Topic: Schoeps Mid-Side

[pilgrims622]

Now I just wish that Robert Kwon made an MS KwonBar for the Schoeps/Neumann's/MBHO's

I think he told me one time at a show that he has Neumann m/s bar that he made.  I already have the neumann m/s mount so I dont need one, but if I remember correctly he has made them before.  This was over 2 years ago so my memory is a little hazy

[beanstalk]

I trying to think of a couple more ways over a mod to schoeps/joe meek type m/s mount. Do anyone think that the 2 of the inner clips would fit into 1 outer ring and or putting both mics in 1 mount? Maybe connect 2 clips back 2 back, make more notches for the more bands?


How cool does this setup look?

[F.O.Bean]

its neat but its also not shockmounted....

[shaggy]

How cool does this setup look?

From the same site, I'd go with a Schoeps Native-B active set up anyday over this:

[F.O.Bean]

in that Schoeps pic, I'm sure its correct since its prolly an expensive Schoeps shockmount, but shouldnt the mid capsule's very front of the capsule where the grill is, shouldnt that be in the VERY MIDDLE of the Fig-8's for a correct configuration? Or is this slightly different than M/S_(obviously, since there are 3 capsules used instead) but I always thought and saw a proper M/S setup with the side capsule extruding out towards the stage closer than the mid mic since the mid mic's electronics/whatever starts at the ver front of teh capsule where the grill is, and a Side fig8 capsule doesnt actually receive sound until it hits the very middle of the capsule, thus why Neumann and Schoeps M/S setups have the fig-8 side mic about a 1/4" inch closer to the soundsource than the mid mic

Does that make sense? Maybe I can find a picture to back up my thoughts.....

Here are a few pics to backup my thoughts Check out the first two pics on that page...

http://www.posthorn.com/S_coletteaccess.html#table6

[beanstalk]

From the same site, I'd go with a Schoeps Native-B active set up anyday over this:

oh course.. the force is strong in you.

in that Schoeps pic, I'm sure its correct since its prolly an expensive Schoeps shockmount, but shouldnt the mid capsule's very front of the capsule where the grill is, shouldnt that be in the VERY MIDDLE of the Fig-8's for a correct configuration? Or is this slightly different than M/S_(obviously, since there are 3 capsules used instead) but I always thought and saw a proper M/S setup with the side capsule extruding out towards the stage closer than the mid mic since the mid mic's electronics/whatever starts at the ver front of teh capsule where the grill is, and a Side fig8 capsule doesnt actually receive sound until it hits the very middle of the capsule, thus why Neumann and Schoeps M/S setups have the fig-8 side mic about a 1/4" inch closer to the soundsource than the mid mic

Does that make sense? Maybe I can find a picture to back up my thoughts.....

Here are a few pics to backup my thoughts Check out the first two pics on that page...

http://www.posthorn.com/S_coletteaccess.html#table6

I'm not sure there going for m/s? Is it double m/s? It's omni center or mid and is that 2 fig 8 or 2 cards? 2 cards would make sense for m/s but not sure about 2 fig 8.

[KLowe]

Looks like to me a double M/S setup.

Figure 8 in center
vertical cards on top and bottom?

Who knows....sure looks kickass though.

[shaggy]

This is certainly strange but I think it is two fig 8's on top (lobes side to side) and bottom (lobes front and rear) and a omni in the center!  Native-B format is for surround sound processing (like 5.1 and THX), I believe.

[H₂O]

The above pic does not match the Schoeps site below referncing double M/S

See:
http://www.schoeps.de/E-2004/double-ms.html

It looks like they have it backwards on the above pic (Fig-8 in middle and 2 card's pointing in opp directions is shown on the Schoeps page vs 2 fig 8's and one omni shown above).  Maybe it's another way to use double MS?

[F.O.Bean]

The above pic does not match the Schoeps site below referncing double M/S

See:
http://www.schoeps.de/E-2004/double-ms.html

It looks like they have it backwards on the above pic (Fig-8 in middle and 2 card's pointing in opp directions is shown on the Schoeps page vs 2 fig 8's and one omni shown above).  Maybe it's another way to use double MS?

was the above pic showing the fig8 caps in a bluemein config with an omni in the center to balance it out maybe? Looked like the fig-8's lobes were facing the sides, and werent opposite each other by 90 degrees.....I would like to hear a sample of it tho

[Nick's Picks]

Doug Oade told me he's been playing w/this recently.  really loves it.
I bet!

[beanstalk]

The above pic does not match the Schoeps site below referncing double M/S

See:
http://www.schoeps.de/E-2004/double-ms.html

It looks like they have it backwards on the above pic (Fig-8 in middle and 2 card's pointing in opp directions is shown on the Schoeps page vs 2 fig 8's and one omni shown above).  Maybe it's another way to use double MS?

was the above pic showing the fig8 caps in a bluemein config with an omni in the center to balance it out maybe? Looked like the fig-8's lobes were facing the sides, and werent opposite each other by 90 degrees.....I would like to hear a sample of it tho

for sure..

[DSatz]

Schoeps' main "Double M/S" recording system uses a single, sideways-facing figure-8 plus two cardioids. One cardioid faces forward while the other one faces backward; each cardioid forms an M/S pair with the shared figure-8. The shock mount in the photo is designed so that the centers of the three capsules' membranes will all line up vertically. Since a figure-8 pattern is symmetrical in three-dimensional space, the top surface of the capsule can face forwards toward the center of the sound source(s) while the capsule's main axis is pointing left and right.

It is also possible to use a supercardioid (e.g. a Colette-series microphone with the MK 41 V capsule or the equivalent CCM) for the front-facing microphone--or even a shotgun mike as their Web site shows. But their VST software plug-in is based on the specific characteristics of the MK 8 and a pair of MK 4Vs.

As someone pointed out earlier, a similar thing could have been built around an omni with two figure-8s, given a slightly different approach to the signal processing. But essentially the same audio information can indeed be obtained that way.

--best regards

[beanstalk]

Schoeps' main "Double M/S" recording system uses a single, sideways-facing figure-8 plus two cardioids. One cardioid faces forward while the other one faces backward; each cardioid forms an M/S pair with the shared figure-8. The shock mount in the photo is designed so that the centers of the three capsules' membranes will all line up vertically. Since a figure-8 pattern is symmetrical in three-dimensional space, the top surface of the capsule can face forwards toward the center of the sound source(s) while the capsule's main axis is pointing left and right.

It is also possible to use a supercardioid (e.g. a Colette-series microphone with the MK 41 V capsule or the equivalent CCM) for the front-facing microphone--or even a shotgun mike as their Web site shows. But their VST software plug-in is based on the specific characteristics of the MK 8 and a pair of MK 4Vs.

As someone pointed out earlier, a similar thing could have been built around an omni with two figure-8s, given a slightly different approach to the signal processing. But essentially the same audio information can indeed be obtained that way.

--best regards

so 2 cards 1 fig 8. 1 card towards the source, 1 away and the fig 8 going side? The the fig 8 shared or is mixed with 3 channels?

[WiFiJeff]

As someone pointed out earlier, a similar thing could have been built around an omni with two figure-8s, given a slightly different approach to the signal processing. But essentially the same audio information can indeed be obtained that way.

This is the design of the Josephson C700S.  I will probably go for this sometime in 2008 and step into the world of 5.1.

Jeff