the JB3 will truncate 24-bits down to 16-bits.   

Mic2496 Specifications

    * Channels: 2
    * Word width: 24-bits
    * Sample rates: 44.1, 48, 88.2 and 96 KS/s via external switches; 32, 64, 176.4 and 192 KS/s via internal jumpers
    * Level controls: dual concentric
    * Gain: 13 to 53 dB (nominal)
    * Frequency response: 20 Hz to 40 KHz (+/- .2 dB), 30 Hz to 40 KHz (+/- .1 dB)
    * Noise level: -135 to -140 dB (Ref: 0 dBFS, 20 Hz to 40 KHz, typical)
    * Separation: greater than 95 dB (20 Hz to 40 KHz, typical)
    * Phantom power: switchable P48V; 9 Volt or none via internal jumpers
    * Input: 5-pin mini-XLR jack (mates with Switchcraft TA5FLB); breakout cables available for two XLR-F and 1/8" mini jack, others available
    * Outputs: coaxial (1/8" mono mini-jack), optical (Toslink)
    * Output data format: S/PDIF
    * Output level: S/PDIF standard; Sony TCD-D3/-D7/-D8 levels via internal jumper
    * Indicators: Activity (-12 dBFS) and Clip (-1.5 dBFS), per channel; low battery; P48V On
    * Power:
      Internal: 9 Volt battery (Type 1604)
      External: 7 to 14 Volts DC @ 180 mA (5.0/2.1 mm DC power jack)
    * Operating time: 6 hours (typical, P48V off), 4+ hours (typical, P48V on)
    * Current consumption: 110mA (P48V off), 145mA (P48V on)
    * Dimensions: 5-1/16" L x 3" W x 1-3/8" H
    * Weight: 9.75 ounces (278 grams)

[setboy]

One thing to note:  I believe the Mic2496 outputs 24-bit only, so you'll need a recorder that supports 24-bit.

i THINK i read some where you can lower the output on the mic2496 i know i saw some one on here ues(ed) it with a JB3

I think you mean change the word length from 24-bit to 16-bit.  According to Core-Sound's own specs, it ONLY outputs 24-bit:

Mic2496 Specifications

    * Channels: 2
    * Word width: 24-bits
    * Sample rates: 44.1, 48, 88.2 and 96 KS/s via external switches; 32, 64, 176.4 and 192 KS/s via internal jumpers
    * Level controls: dual concentric
    * Gain: 13 to 53 dB (nominal)
    * Frequency response: 20 Hz to 40 KHz (+/- .2 dB), 30 Hz to 40 KHz (+/- .1 dB)
    * Noise level: -135 to -140 dB (Ref: 0 dBFS, 20 Hz to 40 KHz, typical)
    * Separation: greater than 95 dB (20 Hz to 40 KHz, typical)
    * Phantom power: switchable P48V; 9 Volt or none via internal jumpers
    * Input: 5-pin mini-XLR jack (mates with Switchcraft TA5FLB); breakout cables available for two XLR-F and 1/8" mini jack, others available
    * Outputs: coaxial (1/8" mono mini-jack), optical (Toslink)
    * Output data format: S/PDIF
    * Output level: S/PDIF standard; Sony TCD-D3/-D7/-D8 levels via internal jumper
    * Indicators: Activity (-12 dBFS) and Clip (-1.5 dBFS), per channel; low battery; P48V On
    * Power:
      Internal: 9 Volt battery (Type 1604)
      External: 7 to 14 Volts DC @ 180 mA (5.0/2.1 mm DC power jack)
    * Operating time: 6 hours (typical, P48V off), 4+ hours (typical, P48V on)
    * Current consumption: 110mA (P48V off), 145mA (P48V on)
    * Dimensions: 5-1/16" L x 3" W x 1-3/8" H
    * Weight: 9.75 ounces (278 grams)

like i said thats just what i THINK i read some where and just because i read it some where does not make it right


Raphael

[Brian Skalinder]

like i said thats just what i THINK i read some where and just because i read it some where does not make it right

Exactly why I quoted Core-Sound's own specs, to clarify for everyone so we don't have to make decisions on hearsay.

[setboy]

like i said thats just what i THINK i read some where and just because i read it some where does not make it right

Exactly why I quoted Core-Sound's own specs, to clarify for everyone so we don't have to make decisions on hearsay.

T+ 

[divamum]

jjaguaracer - thanks loads ! You're kinda gettin' where I'm at now, so things are starting to make sense   You're describing exactly what I want to do - add the pre for the time being to use w/ the iriver, and then build up as appropriate (and as budget allows). Eventually I want to upgrade the mics too, but I think I need a lottery win (or a very VERY high-paying gig to come my way....

Just a few more q's:

- clearly my AT831 binaural mics need a power source... so it's a pre that either has (or is adpated to have) a battery box "built in", yes?   Just clarifying this.

- what about gain? Somebody mentioned somewhere that the AD20 has too much gain for my mics and has to be modfied or tweaked or soemthing. Not sure if this issue is solved by the battery box inclusion or not (I'm learning... but still a little shaky on some of this stuff - sorry for dufus noob stuff!)

- can the iRiver support 24 bits?  Or do I need to have an preA+D adjusted for that?

- can you record DIRECTLY to a laptop using a pre A+D, or does it always need to go through another stage (ie require another piece of equipment)?

Tx again - you guys are the best!

[divamum]

BTW,  I believe TenoRich uses the 2496 w/ a JB3. Don't know if it's adjusted in some way to make it possible, but that's his rig afaik.

[admkrk]

Edit to add:  Of course, Core-Sound implies the Mic2496 will work properly with the NJB3 and doesn't mention the fact that the JB3 will truncate 24-bits down to 16-bits.

i realy hate that word 

[Brian Skalinder]

Edit to add:  Of course, Core-Sound implies the Mic2496 will work properly with the NJB3 and doesn't mention the fact that the JB3 will truncate 24-bits down to 16-bits.

i realy hate that word

Why?

[admkrk]

no particular reason. it just sounds like it leaves something missing, i guess.  now i'm wondering if i should defrag or not

[Brian Skalinder]

no particular reason. it just sounds like it leaves something missing, i guess. now i'm wondering if i should defrag or not

lol  Truncation leaving something missing...imagine that!  Good one... 

[admkrk]

what can i say,                 i'm an ass