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Author Topic: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods  (Read 60321 times)

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Offline Chuck

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #120 on: November 23, 2010, 06:56:28 PM »
No, I didn't.  :-[ Lots of folks say these mics are a bit thin sounding, but I can't believe they are that thin sounding. Did you listen to the WAVs? It sounds like that section of Pink Floyd's album Wish You Were Here just before the song Wish You Were here when the nice full jazz jam switched to someone tuning a radio.

I'm baffled. My next step is to start re-inserting the old parts one by one, and testing after each component is changed back to it's original value. That is, unless someone can point out something I obviously did wrong with the components I changed. I have attached the updated schematic and I put the component values I changed in blue.

The only other thing I can think of it that I fried one of the diodes or transistors or other components when soldering in the swapped components. But, I'm pretty careful and have an adjustable temp soldering station with the smallest tip there is. The strange thing is that both mics have the same exact loss of bass.  ???

I always go into doing something like this as a learning experience. I really don't have much money tied up in it and I have learned a lot so far. I've modified lots of stuff over the years, using someone else's notes and component values. My experience is that sometimes it's worth the trouble and sometimes it's not.

If anyone has any advice on what may have gone wrong, I'd appreciate hearing your opinion.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 07:05:30 PM by Chuck »
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline Chuck

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #121 on: November 23, 2010, 07:29:25 PM »
Funny, that's the only portion of the schematic that I'm not sure what the values should be, because the original MXL schematic has a pot installed rather than the 250k resistors. So, in my mic I think R6 is 2.2k and the two 250k resistors are the voltage divider. I just re-drew that part of the schematic wrong. Does that make more sense? The original values for that voltage divider in the MXL circuit are 91k and 470k. But, the CAD mics I modified use the values I have in the re-draw.

edit:
I don't know the original values for the voltage divider resistors. My CAD mics used 91k and 470k.

Jon, would a problem/error with those resistor values account for the lack of bass? 

I have attached a revision: Modded GXL1200 Schematic v2.jpg
« Last Edit: November 23, 2010, 07:48:40 PM by Chuck »
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline chris319

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #122 on: November 24, 2010, 01:38:31 AM »
Chuck -

You could do worse than to get another one of these mics and keep it unmodified as a reference. It's only a $50 mic. I would also make a reference recording with the unmodified mic with better source material under more controlled conditions, even if it's just you speaking into it. No offense intended but the source material in your wav files is pretty poor. Also, you're making a number of major changes to the mic and you're not working very methodically. Make a list of the components you swap (I don't see before and after values in your schematic, just after) and make a test recording of each modification against the reference mic with each change of components. You could also take the capsule from the unmodified mic and test it against your mics with circuit modifications. Once you take a Dremel tool to the capsule your changes are unrecoverable.

Quote
Those small yellow ceramic caps are all screwed up on them. The values don't match at all. I'm going to have to re-cap both of them. It looks like the person that assembled them just used any yellow capacitor they could find in each microphone.

C3 and C4 on one mic are .22uf and .47uf. On the other they are both .047uf!
It is good that they put the larger values, but...

The caps at C1 and C2 are screwy too. But, all the resistors are right.

QC is not too good on these mics.

It's stories like this that convince me you're better off spending more money on a mic where the manufacturer does better QC. Either that or have something like an Oktava MK012 modded by someone who basically guts the electronics and puts in all new components.

Just a suggestion.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 01:44:50 AM by chris319 »

Offline Chuck

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #123 on: November 24, 2010, 09:28:46 AM »
Chuck -

You could do worse than to get another one of these mics and keep it unmodified as a reference. It's only a $50 mic. I would also make a reference recording with the unmodified mic with better source material under more controlled conditions, even if it's just you speaking into it. No offense intended but the source material in your wav files is pretty poor. Also, you're making a number of major changes to the mic and you're not working very methodically. Make a list of the components you swap (I don't see before and after values in your schematic, just after) and make a test recording of each modification against the reference mic with each change of components. You could also take the capsule from the unmodified mic and test it against your mics with circuit modifications. Once you take a Dremel tool to the capsule your changes are unrecoverable.

Quote
Those small yellow ceramic caps are all screwed up on them. The values don't match at all. I'm going to have to re-cap both of them. It looks like the person that assembled them just used any yellow capacitor they could find in each microphone.

C3 and C4 on one mic are .22uf and .47uf. On the other they are both .047uf!
It is good that they put the larger values, but...

The caps at C1 and C2 are screwy too. But, all the resistors are right.

QC is not too good on these mics.

It's stories like this that convince me you're better off spending more money on a mic where the manufacturer does better QC. Either that or have something like an Oktava MK012 modded by someone who basically guts the electronics and puts in all new components.

Just a suggestion.

Yeah, actually, I did document everything I did as I replaced components. I made a spread sheet with all the pre-mod component values and as I replaced components I added the new values to the sheet. I didn't note that on the schematic. I even tested the mics every time I changed something. But my tests consisted of listen to ambient noise & snapping my fingers in front of it, just to make sure they worked. I should have used a more full spectrum test source. I'll do that nest time.

Yeah, and I just purchased a pair of the KAM i2 mics on eBay for $68!  ;D
They are the MXL clones and come with omni and cardioid caps. I was thinking the same thing as you, that I need a reference to work from. When they arrive, I will make some controlled full spectrum recordings before opening them up. I'll be much more methodical this time. 

As I said, It's learning experience. I'll figure it out eventually.
Yeah, and on that source material. They were set up way in the back of the venue. I had my C-481's ceiling mounted FOB. I just made the recording in the back to see how the moded mics did in a loud environment against mics that I am very familiar with.

Thanks for the input.

If I get the first pair to work right I'm thinking about donating them to the venue, as they don't have a good pair of condensers for drum overheads. They treat me very well there. So, I may be able to do something good for them.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline bugg100

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #124 on: November 24, 2010, 12:02:25 PM »
Hey Chuck, I can shhot new photos of unmodded apex 185 or just report existing values, but am out of town for the week. Let me know if you need any. The KAM i2 looks like the mxl 604 and 185 apex in that it has the roll off and pad switches in same locations....  Curious about their component selection and quality, snap photos maybe?

Your test files earlier seemed to be linked to the same file...  BTW, interesting to know that the test setup was so different...

Jon, thanks for your continued help here!

Offline Chuck

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #125 on: November 24, 2010, 12:19:57 PM »
Oh, I have plenty of photos of the guts or all the MXL 603/604 clones.  ;D
I'd be happy to zip them all into one file and put them up for anyone that wants to see them.

I just tried to download the audio clips I put up and it isn't working right. I rarely use that place. Can someone suggest a better (free) place to upload files too?
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline bugg100

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #126 on: November 24, 2010, 12:39:51 PM »
mediafire.com works well for me.

Offline Chuck

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #127 on: November 24, 2010, 12:42:55 PM »
Thanks.
I'll re-post the WAV's there and zip up all the info and schematics I have for the MXL clones and upload that too when I have the chance after work today.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline Chuck

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #128 on: November 24, 2010, 04:09:05 PM »
If the 2k2 was missing, the circuit would be pretty seriously impaired, but I couldn't describe exactly without building or simulating it.  But since that's not the problem, I would verify cap values at C4,C9,C13, and DC voltages at all points around C9 & C13 (you can't directly measure C4).  C7 is mislabeled BTW.

Thanks, Jon.
I'll check those capacitors and the voltages.



Edit: to add fixed schematic.
« Last Edit: November 24, 2010, 04:12:35 PM by Chuck »
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline Chuck

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #129 on: November 24, 2010, 08:06:45 PM »
Links to generic china mic photos and schematics:

China_Mic_Clones.zip
http://www.filesavr.com/34H5bzjy

CAD_GXL1200_Mod.zip
http://www.filesavr.com/TjE59uE6

Please let me know if these links do not work.
They seem to work better with MS IE and not so well with Google Chrome.
Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline chris319

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #130 on: November 25, 2010, 01:45:03 AM »
Chuck -

Make test recordings of both of your new mics by speaking or playing into them. First see if they even sound similar to each other. Hold one aside for comparison. Next I suppose would be to find out which components in your experimental mic don't conform to the schematic and replace those.

That's how I'd do it, anyway  :)

Offline Chuck

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #131 on: November 25, 2010, 11:35:50 AM »
I wonder if it's because I put 150 ohm resistors in for R4 & R5, rather than 150K ohm resistors  ???  :P
I promised my wife I won't mess with it anymore today, being Thanksgiving Day and all. But, I'm betting that's it.
I'll confirm tomorrow. I just hope I didn't fry the 2N5401's.

Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one.

Microphones: AKG C 480 B comb-ULS/ CK 61/ CK 63, Sennheiser MKE 2 elements,  Audix M1290-o, Micro capsule active cables w/ Naiant PFA's, Naiant MSH-1O, Naiant AKG Active cables, Church CA-11 (cardioid), (1) Nady SCM-1000 (mod)
Pre-amps: Naiant littlebox, Naiant littlekit v2.0, BM2p+ Edirol UA-5, Church STC-9000
Recorders: Sound Devices MixPre-6, iRiver iHP-120 (Rockboxed & RTC mod)

Recordings on the LMA: http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/ChuckM
Recording website & blog: http://www.timebetweenthenotes.com

Offline DigiGal

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #132 on: November 25, 2010, 12:23:45 PM »
I wonder if it's because I put 150 ohm resistors in for R4 & R5, rather than 150K ohm resistors  ???  :P

doh!   Hope you got it, Happy Thanksgiving.
Mics: AKG CK91/CK94/CK98/SE300 D-330BT | DPA 4060 4061 4266 | Neumann TLM 103 | Senn ME66/K6/K6RD MKE2 MD421 MD431 | Shure VP88 SM7B SM63L SM58 Anniversary Cables: Gotham GAC-4/1 Quad w/Neutrik EMC | Gotham GAC-2pair w/AKG MK90/3 connectors | DigiGal AES>S/PDIF cable Preamp: SD MixPre-D Recorders: SD MixPre 6 | Marantz PMD 661 Edit: 2011 27" 3.4GHz Quad i7 iMac High Sierra | 2020 13" MBA Quad i7 Catalina | Wave Editor | xACT | Transmission | FCP X 

Offline illconditioned

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #133 on: November 25, 2010, 02:07:44 PM »
Links to generic china mic photos and schematics:

China_Mic_Clones.zip
http://www.filesavr.com/34H5bzjy

CAD_GXL1200_Mod.zip
http://www.filesavr.com/TjE59uE6

Please let me know if these links do not work.
They seem to work better with MS IE and not so well with Google Chrome.
Thanks for the info and photos.

I'm not hacking these at the moment, but I enjoyed looking at the disassembled capsule.  Hope you got it back together ok :).

  Richard
Please DO NOT mail me with tech questions.  I will try to answer in the forums when I get a chance.  Thanks.

Sample recordings at: http://www.soundmann.com.

Offline chris319

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Re: MXL 990, 991 and Oktava 319 Mods
« Reply #134 on: November 25, 2010, 09:15:33 PM »
That is *not* how I would do it, because if there was an error unrelated to component selection it will not necessarily be fixed.  Then you'd be back to the same components you wanted to replace and still not have a functional microphone.

Man you're getting testy. The point I was making:

Quote
find out which components in your experimental mic don't conform to the schematic and replace those

is intended to overcome the "any old yellow capacitor of whatever value" syndrome described previously, but I suppose you have an issue with that. If the design or modified design calls for a 47uF cap but the assembler was given a box of undetermined-value capacitors to use, that would be a problem.

Quote
verify component values

That's what I just said, Jon!
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 09:20:56 PM by chris319 »

 

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