Topic: So how DO $45/pair omnis sound?

[Javier Cinakowski]

Very cool, seems like a very inexpensive alternative to the Earthworks Omni's.

[mmmatt]

The accessories are sold each, so clips+screens+matched pair = $56 + shipping ($3 in US)

Right now I've got screens on order which should arrive Wednesday, so orders I've received this weekend will ship Wednesday or Thursday.

I'm working on a directional mic, those are a bit tricky so it's at least a few weeks out.  I should have a clip-mounted omni version ready sometime next week.

Thanks for stopping by and giving us the info on these mics!!!  What a great value!  Thanks for guniea pigging them Dirk.

Matt

[Chuck]

am i the only one who gets "Windows Media Player cannot play the file.  One or more codecs required to play the file could not be found"

i'm using Windows Media Player 10, and i even reinstalled it but still no go.  All my other .wav files play fine ...

any ideas 

I got the same thing with WMP. It opens fine in WaveLab.

[ScottT]

Plays fine in Winamp.  Sounds great!  I foresee a purchase in the near future - can't really go wrong at that price!

[kgreener]

nevermind, i'm an idiot, it's 24-bit, opens fine in sound forge

'twas a long weekend 

sounds great!

[mmmatt]

Opens as a flac in foobar...  These sound amazing!!!!  This is a great deal.  Nice low-pro for stage micing without pissing off the venue, should fit in a hat for people of that persuasion,they would be very inconspicuous for hanging from venue ceiling for crowd or stage,  light enough to fly on a very small cross bar for spits from a single stand...  I would say this is the ultimate newbie omni or for someone who is looking for a pair of occasional use omni's.  I doubt they would outperform a pair of MBHO or Earthworks omni's in a side by side, but for $50 these are the fashizzle!
     I would be real interested in cards or hypers.  I could see myself picking up a couple of handfulls of these for micing cabinets on stage.

matt

[Chuck]

Opens as a flac in foobar...  These sound amazing!!!!  This is a great deal.  Nice low-pro for stage micing without pissing off the venue, should fit in a hat for people of that persuasion,they would be very inconspicuous for hanging from venue ceiling for crowd or stage,  light enough to fly on a very small cross bar for spits from a single stand...  I would say this is the ultimate newbie omni or for someone who is looking for a pair of occasional use omni's.  I doubt they would outperform a pair of MBHO or Earthworks omni's in a side by side, but for $50 these are the fashizzle!
     I would be real interested in cards or hypers.  I could see myself picking up a couple of handfulls of these for micing cabinets on stage.

matt

Yeah, $19 a piece or $200 for a dozen     ... Man, that's a cheap way to start a sound reinforcement business.  Those prices even crush the Oktava's that were so popular a while back. Like I said, I have my order in, before too many folks find out about these and inevitably the price doubles...

[Javit]

These sound really good for what they are, I couldn't believe it listening to the sample.  If for nothing they're great to have in your bag of tricks.  It seems like one of those things that you don't think you'll ever need but end up running them consistently just because.

[Patrick]

Like Matt said, I'd also be interested in other pickup patterns.  Possibly some hypers, I don't forsee myself using hypers very much but it would be nice to have a pair around just in case I find myself in the back of a gym taping from the section 

[Chuck]

Like Matt said, I'd also be interested in other pickup patterns.  Possibly some hypers, I don't forsee myself using hypers very much but it would be nice to have a pair around just in case I find myself in the back of a gym taping from the section 

I'm sure Jon will chime in, but from my reading, it looks like hypers are much tougher to make sound good. I know that the element used for these only come in omni and uni-directional. The uni directional elements I see don't have very good low frequency characteristics. Perhaps with the proper venting/ design the omni elements can be made directional? I'd love to have a set of hyper-cardioids the size of an XLR connector too 

[mmmatt]

Like Matt said, I'd also be interested in other pickup patterns.  Possibly some hypers, I don't forsee myself using hypers very much but it would be nice to have a pair around just in case I find myself in the back of a gym taping from the section 

I'm sure Jon will chime in, but from my reading, it looks like hypers are much tougher to make sound good. I know that the element used for these only come in omni and uni-directional. The uni directional elements I see don't have very good low frequency characteristics. Perhaps with the proper venting/ design the omni elements can be made directional? I'd love to have a set of hyper-cardioids the size of an XLR connector too 

In most cases where I would use hypers taping ambient it is because the bass is heavy and boomy so poor low-end responce may be just right.  I could still also find a use for hypers or cards with limited frequency responce... Shit, a friggin sm57 costs $100!

Matt

[bluegrass_brad]

I built a pair of these myself a couple of years ago and have used them for onstage/matrix work.  These little guys will really surprise you with how could they sound.

[poorlyconditioned]

I'm sure Jon will chime in, but from my reading, it looks like hypers are much tougher to make sound good. I know that the element used for these only come in omni and uni-directional. The uni directional elements I see don't have very good low frequency characteristics. Perhaps with the proper venting/ design the omni elements can be made directional? I'd love to have a set of hyper-cardioids the size of an XLR connector too 

It would be difficult to modify the omni capsule to be unidirectional because there is no vent in the capsule itself, and the back of the capsule is a circuit board with a FET on the inside.  I am working on a directional design using unidirectional capsules, there are a few issues there though.  The resulting mic will have higher SPL handling and lower sensitivity.  Those are useful features for close micing cabinets, toms, and such.  The frequency range is more limited than the omnis, but it's not quite as bad as the capsule specs state.  The response above 13kHz isn't flat, but it is still much better than a typical dynamic mic.  There is a bass roll-off, but there is also proximity effect.  Of course with the loss in sensitivity, there is higher noise.  Thus I believe the omni design will generally be superior for stereo recording.

Whether cardioid or hypercardioid is influenced by the venting pattern, and with the small capsules is not as profound as you would get with a larger capsule.  Therefore if you had an application that was highly dependent upon good off-axis rejection, I would not suggest using a miniature mic.  As I mentioned above, I intend to position the directional mic as designed for louder sources instead.

I've also given some thought to the particular problems of portable recorders and have some new products in mind, specifically a version of the MSH-1A that can run off either standard or very low phantom supplies, and also plug-in power via an adaptor cable.  Look for an update on my website sometime next week.

Nice work!  And thanks for providing to the taping community at a nice price .

Do you mind answering some questions (to a fellow DIY person, but not a seller)?

- How do you get such a low self-noise value?  The WM61A's are rated at 62dB SNR, so self noise (A-weighted) should be 94(ref value)-62=32dB.  You've got a much lower value.  Don't get me wrong, these mics sound great, I'm just suspicious of the number.

- What circuit did you use to drop the phantom to feed the mics and drive the output?  In particular, did you use two PNP transistors (like the famous Scheops circuit) or some kind of FET circuit?  If you used regular transistors, did you use the FET for a constant current source, or perhaps to replace the FET in the WM61A capsule?

Thanks again, and good luck with your business!
  Richard

[Chuck]

Also, how much current do they draw?

[poorlyconditioned]

Do you mind answering some questions (to a fellow DIY person, but not a seller)?

- How do you get such a low self-noise value?  The WM61A's are rated at 62dB SNR, so self noise (A-weighted) should be 94(ref value)-62=32dB.  You've got a much lower value.  Don't get me wrong, these mics sound great, I'm just suspicious of the number.

- What circuit did you use to drop the phantom to feed the mics and drive the output?  In particular, did you use two PNP transistors (like the famous Scheops circuit) or some kind of FET circuit?  If you used regular transistors, did you use the FET for a constant current source, or perhaps to replace the FET in the WM61A capsule?

Panasonic is very conservative in their specs.  Technically, they say >62dB SNR; I have tested noise carefully in reference to mics with published specs, and I'm pretty comfortable with my 22dBA rating.  Or maybe they stated a C weighted spec, which would be odd but closer to 32dB.  There is nothing special about my circuit and noise, that's pretty much only something one could make worse . . .

My circuit does not use the PNP approach.  Primarily that is because originally the circuit didn't use an external transistor at all; it started as a phantom-powered version of the famed Tape Op mic.  As I continued work on the circuit and the constraints of an XLR connector, I was able to add a FET to the circuit which lowered output impedance.  I am about to transition to PCB assembly from point to point, that would allow for another transistor, but I'm happy enough I don't think I will change the circuit.  While I didn't replace the FET in the capsule, essentially the external FET is a current source, fed off the capsule + and thus biased pretty high, it uses a fair amount of current--I haven't measured, but probably 6mA or so.

Thanks for sharing.

I looked at the circuit (homerecording.com forums).  I should comment that the "4.7k mod" we (Chris Church and I) do is a little different than this one.  In particular, we *cut* the traces on the WM61 capsule and put the 4.7k resistor between the source of the FET and ground.  This acts as "negative feedback" to reduce the gain of the mic, which is the reason why it can handle high sound levels..  Aside from this the circuit looks good.  Very nice work with the FET...

  Richard