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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: Belexes on March 20, 2006, 03:49:49 PM
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I currently own a set of SP-CMC-8's with an SP battery box. I've heard concerts with the DPA4061's and they sound like an upgrade to me.
Would everyone agree and if so, where is the best place to purchase a new set of these mics?
Also, would the battery box I currently have work with the DPA's? I own two portable DAT's, a Sony D-7 and an M-1.
Thanks!
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new DPA4061's have a proprietary connector on them called a microdot... it looks like a little tiny cable tv coax cable... The way that you can use your sound pros bb is to solder 4061's (presumably from ebay) onto a stereo miniplug.
406x's are great mics.
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Yikes, I wasn't aware the connector was proprietary. Is there any place that could do the soldering for me or perhaps buy them already modified? I'll have to keep an eye on Ebay.
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i think they sound nice as long as you like stacking, which you might not always be able to do, and dont move at all because they are do sensitive you can hear swishing with the slightest movement
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i think they sound nice as long as you like stacking, which you might not always be able to do, and dont move at all because they are do sensitive you can hear swishing with the slightest movement
I gotta call BS on both counts. How many times have you worn 4061s?
The suggestion that they are only appropriate for stack taping is just way wrong, as countless sources demonstrate.
Same for 'swishing with the slightest movement'. As an omni, they should be less prone to movement induced phase or wind issues than a card or hyper. They are way less sensitive to cable or body handling than my AT853's were. I regularly wear schoeps cards and hypers at 40-55dB of gain with no 'swishing'. So wearing omnis, especially at the lower levels required for rock shows, is cake.
I bought mine used on ebay and changed the connector from lemo to miniplug. I was fortunate to get a good pair. The ebay DPAs are a bit of a risk. That is especially true if you need to change the connector in order to test them. You can't really cut and solder them and then send them back saying they don't work right, etc.
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i think they sound nice as long as you like stacking
I respectfully disagree as well. I think they are a very versatile mic, and I've made many recordings that I've enjoyed with them in many different situations. As with any mics, they are sensitive to extreme movements, but not slight ones. My experience has been that if I move my head from side to side, its not a problem; if I look down (to look at my levels, for example) I get a flange-esque sound. Other mics I've stealthed with were way more sensiitive to this - I've had a certain kind of mics have an auditory effect when someone walks in front of them (and they weren't the DPAs).
I have also put them in a jeklin disc right under a ceiling fan sans windscreens, and not heard any wind rumble.
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i think they sound nice as long as you like stacking, which you might not always be able to do, and dont move at all because they are do sensitive you can hear swishing with the slightest movement
I also disagree. Best tapes I've got with the 4061s are DFC in the middle of the floor, in the middle of a standing crowd. I was basically forming a perfect triangle with the stacks. No noticeable swishing at all either, and I'm not the best at standing stock-still.
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i think they sound nice as long as you like stacking, which you might not always be able to do, and dont move at all because they are do sensitive you can hear swishing with the slightest movement
I also disagree. Best tapes I've got with the 4061s are DFC in the middle of the floor, in the middle of a standing crowd. I was basically forming a perfect triangle with the stacks. No noticeable swishing at all either, and I'm not the best at standing stock-still.
This is exactly what I do as well.
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yeah that is total BS. i've taped in mosh pits with the 4061s and have been spun around and moved all about and you don't hear any swishing on the tapes. all that you'll hear is some change in the sound mix due to the movement. the 4061s work great FOBDFC in a venue that is loud and sounds decent, no stack humping is necessary. i wish you could hear my Opeth tape (4061s - front of balcony DFC) shit turned out SICK.
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Were gonna have to work out a trade my man ... ;D
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I also second the popular opinion here. I have moved quite a bit with my 4061s and haven't experienced any phasing or swishing sounds of the mic rubbing against my clothing/jacket/whatever. As someone else mentioned, cards would be far more likely to be susceptible to this sort of issue.
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BS indeed ;D
here's something i did a few weeks ago from a bit behind the board and up in the balcony,
4061, 9 volts into m1, no pre, file was normalized, nothing more.
http://s63.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0GW2BR2TFL7KD2IJ6GP3E2W0OC
i only hear sensitivity to moving around when i run front row>stack setups
with any bit of distance, no problems.
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I appreciate the replies on this topic I started, keep them coming.
I'm a statute when I stealth record...almost stick out like a sore thumb because I don't look natural but the results of the recording are what I am after.
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I'll chime in on the swishing topic, too - I've recently begun wearing my 4060s on my glasses and I'm hearing no problems with looking down for levels or side to side. It is a whole new world sound-wise.
Keep your eyes peeled for a set in the yard sale - it seems like not too long ago there were 3 pairs for sale at once. I got my set out of the yard sale and it was a fine investment for the upgrade in sound and versatility.
Good to see you here Belexes - I've got some good stuff in my collection from your torrents on the dime.
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well i have heard two real good recordings from two different people the last month and both have the same swishing sound, bottom line is 4061's are omnis and the fact is you will need to be in tight to pull a nice recording, if you get lucky a few times thats just it,luck, not to mention the fact that if you happen to see a band with any sort of panning at all your fucked....
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well i have heard two real good recordings from two different people the last month and both have the same swishing sound, bottom line is 4061's are omnis and the fact is you will need to be in tight to pull a nice recording, if you get lucky a few times thats just it,luck, not to mention the fact that if you happen to see a band with any sort of panning at all your fucked....
I disagree, again. I've used these mics for probably 15-20 shows now, several using them head-worn (on hat), and I haven't had any issues. Close in doesn't sound better to me either. Good positioning on the floor sounds fantastic though. Listened to many other tapes others have made with 4061s/4060s and haven't heard any major issues like what you describe.
You're entitled to your opinion though. I'm done arguing my point. Others are more articulate with it anyway.
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well i have heard two real good recordings from two different people the last month and both have the same swishing sound, bottom line is 4061's are omnis and the fact is you will need to be in tight to pull a nice recording, if you get lucky a few times thats just it,luck, not to mention the fact that if you happen to see a band with any sort of panning at all your fucked....
So..... You have never even used 4061's yourself?
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well i have heard two real good recordings from two different people the last month and both have the same swishing sound, bottom line is 4061's are omnis and the fact is you will need to be in tight to pull a nice recording, if you get lucky a few times thats just it,luck, not to mention the fact that if you happen to see a band with any sort of panning at all your fucked....
Your "fact" is hardly "fact". Sorry, but I once again COMPLETELY disagree with you, and it comes from using 4061s + 4060s for over 2 years now as my ONLY mics. I am more than happy with them.
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So..... You have never even used 4061's yourself?
yup, sure have. Mounted on a stand about 12' high and 40 feet back. Sounds nice but to much crowd noise. The C1000 source from the same place sounds better and I dont even like those mics...
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Belexes, it sounds like you've already heard shows with the 4061s, and you've decided that you like them, so I wouldn't pay attention to our debate about them. Just trust your own ears and what you like, and go with it.
I don't know if anyone answered your original inquiry, but you can use your current SP battery box, but you will have to get your 2 mics and solder them to a stereo miniplug (or have someone else do it...) - most people get them from ebay w/ lemo connectors, and cut off the connectors. But the problem here is that they are often not very well matched.
There are some mathmatecal/analytic reasons to believe that the DPA pres/bb's sound better than the SP battery box, but I've never done an A/B blind comparison to hear if its an audible difference. I made that jump, but I changed everything in my rig at once, so I can't single out the improvements and relate it to a particular gear change.
I'd strongly suggest NOT purchasing new ones with microdots if you are going to cut the connectors - you're just wasting money then.
my 2 cents, hope it helps.
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Your "fact" is hardly "fact". Sorry, but I once again COMPLETELY disagree with you, and it comes from using 4061s + 4060s for over 2 years now as my ONLY mics. I am more than happy with them.
i'm glad your happy with them, last time I checked everyone was different and people were entitled to different opinions. I have gotten some of your 4061 shows from the hub and they do sound nice but whether or not you COMPLETELY or INCOMPLETELY disagree with me doesnt matter. There is no mic on this planet that is great for every possible recording situation, including 406x's. Hell the neumann and schoeps guys spend all kinds of time arguing back and forth over which is better but since thats a subjective thing isnt it pointless. I stated an opinion and all you 4061 boys have to attack? hahahahhahahahaha
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So you put them on a stand once but haven't worn them?
yeah, i am pretty much tired of having to "wear" mics after 20 yrs of this crap but if I have to I would rather be back in the center of a room with a nice card in a din or nos
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Your "fact" is hardly "fact". Sorry, but I once again COMPLETELY disagree with you, and it comes from using 4061s + 4060s for over 2 years now as my ONLY mics. I am more than happy with them.
i'm glad your happy with them, last time I checked everyone was different and people were entitled to different opinions. I have gotten some of your 4061 shows from the hub and they do sound nice
I guess I must just be a lucky taper then:
well i have heard two real good recordings from two different people the last month and both have the same swishing sound, bottom line is 4061's are omnis and the fact is you will need to be in tight to pull a nice recording, if you get lucky a few times thats just it,luck, not to mention the fact that if you happen to see a band with any sort of panning at all your fucked....
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no mics will shine everytime. no way not ever. what would be cool would be some cards that have the same frequency response as omnis but with that polished card sound. sometimes the cards just cut too damn much bass and make for a thin sounding recording. i'm a bass freak and like to feel the fucking bass, not just have a little trickle of low end comming through (which is what the C1000 have always sounded like to my ears...leave those suckers at home as your drum overheads). FWIW I tape The Big Wu with my MG rig and there's so much crowd noise on the tape that it's barely worth listening to. Even worse is that the majority of the noise is from the opening band who decided to camp next to my stand for the Wu set and have a loud conversation. They had the nerve to ask me if I taped their set after trashing my recording of the band I paid to see but I told them i didn't and deleted the bullshit. You'd THINK that jam bands themselves who are familiar with the scene would know better than that. I don't remember what those guys were called but fuck them, never pay to see...whoever they were :P. But yeah, the 4061s are more like a love/hate thing with me. Sometimes I really love the tapes but other times they don't get the job done. I was able to open tape the Violent Femmes with my 4061s but the idiot house security guy told me i had to set my stand up inside the rear sound cage. Don't EVER tape with those mics from the absolute rear of a deep ballroom. Unfortunately their sound guy was being a loud sucker that night as well. The recording sounds soooo distant and tiny that it's hard to listen to. Oh well. Other times though the omnis are RAW and in your face. My DEP set from last december is still probably my favorite tape I've made with those mics. The venue PA sucked ass so I got in close to get stage sound and it's like you're right there. The 4061s are the new trendy stealth mic though...might be time to consider my other options. :P
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i'm glad your happy with them, last time I checked everyone was different and people were entitled to different opinions.
Of course.. But usually folks around here qualify their opinion with their experience and biases. If they don't actually have experience, they say so or don't talk trash. In this case your comments seemed to contradict much actual experience and it was not surprising to learn (after digging) that your experience with the mics in question is extremely limited to non-existent.. and that you Hate wearing mics is a significant bias. So are you actually contributing with your comments or simply talking trash?
How can you say they 'cause swishing with the slighest movement' when you have not ever worn them? Why would you say that and not mention 'but I've never even worn them myself and hate wearing mics...' It is disingenuous.
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The 4061s are the new trendy stealth mic though...might be time to consider my other options. :P
Not new, and not trendy.... :)
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Not NEW but they are the new fad. It seems like every stealther is switching to 4061s now and it's getting kind of old hearing nothing but omni tapes as of late. ;) So...I'm looking for something different (active mg kit if available and i have the cash ;) ;) ). But man, the 4061s are the absolute easiest mic to stealth ever. They're tiny enough that you can hide them almost anywhere to get through the gates and they're super dooper easy to mount and wear and don't get flange with movement. I don't think there's going to be anything else that's as easy to stealth with until DPA releases some cards the size of the omnis. I sure do hope that they release those things SOMETIME down the road. I don't wanna have to get a schemps kit and be one of those guys :P Until then though...fuck it. I'm gonna get a straw hat and stealth my MG rig for some Steve Smith Vital Information thing at the end of the month. I know everyone who works at the venue and probably a good portion of everyone in attendance as well so it should be cake. I'm thinkin that I just mount the mics in the hat and run the cables into a backpack on my back and wear a hoodie to cover up the back of the hat where the cables are comming down. Should be a fun little challenge for me. If it works I'll do it again for Six Feet Under next month. :D
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dude, you have to take a pic of you stealthing under a huge straw hat at six feet under.
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what would be better is a big hat like that wrestler The Undertaker used to wear. Then I could dress all death metal and not totally stand out. What's weird though is that there is zero info about the venue they're playing in Milwaukee anywhere. I've never heard of it and can't find a website for it so I really don't know what to expect. Usually when it's just a bar/tiny club there's zero door security so i'm just gonna assume that I can walk right in. I even asked permission and they were like "six feet under does NOT ALLOW RECORDINGS EVER!!!" so fuck them. It's not like they're even that good anymore. They switched to more of a grindcore type sound where it's just all sludgy metal sounding shit, or it could be the geniuses at Morissound Studios who don't know how to properly mix albums, and I really think their last album is kinda crappy. So yeah, I'm gonna try to pull a smoker from those pussies. High On Fire gave me the OK but said that they're kinda pissed cuz the tapers never send them copies of the shows so be sure to hook em up nice with anything you might have. Now...back to discussion of why 4061s are sick stealth mics and why one guys comments seemed to have pissed everyone off. It's kind of funny because for once it wasn't my big mouth that started the thrashing. You guys have fun though I'm gonna try to chill out and get to sleep here if the chocolate will allow it. Werd.
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I even asked permission and they were like "six feet under does NOT ALLOW RECORDINGS EVER!!!" so fuck them. It's not like they're even that good anymore. They switched to more of a grindcore type sound where it's just all sludgy metal sounding shit, or it could be the geniuses at Morissound Studios who don't know how to properly mix albums, and I really think their last album is kinda crappy. So yeah, I'm gonna try to pull a smoker from those pussies.
I saw them a long time ago- might have been their first tour right after Chris Barnes left CC... and they didn't do much for me.
High On Fire gave me the OK but said that they're kinda pissed cuz the tapers never send them copies of the shows so be sure to hook em up nice with anything you might have.
I'm going to be taping them in about 1 month, and I have 4 or 5 shows that I am going to give to them when they come around again.
Now...back to discussion of why 4061s are sick stealth mics and why one guys comments seemed to have pissed everyone off. It's kind of funny because for once it wasn't my big mouth that started the thrashing. You guys have fun though I'm gonna try to chill out and get to sleep here if the chocolate will allow it. Werd.
I'm not pissed at all... I just disagree vehemently.... :lol:
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But man, the 4061s are the absolute easiest mic to stealth ever. They're tiny enough that you can hide them almost anywhere to get through the gates and they're super dooper easy to mount and wear and don't get flange with movement. I don't think there's going to be anything else that's as easy to stealth with until DPA releases some cards the size of the omnis.
I think part of the popularity has to do with the availability of DPA406x's, you can pretty much find a distributor everywhere in the world and the price is decent. As for 'easiest', not going to disagree but I'd say Sanken COS-11s are just as easy, they just don't seem to be too popular outside of Japan. Personally, I prefer their sound over the DPA mini-mic sound but of course location is key to a good recording and opinions are subjective.
Go here for a picture of them: http://www.sanken-mic.com/english/condenser/cos-11s.html
Didn't mean to hijack the topic, just in case.
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But man, the 4061s are the absolute easiest mic to stealth ever. They're tiny enough that you can hide them almost anywhere to get through the gates and they're super dooper easy to mount and wear and don't get flange with movement. I don't think there's going to be anything else that's as easy to stealth with until DPA releases some cards the size of the omnis.
I think part of the popularity has to do with the availability of DPA406x's, you can pretty much find a distributor everywhere in the world and the price is decent. As for 'easiest', not going to disagree but I'd say Sanken COS-11s are just as easy, they just don't seem to be too popular outside of Japan. Personally, I prefer their sound over the DPA mini-mic sound but of course location is key to a good recording and opinions are subjective.
Go here for a picture of them: http://www.sanken-mic.com/english/condenser/cos-11s.html
Didn't mean to hijack the topic, just in case.
yep, the cos-11s are another option to consider. from what i've heard, i prefer the 406xs, but the cos-11s are the only option that might give DPA a run for their money. not that i think they do. ;)
i also agree with freelunch's latest reply to jcrab.
i'm glad your happy with them, last time I checked everyone was different and people were entitled to different opinions.
Of course.. But usually folks around here qualify their opinion with their experience and biases. If they don't actually have experience, they say so or don't talk trash. In this case your comments seemed to contradict much actual experience and it was not surprising to learn (after digging) that your experience with the mics in question is extremely limited to non-existent.. and that you Hate wearing mics is a significant bias. So are you actually contributing with your comments or simply talking trash?
How can you say they 'cause swishing with the slighest movement' when you have not ever worn them? Why would you say that and not mention 'but I've never even worn them myself and hate wearing mics...' It is disingenuous.
preach it, brother. we need noone acting like he always walks around with an internet-wheelbarrow.
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zhiao - you stateside yet?
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zhiao - you stateside yet?
nej, won't be till almost august, which is great news for my life but shitty news for seeing shows! i'll be missing ministry (FUCK!!!), slayer, NIN, ozzfest for the first time in forever, and hopefully not too many others. i flew down to berlin for in flames and sepultura last weekend, though, because i haven't seen a hard show since august. pm me about how the concert was! :)
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Belexes, it sounds like you've already heard shows with the 4061s, and you've decided that you like them, so I wouldn't pay attention to our debate about them. Just trust your own ears and what you like, and go with it.
I don't know if anyone answered your original inquiry, but you can use your current SP battery box, but you will have to get your 2 mics and solder them to a stereo miniplug (or have someone else do it...) - most people get them from ebay w/ lemo connectors, and cut off the connectors. But the problem here is that they are often not very well matched.
There are some mathmatecal/analytic reasons to believe that the DPA pres/bb's sound better than the SP battery box, but I've never done an A/B blind comparison to hear if its an audible difference. I made that jump, but I changed everything in my rig at once, so I can't single out the improvements and relate it to a particular gear change.
I'd strongly suggest NOT purchasing new ones with microdots if you are going to cut the connectors - you're just wasting money then.
my 2 cents, hope it helps.
That helps a lot if I do decide to make the jump. It'd probably be easiest to just pick up a pair on EBAY that already has the stero plug on them. I'l keep an eye out.
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Wow. This thread has gone in some odd directions.
I stealth about half of the shows I hit, if not more. I love bass which is something my current mics (AT831s) just can't seem to handle. I also really appreciate awesome stereo separation, something that seems easy to achieve using HRTF mounted mics. All answers would seem to point to the DPA 4060 as being the mic to go to. I've heard some amazing tapes done by pfife and fuzn using DPA 406x. It is wild to know that you can get such high quality sound from such (sometimes) low-priced mics.
Unfortunately though, it seems that DPA 406x mics are becoming harder and harder to find for a good price. The pairs on Ebay are going for $600 or have lemo connectors which I don't want to deal with. The big step I need to decide is if it is worth it to buy them new or just wait it out.
DPA 4060s = $750 new
DPA MMA6000 = $500
That's $1250. Hell, for $2000, I could get an MK4 > Nbox set-up going. Although I've never been the biggest Schoeps fan, for stealthing I'd imagine they almost always beat the DPAs.
Pity because I'd really like to take my tapes to the next level. That level can't cost $750 at the moment though. :P
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That's $1250. Hell, for $2000, I could get an MK4 > Nbox set-up going. Although I've never been the biggest Schoeps fan, for stealthing I'd imagine they almost always beat the DPAs.
now your just talking silly! ;D
lol. I'd actually love some samples either way. ;) :)
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Just be patient Aaron. I was lucky enough that when I bought my Sonic Studio Mics that one of them broke (and I didn't tape with them), sent it back for a refund and found the 4061's on Ebay for $380. they will come around! :)
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That's $1250. Hell, for $2000, I could get an MK4 > Nbox set-up going. Although I've never been the biggest Schoeps fan, for stealthing I'd imagine they almost always beat the DPAs.
now your just talking silly! ;D
lol. I'd actually love some samples either way. ;) :)
Aaron-
Did you check out my Death Cab tape from last November? DFC, FOB standing in the crowd. They're worth the dough as far as I'm concerned.
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=31893
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That's $1250. Hell, for $2000, I could get an MK4 > Nbox set-up going. Although I've never been the biggest Schoeps fan, for stealthing I'd imagine they almost always beat the DPAs.
now your just talking silly! ;D
lol. I'd actually love some samples either way. ;) :)
Aaron-
Did you check out my Death Cab tape from last November? DFC, FOB standing in the crowd. They're worth the dough as far as I'm concerned.
http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=31893
Oh yes. I love that Death Cab tape. That tape completely sold me on the mics and made me realize that omnis weren't anything to be afraid of. The inability to acquire these mics used is what is getting me down though. :-[
EDIT: I spoke about 10 minutes too soon. Hopped on Ebay and grabbed a pair attached to a 1/8 plug for a pretty good price. Woo! :)
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+t for new toys!
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preach it, brother. we need noone acting like he always walks around with an internet-wheelbarrow.
so do you actually let him nut in your ass or do you make him pull out?
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so do you actually let him nut in your ass or do you make him pull out?
You got called out - legitimately - and that's all you have to offer? ::) Well, now I *really* respect and appreciate your previous comments about the mics you've never used. :lol:
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I'm thinkin that I just mount the mics in the hat and run the cables into a backpack on my back and wear a hoodie to cover up the back of the hat where the cables are comming down.
Be careful with that, I had someone yank my hat off my head from behind and launch it into the pit at a soulfly show. I was able to fish the hat back in with my mic cables, but the one cap/cable was yanked too hard. >:(
If you're taping evil shit or have a rowdy crowd, I'd make sure they could break free easily if you're planning on mounting them in the hat. 2 years without the DPA's was sad, love em.
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actually bri i have used them and i have heard plenty of recordings made by them and just voiced an opinion but i forgot, your always right so I wont say anything else ::)
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but i forgot, your always right so I wont say anything else ::)
I'm often wrong, but this isn't one of those moments - I've not taken a stance on the discussion one way or the other.
actually bri i have used them and i have heard plenty of recordings made by them and just voiced an opinion
You're entitled to your opinion and no one suggested otherwise.
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well i have heard two real good recordings from two different people the last month and both have the same swishing sound, bottom line is 4061's are omnis and the fact is you will need to be in tight to pull a nice recording, if you get lucky a few times thats just it,luck, not to mention the fact that if you happen to see a band with any sort of panning at all your fucked....
you dont really need to be up tight, but as omni's, proximity is good. but thats true w/any mic.
-55 tickets? how'd that happen ::)
the DPAs are areguably the finest sounding little mic like this around. everybody uses them for that reason, and due to the good deals and wide availability. they sound great on your head, exceptional on a baffle or Jdisk, and very sweet spaced out 4 or 5 feet, which is how I often ran mine when I had mine.
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actually bri i have used them and i have heard plenty of recordings made by them and just voiced an opinion
You're entitled to your opinion and no one suggested otherwise.
.....even if its totaly ass-backwards.
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I'd strongly suggest NOT purchasing new ones with microdots if you are going to cut the connectors - you're just wasting money then.
A pair are on Ebay if anyone is interested...with the microdots. :(
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That's $1250. Hell, for $2000, I could get an MK4 > Nbox set-up going. Although I've never been the biggest Schoeps fan, for stealthing I'd imagine they almost always beat the DPAs.
i was as surprised as anyone that in many situations, a good 406x setup can definitely play with the big boys. unless i suffer some financial catastrophe, i don't think i'll ever get rid of my 4061s, no matter what else i add to my setup.
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i was as surprised as anyone that in many situations, a good 406x setup can definitely play with the big boys.
Definitely.. but it depends on the situation.. I continue to hang onto my 4061's with a deathgrip even though I haven't used them in a long while. Given a choice between 4061's and mk4 actives, I always pick the mk4's. The only exception might be something where intense security prevents my first choice (or maybe weather/wind/etc).
The cards will have the obvious minor advantages.. Like the woman sitting behind you opening a candy wrapper during your jazz show and it shows up on the 4061 version but not the mk21 or mk4. If you have a hard clapper sitting right next to you, cards aren't really going to solve that problem.
But there is a much bigger difference in other cases.. I recorded the SF Jazz Collective last week from the front row of an okay sounding room. Unfortunately, I could hear it all bouncing off the back wall and reflecting back.. Those reflections weren't just the character of a nice sounding room, they were nasty boom and reflection. From my seat it really didn't sound very good at all. It sounded pretty nasty.
Adding to the problem was the instrument position and their attempt to squeeze all musicians in the front row: vibraphone, trombone, sax and trumpet. Hell, the drums were even way up front along the side. The piano was in the back.. The LCJO, in contrast, uses a traditional stage layout and Marsalis has no problem standing way in the back where he should be as a trumpet player.. I'm not sure if it is egos that force everyone to try and be up front with SFJC.. but I digress.. Bottom line is that I could not hear certain instruments from my great seat..
The cards cut the mud and the result sounds excellent and much better than the sound at my seat. I know any omni would have picked up the nasty room and the result would have been hugely disappointing.. It might be interesting to compare the 4061 to the AT853 in a situation like this.. I am not a big fan of at853's but this is a case where they just might have beat the dpa's..
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i was as surprised as anyone that in many situations, a good 406x setup can definitely play with the big boys.
Definitely.. but it depends on the situation..
i agree completely.
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This thread has me inspired . . . . I'm thinking the DPAs would be a great alternative mic to have available for heavy-duty stealth situations.
Can someone explain to me the differences between the 4060's and the 4061's?
Thanks.
:)
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They would probably compliment your mk41's well.. Especially in cases where you know you'll have to move around during the show or if a lot of people will be passing right in front of you, etc. Some people run the 4061's on their shoulders (poking out the shirt seam) to avoid any hat at all. Even when I Know those people are taping, it can be really hard to tell. Another way to run them is mounted on a bag or on the shoulders of a coat draped over a chair (at jazz clubs, etc, those techniques can work better than hat mounting).
The big difference between them is that the 4060 output is about 6dB higher than the 4061.
For what I record, I wish I had 4060's instead of 4061's. I don't need the 144dB of sound pressure that the 4061 can handle (vs. 134 for the 4061). The 4060 has 3dB better signal to noise and dynamic range.. The higher output of the 4060 would help when using noisy pre-amps like the microtrack or at quiet shows.. The 4060's are much harder to find used.
They are small enough to hide in your hair without a hat.. I'd suggest borrowing a pair, along with a little extra gear, and try running them along with the schoeps. You could probably tape them temporarily along the band so they poke down just in front of your ears (the ear is very reflective and I don't like to run my dpa's too close to them). Alternatively, you could run them in the hat but if your head isn't acting as a baffle, you'll lose some imaging.
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This thread has me inspired . . . . I'm thinking the DPAs would be a great alternative mic to have available for heavy-duty stealth situations.
Can someone explain to me the differences between the 4060's and the 4061's?
Thanks.
:)
To make it simple, the lower the number the higher the sensitivity/higher output.
4060 sensitive
4061 low sensitivity
4062 extra low sensitivity
the lower the sensitivity the higher the spl handling, but even the 4060's should handle a loud rock show as long as you can handle the hot signal. The self noise goes up a touch with the drop in sensitivity as well.
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They are small enough to hide in your hair without a hat.. I'd suggest borrowing a pair, along with a little extra gear, and try running them along with the schoeps. You could probably tape them temporarily along the band so they poke down just in front of your ears (the ear is very reflective and I don't like to run my dpa's too close to them). Alternatively, you could run them in the hat but if your head isn't acting as a baffle, you'll lose some imaging.
I didn't know the ear was that reflective. I'll need to find a good way to mount my new toys.
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4060 is the one you want. the 61s are overkill.
and they sound AWESOME mounted on your head, on a j-disc, any type of baffle or split a few feet.
I made many great recordings using them in an open taping environment on my home-made "omni antenna"
:0
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in fact, i'd go as far as to say that the 4060 could easily be the best universal concert taping mic available for many reasons, but the big one being consistantly pleasing results, as long as you can position yourself favorably.
1. easy to run
2. easy to power
3. easy to hide, if necessary
4. versitile in that you can run omnis in many ways
5. they produce !
Ive run them into shitty gear (line in on a JB3, for example) and high end gear (v3, dpa pre, etc etc) and they excell w/everything.
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After taping MMW last Thursday I love my dpa's, the results are stunning.
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I'd strongly suggest NOT purchasing new ones with microdots if you are going to cut the connectors - you're just wasting money then.
Another option that, although doesn't waste $, does cost more is to also purchase microdot-to-1/8 mini adaptors (available for $80 at sweetwater). Of course, that adds $160 to the cost, puts another link in the chain, don't know if it would affect stealthability much.
Might be better just to go with the DPA battery box, or HEB's from CoreSound. Not much price difference then, when you add up new DPA 406Xs, adaptors, & the cost of a SP 9or other) battery box.
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I think it'd be cheaper to go with new 406Xs and a DPA box over the $990 charged for the basic HEB set at Core Sound. Plus, you don't have to deal with a grumpy man on the phone.
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I'm going to be in the market for a pair of 4060's shortly.
If anyone regrets their's not getting sufficient exercise, please get in touch. ;)
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save your money val, sell the SBM>M1 and buy an ACM660.
that will yeild you better results than new mics.
;-)
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save your money val, sell the SBM>M1 and buy an ACM660.
that will yeild you better results than new mics.
;-)
What's an ACM660, Nick? How big? How much? :)
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save your money val, sell the SBM>M1 and buy an ACM660.
that will yeild you better results than new mics.
;-)
What's an ACM660, Nick? How big? How much? :)
Here's a good intro the ACM PMD660:
http://www.oade.com/digital_recorders/hard_disc_recorders/PMD-660.html
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save your money val, sell the SBM>M1 and buy an ACM660.
that will yeild you better results than new mics.
;-)
Sell a nice 16 bit A/D and recorder for another flavor of 16 bit and you'll get better results than new mics? ^-^
The hypers you have Val are pretty sweet, but adding another mic into the mix would help in the right situations. Having a versatile seletion of mics is a much better investment than jumping from one 16bit recorder to another, but that's just my opinion.
Then buy an Oade modded 660... ;D
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I took a quick look at the 660 -- it's just too big. I don't doubt how wonderful it sounds; however, it's just too large for my purpose.
I think I've got my heart set on the 4060's. I really enjoy the DPA sound and like how small they are. I will be able to bring the 4060's into shows I would otherwise not tape.
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in fact, i'd go as far as to say that the 4060 could easily be the best universal concert taping mic available for many reasons, but the big one being consistantly pleasing results, as long as you can position yourself favorably.
1. easy to run
2. easy to power
3. easy to hide, if necessary
4. versitile in that you can run omnis in many ways
5. they produce !
Ive run them into shitty gear (line in on a JB3, for example) and high end gear (v3, dpa pre, etc etc) and they excell w/everything.
TS's most truthful post ever. ;D
I love my 4060s. However, there are rare occassions when I wish I had some hypers... but that's what teammates are for! :D
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I took a quick look at the 660 -- it's just too big. I don't doubt how wonderful it sounds; however, it's just too large for my purpose.
I think I've got my heart set on the 4060's. I really enjoy the DPA sound and like how small they are. I will be able to bring the 4060's into shows I would otherwise not tape.
You could even get away with 4060 > D100 line in for an extra light and compact setup. You can't go wrong!
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the other option that I think looks pretty sweet is that dongle they are making for the mt2496. That'll power 4060s that are wired to a miniplug. Although, I don't know how the A/Ds in the MT sound.
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Might be better just to go with the DPA battery box, or HEB's from CoreSound. Not much price difference then, when you add up new DPA 406Xs, adaptors, & the cost of a SP 9or other) battery box.
the dpa battery boxes are surprisingly inexpensive, iirc
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I've already got an SP battery box that I could use. Would I be better off with the DPA battery box?
Hadn't even considered running them with my MT (don't know how to use it yet :P).
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I've already got an SP battery box that I could use. Would I be better off with the DPA battery box?
Hadn't even considered running them with my MT (don't know how to use it yet :P).
well, I guess it depends. I think the cheapest way to go is to grab some with lemo connectors on ebay, cut of the connectors, and solder them to a miniplug. THis would work with the SP bb. The major disadvantage with this is that the mics are rarely matched - mine from ebay were off by over 3dbs.
Otherwise, if you buy them new, you are probably going to get microdots. I personally think it would be a waste to cut the microdots off, but it sounds like there are adapters to use to get them to 1/8".
I can't speak to a sound quality difference, but from what I read (and what I understand) is that numerically the DPA gear should sound better, but I really don't know for sure. I really liked both setups I had, but I much prefer having the matched mics w/ mma6000. I'd like to get an MPS box at some point.
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Well crap...did i downgrade mics when I went from HEB (4060s) to 4061 / MMA6000?? Having taped a few shows in various settings I think I like the 4061s better then the 4060s. I think it sounds better...Im sure alot of it has to do with going from a coresound battery box to the MMA6000. Any thoughts?
Josephine, I do have a HEB (4060) + battery box / bass filter for sale in the yard sale. Its only one mic as I busted the other one and never got a replacemnt but I'm selling it cheap $250 so even after buying another mic it will still be a pretty good deal.
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I've already got an SP battery box that I could use. Would I be better off with the DPA battery box?
Hadn't even considered running them with my MT (don't know how to use it yet :P).
well, I guess it depends. I think the cheapest way to go is to grab some with lemo connectors on ebay, cut of the connectors, and solder them to a miniplug. THis would work with the SP bb. The major disadvantage with this is that the mics are rarely matched - mine from ebay were off by over 3dbs.
Otherwise, if you buy them new, you are probably going to get microdots. I personally think it would be a waste to cut the microdots off, but it sounds like there are adapters to use to get them to 1/8".
I can't speak to a sound quality difference, but from what I read (and what I understand) is that numerically the DPA gear should sound better, but I really don't know for sure. I really liked both setups I had, but I much prefer having the matched mics w/ mma6000. I'd like to get an MPS box at some point.
MPS bass roll off mod. I plan to hack mine up and keep the basic essentials and add a switchable bass filter. If you plan on buying new, or a pair with microdots, the MPS boxes are a definite consideration.
http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/Forum/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=105&topic_id=275&mesg_id=275&page=2
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I've already got an SP battery box that I could use. Would I be better off with the DPA battery box?
Hadn't even considered running them with my MT (don't know how to use it yet :P).
Ooooh...
The DPA power boxes supply the mics w/5v, the microdot>xlr adaptors supply the mics with 5v when used with phantom power. I think someone on this board was using the MT for phantom for the DPA's, it spits out about 5v if I'm thinking correctly. You might not even need a battery box, perhaps just the right connectors or adaptors. :hmmm:
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I've already got an SP battery box that I could use. Would I be better off with the DPA battery box?
Hadn't even considered running them with my MT (don't know how to use it yet :P).
Ooooh...
The DPA power boxes supply the mics w/5v, the microdot>xlr adaptors supply the mics with 5v when used with phantom power. I think someone on this board was using the MT for phantom for the DPA's, it spits out about 5v if I'm thinking correctly. You might not even need a battery box, perhaps just the right connectors or adaptors. :hmmm:
Cool . . . . my second rig is starting to take (mental) shape. ;)
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:D
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-MIC-POWER
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:D
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-MIC-POWER
This module will power your microphones with 12 volts of bias power
That might be too much, I talked to someone at DPA about powering the mics/home brew bat boxes, I think he said 9v's is about the max. Remember that the specs show Min. 5 V - max 50 V through DPA adapter, but the key word is through the adaptor, without the adaptor anything too far from 5V might fry them.
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The DPA power boxes supply the mics w/5v, the microdot>xlr adaptors supply the mics with 5v when used with phantom power. I think someone on this board was using the MT for phantom for the DPA's, it spits out about 5v if I'm thinking correctly. You might not even need a battery box, perhaps just the right connectors or adaptors. :hmmm:
My DPA batt box outputs 9v.
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I can't speak to a sound quality difference, but from what I read (and what I understand) is that numerically the DPA gear should sound better, but I really don't know for sure. I really liked both setups I had, but I much prefer having the matched mics w/ mma6000. I'd like to get an MPS box at some point.
I have sequential serial # 4061s, they sound similar as far as I can tell, but are off about 2.5db. I think the DPA production spec allows a +/- 3db variance from some standard. Or +/- 1.5db...I can't remember. I'm sure there is a measure for frequency response as well, but I'm not sure.
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Val, the 660 is the size of a brick. its not that big at all. worth it for the superior sound it yeilds.
:)
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:D
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-MICROTRACK-MIC-POWER
This module will power your microphones with 12 volts of bias power
That might be too much, I talked to someone at DPA about powering the mics/home brew bat boxes, I think he said 9v's is about the max. Remember that the specs show Min. 5 V - max 50 V through DPA adapter, but the key word is through the adaptor, without the adaptor anything too far from 5V might fry them.
wow, my bad! I was under the assumption that it just used the power from the mic output from the MT, which isn't anywhere close to 12v, let alone 9v. I know some people here have made one that does exactly what I'm saying (Freelunch).... but this one clearly uses an additional battery.
Scratch my bad advice, and thanks for catching it Genghis! +T in 12.
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wow, my bad! I was under the assumption that it just used the power from the mic output from the MT, which isn't anywhere close to 12v, let alone 9v. I know some people here have made one that does exactly what I'm saying (Freelunch).... but this one clearly uses an additional battery.
Scratch my bad advice, and thanks for catching it Genghis! +T in 12.
It *might* be bad, it might work totally fine, but I'd look into before just to be safe.
backatcha
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why not just get some sort of external mic powering unit? batt box/pre/whatever, they're not any hard to get through security at all. just use the force homie!
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wow, my bad! I was under the assumption that it just used the power from the mic output from the MT, which isn't anywhere close to 12v, let alone 9v. I know some people here have made one that does exactly what I'm saying (Freelunch).... but this one clearly uses an additional battery.
Scratch my bad advice, and thanks for catching it Genghis! +T in 12.
It *might* be bad, it might work totally fine, but I'd look into before just to be safe.
I wouldn't even risk it, personally.
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The connector is not proprietary its made by TYCO electronics but can be purchased from DPA in Colorado for $18 each
new DPA4061's have a proprietary connector on them called a microdot... it looks like a little tiny cable tv coax cable... The way that you can use your sound pros bb is to solder 4061's (presumably from ebay) onto a stereo miniplug.
406x's are great mics.
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I am new to the 4061 game. I have the SP Powered Dongle and ran it recently ino my MT. I didn't "fry" my mics, but wonder what "fried" mics would sound or be like. Again, not having a lot of information or knowledge, what about the MicroDot > XLR adaptors? Those would then plug into say a PS2 with 48v, or is this something people don't do? I spoke to Chris at SP and he said the DPAs would be fine. He also said, which I have read everything to the contrary, I could use my SP AT853s with the powered dongle and it would not cause problems. Everything everyone writes says 9v is the max for the AT853s. I think my confusion lies in Phantom Powering of mics.
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I believe the XLR adapters step the voltage down to 9v from 48v, so you can use a standard 48v phantom source.
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I am new to the 4061 game. I have the SP Powered Dongle and ran it recently ino my MT. I didn't "fry" my mics, but wonder what "fried" mics would sound or be like. Again, not having a lot of information or knowledge, what about the MicroDot > XLR adaptors? Those would then plug into say a PS2 with 48v, or is this something people don't do? I spoke to Chris at SP and he said the DPAs would be fine. He also said, which I have read everything to the contrary, I could use my SP AT853s with the powered dongle and it would not cause problems. Everything everyone writes says 9v is the max for the AT853s. I think my confusion lies in Phantom Powering of mics.
yes, that would be fine. I did it all the time when I owned 4061s. Like madman said, the P48 adapters step down the voltage from 48v to 9v that the DPAs can use.
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another way to power the 406x may be to use the A3 battery box that is available from Soundman.de for their OKM mics. It provides 6V to the OKMs so it may be suitable with dpas.
Has anyone ever tried this ?