Topic: Poll: Schoeps setups... bodies versus no bodies

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I am increasingly about getting the mics in the "spot" where they will shine best and that means relying on some sort of remote/active set up. Schoeps all the way in that regard.

Not for f'n long!

[acidjack]

The term "active" with reference to such accessories was introduced by Schoeps in connection with their "Colette" (CMC) series of microphones and accessories early in 1974. Dr. Schoeps and the company's chief engineer, Jörg Wuttke, who had led the actual development, were granted a German patent as well as patents in other countries (including the U.S.) for this technology.

--best regards

Just to drill down on this a bit deeper, since you're the expert:

- You've asserted that MKx>Schoeps active cable>CMC is functionally equivalent to MKx>CMC.  That makes complete sense to me.

- But I assume, for example, that once the bodies themselves are completely eliminated from the signal chain - such as in the actual Schoeps solutions with the CMR and KCY>VMS preamplifiers, or in the various "homebrew" solutions that exist like the NBox or using "PFAs" to go bodies>cable>preamplifier - it would be completely reasonable to assume a difference in sound quality, and prefer one over the other, right? 

[SmokinJoe]

I was waiting for DSatz to throw his comment into the ring, which I always appreciate as the voice of wisdom.

I did a comp Saturday night.  MK4 > KC5 (or not) > CMC4 > Littlebox > R09, with left channel having a KC5, and right channel not.  I wish I had something more pristine in regard to the audio being captured, but the result is that I can't hear any flavor difference, and I don't expect most people will either.  I don't consider this a definitive comparison, but good enough to satisfy my curiosity at the moment.  I'll try to repeat it someday with something cleaner, like Club d'Elf on stage.
http://joe.bouchard.com/tunes/with_and_without_kc5.flac     is a 24/44 mono flac.
This file has 15 second alternating sources:
x:00 - x:15 is source A (with KC5)
x:15 - x:30 is source B (without)
x:30 - x:45 is source A (with KC5)
x:45 - x:00 is source B (without)

This doesn't really surprise me.  While the engineer in me says that added impedance converter could/should effect the sound, the consumer in me says "Schoeps designers are going to make that as transparent as possible, whatever that takes".

Reminder, this whole thread started because someone is selling some CMC4 bodies in the yard sale.  I made the statement I prefer the flavor with bodies (I don't care if they are CMC3/4/5/6) over some of the other solutions not involving bodies.  It didn't really have an opinion regarding with/without KC5's, and I still don't.

[H₂O]

Personally I think the convienance of using the active cables with the schoeps outweighs any sonic differences (both with CMC6xt's and m222's).

With actives:
 - it is easier/faster to setup/break down
 - easier to protect the bodies in the bag

I haven't listened to Joe's comparison yet but in the times I have run actives and non-actives I can't tell the difference - too many other factors effect the sound.

[tim in jersey]

I am increasingly about getting the mics in the "spot" where they will shine best and that means relying on some sort of remote/active set up. Schoeps all the way in that regard.

Not for f'n long!

Hmmm? 

[it-goes-to-eleven]

I am increasingly about getting the mics in the "spot" where they will shine best and that means relying on some sort of remote/active set up. Schoeps all the way in that regard.

Not for f'n long!

Hmmm? 

It means that other active solutions are coming.  Specifically, AKG and Gefell.

[SmokinJoe]

Let me tell you how this whole thing started in my mind.  I recently picked up a VMS42 preamp off ebay for $282.  It's like a VMS52 except provides T12 power.  I didn't need it, but it would be cool to try, so I put in a lowball bid and won.

Normally before I buy any new gear I listen to lots of samples from the archive. I try to objectively listen... if I don't like the flavor I hear, I probably shouldn't buy it.  The VMS42 is such a rare box there are no samples.  Then I started listening to "similar gear". I assumed VMS42, VMS52, VMS02ib, and VMS5 would be sonically near equivalent. After listening to dozens of samples on the archive my opinion was "I'm not enthused by a lot of these, I'll probably end up running my Littlebox and this will sit on the shelf."  Then I mentally separated the sources from VMS5 and VMS52 (using full bodies) , and VMS02 (no bodies), and decided I liked the sound of the VMS5/VMS52, over the VMS02.  That doesn't mean one is "better", it just means I prefer it.  I also prefer vanilla ice cream and black coffee, and you may not.  I listened to tapes made with Nbox, Lemosax, CMR's, etc and decided to some extent they all sounded a little different too. They all sound good, just perhaps a little different flavor, which is only to be expected because they are different hardware designed by different people.  To me the VMS52 and bodies has the "fatness" I'm looking for, and some of the others don't. And of course I've heard lots of tapes with CMC bodies and various pres by Grace and Apogee, and those are what drew me to Schoeps in the first place.  So I draw the conclusion the common link is the bodies.  I might be drawing all the wrong conclusions, but right now that's my opinion.

[Myco]

Where's the "like" button around here?

I am increasingly about getting the mics in the "spot" where they will shine best and that means relying on some sort of remote/active set up. Schoeps all the way in that regard.

Not for f'n long!

[jbell]

Have you ran the VMS42??  I'd like to hear some samples.  For that price I'd keep it in the gear locker.

Let me tell you how this whole thing started in my mind.  I recently picked up a VMS42 preamp off ebay for $282.  It's like a VMS52 except provides T12 power.  I didn't need it, but it would be cool to try, so I put in a lowball bid and won.

Normally before I buy any new gear I listen to lots of samples from the archive. I try to objectively listen... if I don't like the flavor I hear, I probably shouldn't buy it.  The VMS42 is such a rare box there are no samples.  Then I started listening to "similar gear". I assumed VMS42, VMS52, VMS02ib, and VMS5 would be sonically near equivalent. After listening to dozens of samples on the archive my opinion was "I'm not enthused by a lot of these, I'll probably end up running my Littlebox and this will sit on the shelf."  Then I mentally separated the sources from VMS5 and VMS52 (using full bodies) , and VMS02 (no bodies), and decided I liked the sound of the VMS5/VMS52, over the VMS02.  That doesn't mean one is "better", it just means I prefer it.  I also prefer vanilla ice cream and black coffee, and you may not.  I listened to tapes made with Nbox, Lemosax, CMR's, etc and decided to some extent they all sounded a little different too. They all sound good, just perhaps a little different flavor, which is only to be expected because they are different hardware designed by different people.  To me the VMS52 and bodies has the "fatness" I'm looking for, and some of the others don't. And of course I've heard lots of tapes with CMC bodies and various pres by Grace and Apogee, and those are what drew me to Schoeps in the first place.  So I draw the conclusion the common link is the bodies.  I might be drawing all the wrong conclusions, but right now that's my opinion.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

Have you ran the VMS42??  I'd like to hear some samples.  For that price I'd keep it in the gear locker.

For that price I'd take it out of the gear locker and run it!

[jbell]

You got that right!

Have you ran the VMS42??  I'd like to hear some samples.  For that price I'd keep it in the gear locker.

For that price I'd take it out of the gear locker and run it!

[SmokinJoe]

The VMS42 didn't work.  I feel sure the seller didn't intentionally sell a lemon. He had sold his T12 mics years ago, and had nothing to test it with. The 12v mic power is putting out about 3v. I looked for simple stuff like 2 contacts touching, but no such luck.   It's at Redding Audio, headed to the factory for repair. He insists on getting it repaired on his nickel, but that might cost more than what I gave him. I told him I didn't expect that. We'll see what they say, which will take a while.

[jbell]

Vark will work on schoeps pres!

The VMS42 didn't work.  I feel sure the seller didn't intentionally sell a lemon. He had sold his T12 mics years ago, and had nothing to test it with. The 12v mic power is putting out about 3v. I looked for simple stuff like 2 contacts touching, but no such luck.   It's at Redding Audio, headed to the factory for repair. He insists on getting it repaired on his nickel, but that might cost more than what I gave him. I told him I didn't expect that. We'll see what they say, which will take a while.

[page]

The VMS42 didn't work.  I feel sure the seller didn't intentionally sell a lemon. He had sold his T12 mics years ago, and had nothing to test it with. The 12v mic power is putting out about 3v. I looked for simple stuff like 2 contacts touching, but no such luck.   It's at Redding Audio, headed to the factory for repair. He insists on getting it repaired on his nickel, but that might cost more than what I gave him. I told him I didn't expect that. We'll see what they say, which will take a while.

Vark will work on schoeps pres!

for a price...

the real question there is; will they beat the official price by enough to warrant it.

[jbell]

I doubt anyone will fix it for free, but I'm sure sending it to Germany wouldn't be cheaper!!  I have had a friend get his VMS worked on at Vark for a good price. 

The VMS42 didn't work.  I feel sure the seller didn't intentionally sell a lemon. He had sold his T12 mics years ago, and had nothing to test it with. The 12v mic power is putting out about 3v. I looked for simple stuff like 2 contacts touching, but no such luck.   It's at Redding Audio, headed to the factory for repair. He insists on getting it repaired on his nickel, but that might cost more than what I gave him. I told him I didn't expect that. We'll see what they say, which will take a while.

Vark will work on schoeps pres!

for a price...

the real question there is; will they beat the official price by enough to warrant it.