Topic: Best under-$1000-pair miniatures?

[Church-Audio]

Thanks.  I think I better do a seperate comp to limit the variables.

I think you are correct. In the end its going to be the easiest way. To do what you want to do.

Chris

[Church-Audio]

2nd that.  CA-14 cards> ST9100 is about as good as you can get for <$1K.  Not quite "miniature", but in between the dpa 406x and Schoeps.

I'd look into Church Audio mics before you seal the deal on MM product. CA-14's are very nice.

That was the reason I went with the ST-9100 and CA-14's.  I'm not gonna find mics that perform that much greater for two-to-three times the cost.  I'm in Toronto, Canada so I have to pay 13% tax on my purchase... but for around $400, I got Dead Rats, CA-UBB (for 007 needs), ST-9100, CA-14/c, and CA-14/o.  It gives me a considerable amount of flexibility depending on what I'm recording.  I also picked up the CAFS-OMNIs about 9 months ago when they were on super special... so make that $500.... even then, I'm gonna be happy with the choice I have to pick from.

I'll add that Chris is building and sending me a newly revised CA-14/c and /o with a smaller membrane for the windscreen.  He said the material is about 20% smaller than the current build without any affect to the sound quality/wind noise, etc.  I have the dead rats for when it's really bad out.

The smaller windscreen is actually more susceptible to wind then the bigger one.. That only stands to reason.. All ca-14 mics ordered as of next week will have the new smaller windscreen on them. That way customers can order dead rats if they need them if they dont they can use the smaller windscreen indoors with the no real loss in performance due to the lack of wind.

Chris

[adrianf74]

The smaller windscreen is actually more susceptible to wind then the bigger one.. That only stands to reason.. All ca-14 mics ordered as of next week will have the new smaller windscreen on them. That way customers can order dead rats if they need them if they dont they can use the smaller windscreen indoors with the no real loss in performance due to the lack of wind.

Looking forward to mine, Chris, when you get them done.

It's perfect sense that they're more susceptible to wind with a smaller windscreen on them, but if I was at the venues I was at over the weekend (Copps and the ACC), I would've preferred to have the smaller windscreens if I was indoors.  If I had to "forego" the Dead Rats because of a pseudo 007 situation, I'd likely just use the CA-14/O and be done with it.

And speaking of windscreens... is there any sort of badboy for the CAFS?    I'll shoot you a PM.

[oivindi]

Out of curiosity: How's the s/n ratio on the mics mentioned in this thread?

I am looking for miniature mics for stealth field recording (or at least stealth-ish), but I am unsure how they will handle quiet and quiet-ish recordings?

I've heard the DPA 4060 has a bit of self-noise.

[Gutbucket]

4060 specs from the DPA site:

Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB at 1 kHz:  20 mV/Pa; -34 dB re. 1 V/Pa
Equivalent noise level A-weighted:  Typ. 23 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 26 dB(A))
Equiv. noise level ITU-R BS.468-4:  Typ. 35 dB (max. 38 dB) S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL):  71 dB(A)
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL):  68 dB(A)
Total harmonic distortion (THD):  < 1 % THD up to 123 dB SPL peak; < 1 % THD up to 120 dB SPL RMS sine
Dynamic range:  Typ. 100 dB
Max. SPL, peak before clipping:  134 dB
Output impedance:  30 – 40 ohm

As you probably know, low self-noise is a challenge for all super small diaphram capsules.  The 4060's self noise certainly isn't as low most 1/2" diaphram mics, but that has never been a problem for me on any music recordings I've made with them, including quiet chamber music, hugely dynamic symphonic material and some ecclectic modern composer pieces with sounds that verge on the very edge of audibility.  In every case, the room's noise floor was well above the mic's self noise.  The only time I've noticed it at all is on some very low level nature recordings that required extreme amounts of gain.

[edit- I've not used the less sensitive 4061, which some have reported to be noiser.  DPA's specs seem to confirm that]:
Sensitivity, nominal, ±3 dB at 1 kHz:  6 mV/Pa; -44 dB re. 1 V/Pa
Equivalent noise level A-weighted:  Typ. 26 dB(A) re. 20 µPa (max. 28 dB(A))
Equiv. noise level ITU-R BS.468-4:  Typ. 38 dB (max. 40 dB)
S/N ratio, re. 1 kHz at 1 Pa (94 dB SPL):  68 dB(A)
Total harmonic distortion (THD):  < 1 % THD up to 123 dB SPL peak; < 1 % THD up to 120 dB SPL RMS sine
Dynamic range:  Typ. 97 dB
Max. SPL, peak before clipping:  144 dB
Output impedance:  30 – 40 ohm

[guysonic]

Out of curiosity: How's the s/n ratio on the mics mentioned in this thread?

I am looking for miniature mics for stealth field recording (or at least stealth-ish), but I am unsure how they will handle quiet and quiet-ish recordings?

I've heard the DPA 4060 has a bit of self-noise.

My DSM-1S/H model is the lowest noise (by at least 5 dB lower) compared to most all other smallest capsules including the DPA-4060 series.   
99.9% of the recording samples using this model on my site are totally raw, and not given post noise or any effects editing treatment; see www.sonicstudios.com/mp3.htm looking for gear notes showing DSM-1S/M was the mic model used for making a particular recording.   

Compare my posted raw recordings with other suggested mics raw recordings deciding for yourself which consistently have the desired uncolored sound and low noise performance.

Also excellent for being a most versatile nature/ambient mic is the DSM-6S/EH model using a different capsule with higher self noise, and +12 dB higher loudness handling over the more conservative ~108 dB SPL DSM-1S/H rating

Maybe pay a visit to Aaron Ximm's site containing the many of his natural/ambient sound compositions done using mostly DSM-6S/EH and occasionally the DSM-1S/H model mic. 

The recording page of a favorite used the most versatile, but higher noise DSM-6S/EH model for doing this award winning project a few years ago; see http://www.quietamerican.org/related_annapurna.html
The 53 meg project recording is downloaded from here: http://www.quietamerican.org/download/disc-anna/annapurna.mp3

[WiFiJeff]

My experience with the DPA4060s is similar to Gutbucket's.  I used the DSMs for a while before switching, they are very nice mics, but I've never looked back since the change to the 4060s, which are absolutely perfect for the classical stuff I record, from loud orchestral to very quiet guitar or harpsichord.  When I do four track, I use the DPA4099s (cardioid) with 4063s, these last are omnis that run on lower voltage direct from the Sonosax R84, both of these mics are slightly noisier than the 4060s, but it is never an issue, as room noise is above anything the mic's self-noise can kick into the mix.

Jeff

[oivindi]

Thanks for the replies - DPA4060 certainly sound intriguing.

Should I use a pre-amp with these? I was thinking it would be nice to use a pair of 4060s with my R09-HR, but I also have a FR2-LE. Any suggestions?

[Gutbucket]

All of these mics need power to operate.  I think Guysonic's and Church-Audio's mics can run off the plug in power of small recorders.  They'll correct me if I'm wrong I'm sure.  Still, most of these will perform better with a dedicated battery box or preamp that provides a bit more voltage, especially at higher SPL levels.  The DPAs will not run off lower voltage plug-in power from a recorder and require a battery box or preamp (a possible exception is the low voltage 4063 version that Jeff uses for that very reason, but they are not very common around here).  If you are recording anything where the self-noise of the mic could be even close to being an issue you'll probably want a preamp since the higher gain settings on handheld recorders typically get noisy.

The 4060s can use the DPA preamp designed for them (MMA6000) or many other smaller preamps such as those sold by Guysonic, Church-Audio, Niant, Sound Professionals, Core-Sound and others.  There is the DPA micro-dot connector to deal with, either by re-terminating the mic to something more common, by building the preamp with micro-dots, or by making an adaptor cable.  You can also power them with a recorder or preamp that provides phantom power by using DPA XLR to microdot powering adapters (or building your own, circuit diagram is avaiable).

I use Church-Audio CA-UGLY preamps with my 4060s because they are the smallest avaiable and seem perform comparably to the MMA6000 to my ears.

[guysonic]

NO battery box required.  DSM mics attain fullest loudnes handling performance being powered directly by as-purchased stock Sony PCM-D50/M10 decks, and same full performance for Edirol R-09HR with MOD-4 installed also eliminating Edirol's PIP mic powering noise.