Topic: Do I get the Schoeps MK4, MK41's or MK5?

[blg]

I don't think you can go wrong with either, but add me as another vote for the 41s.  I've only done about 10 shows with them so far, (used ca14 cards before that) and in addition to how great they sound, I am constantly amazed by what I don't pick up in the crowd.  I no longer have to worry about what's behind me, and in large part don't have to worry about who or what is to the left or right of me anymore.

I also can't distinguish that much of a difference in sound between the 4s and 41s.

[bombdiggity]

I have the official schoeps screens (which may be essential for the 4V's due to their different orientation to the sound source).  They're fine in a fairly stiff breeze and are actually pretty small.  I've not used the mics in a real wind storm. 

When the wind is really whipping I've resorted to covering the SP's with a thin shirt (going under the shirt rather than over top) and have not really noticed any ill effects on the sound (at least compared to getting the major rumble the windscreens I have for them can't knock down). 

[Jonas Karlsson]

I have the official schoeps screens (which may be essential for the 4V's due to their different orientation to the sound source).  They're fine in a fairly stiff breeze and are actually pretty small.  I've not used the mics in a real wind storm. 

When the wind is really whipping I've resorted to covering the SP's with a thin shirt (going under the shirt rather than over top) and have not really noticed any ill effects on the sound (at least compared to getting the major rumble the windscreens I have for them can't knock down).

Ok, this means the official windscreens may be enough for stealth. The hat cuts some wind too.

Are you referring to these: http://www.thomann.de/se/schoeps_b5.htm ?

I haven't gotten any problems with the CA14's, which have the screens "built in" and can't be removed.

Really excited about getting a matched pair of Schoeps, which ever capsule it will be in the end 

/Jonas

[kennedy]

go with the 4s, i owned 41s for years and they mostly collected dust, if you need to use 41s your not in the right spot 

[yug du nord]

41's with B1, B5 or B5D, and Shure A81WS...  and you're set!!
41's in a bad location can turn mud into silk.
41's in a good location is golden.

And the 41's definitely cut down on the "yahoo" factor IMO.
And yes this is in my fluffy honest opinion.

[stevetoney]

41's in a bad location can turn mud into silk.

Bullsh**.  All Schoeps tapes are muddy.  Me and Bean have confirmed it...and we love muddy tapes.

[Jonas Karlsson]

41's with B1, B5 or B5D, and Shure A81WS...  and you're set!!
41's in a bad location can turn mud into silk.
41's in a good location is golden.

And the 41's definitely cut down on the "yahoo" factor IMO.
And yes this is in my fluffy honest opinion.

The Shure A81WS is probably great for open taping, but not very stealthy 

We'll see which I will choose, I know how to get a good tapingspot for sure, but it would be nice to be a little further back while recording and not have to get right up front 

/Jonas

[edtyre]

go with the 4s, i owned 41s for years and they mostly collected dust, if you need to use 41s your not in the right spot 

^^^^^^

[Gutbucket]

I usually tape with 3 rigs DPA 4023, DPA 4061 and Schopes CCM41 so I get a good idea of omni's hypers, and cards.  And I also just stealth.  So from the same spot i can get a good idea of the sound and after i get home i can listen to each and see what picked up what.

That. is. awesome.
 
Kudos for running 3 rigs to choose between recordings!  Nice to have company in the asylum.

For stealth you might consider using a fur screen directly over the mics without the foam, since alot of the fur screens don't have an inner basket, so if they're inside your hat, they fur takes on whatever shape is inside the hat.

Eh, I don't think that would work so great.  Fur is supposed to be loose and fluffed out to work correctly. It isn't going to work as well smushed into a conforming space in a hat, but might better than nothing if you would otherwise get wind noise though there.  I'd lean towards a foam screen, makes more uniform 'dead air space' around the capsule.

When the wind is really whipping I've resorted to covering the SP's with a thin shirt (going under the shirt rather than over top) and have not really noticed any ill effects on the sound (at least compared to getting the major rumble the windscreens I have for them can't knock down). 

I’ve found thin fabric is often sufficient for omnis and can have less effect on the highs than thicker screens and/or fur.  Can be susceptible to fabric noise rubbing against the grid of the mics with movement though. Not so much for directionals which need more wind protection. 

[sparkey]

A little swatch of speaker (acoustically transparent) fabric in between the mics the wind screens was what we would use down in Telluride.  You'd lose a bit on the high end but wouldn't get crazy wind rumbles.

[stevetoney]

go with the 4s, i owned 41s for years and they mostly collected dust, if you need to use 41s your not in the right spot 

^^^^^^

What I find interesting about alot of the responses in this thread that blindly say '41s period' is that if that's true then Schoeps wouldn't have a need to have included any other capsules in their line.  They would have put an mk41 out and stopped right there.  These responses give no regard, IMHO, to the basic rules of thumb that we spend hours and hours discussing about which capsule is best for which recording situation...unless the only variable anyone wants to discuss is decreasing crowd chatter.  But imaging, soundstage, and overall sound quality are part of the equation too and given the right applications IMHO mk4 always sound better than mk41.  And when used in the right situations I think 21 always sound better than 4s. 

Some are saying hypers on-stage sound great...OK they sound great but are they the best capsule for the job.  No way.  All things equal, MK4, mk22 or MK21 are going to sound better the vast majority of the time on stage.  If you want to use that logic, then I'd just counter by saying...well MK4 sound great from the back of the room too, which can definitely be true.  But from the back of the room, 41s are going to beat the 4, 22, or 21 probably every time.  For a single capsule decision, it's about figuring out what will sound best in the rooms you record in MOST of the time, but I just disagree that one size fits all situations.

Having said all of the above, I tend to agree with the OPs conclusion that it sounds like 41's might be the best option for his particular recording situations.

[sparkey]

go with the 4s, i owned 41s for years and they mostly collected dust, if you need to use 41s your not in the right spot 

^^^^^^

  All things equal, MK4, mk22 or MK21 are going to sound better the VAST majority of the time.

For festival, club and arena taping, I disagree.

[stevetoney]

go with the 4s, i owned 41s for years and they mostly collected dust, if you need to use 41s your not in the right spot 

^^^^^^

  All things equal, MK4, mk22 or MK21 are going to sound better the VAST majority of the time.

For festival, club and arena taping, I disagree.

So you disagree...can you explain why? 

I said that I think they provide better warmth, dimension and soundstage than a 41...all things equal.  Do you think they don't?  If not, what uses do the 4, 22, and 21 provide over the mk41, in your opinion?

[page]

go with the 4s, i owned 41s for years and they mostly collected dust, if you need to use 41s your not in the right spot 

^^^^^^

  All things equal, MK4, mk22 or MK21 are going to sound better the VAST majority of the time.

For festival, club and arena taping, I disagree.

So you disagree...can you explain why? 

I said that I think they provide better warmth, dimension and soundstage than a 41...all things equal.  Do you think they don't?  If not, what uses do the 4, 22, and 21 provide over the mk41, in your opinion?

Sure, all things equal, but we're not taping in a studio so I don't think they are equal as you seem to imply. The guy already said he stack tapes and crowd noise from omnis is a disadvantage. Second, he's stated he wants a good stack taping mic that will supply a stereo image; tighter patterns will aide in this.

So, for his situation, yeah, I'd recommend the mk41s, case closed.

[Brian Skalinder]

jonetubs -- I think it's important you note in the initial post:

• you're making great recordings with both omnis and cards
• your complaint about cards is not around insufficient off-axis rejection (which would suggest hypers/supers might provide an improvement), but rather too thin a sound (which suggests higher quality cards may address the issue)

My recommendation:  skip the MK4s and MK41s, and go with MK5s (mechanically switchable omni/card).

You retain all the same benefits and flexibilities you enjoy today by having both cards and omnis at your disposal, but upgrade to world-class mics for both patterns.

$0.02