Topic: XLR adapter for Sony D50

[kimkichulacoustic]

Hi everyone,

I'm looking for XLR adapter with +48v for my Sony D50.
I guess BeachTek products must be the best.
However, I'm curious about camera tripod mount screw.
Most BeachTek one is two screw. Sony PCM d50 has only one hole.
Do you have any suggestion? Thanks!

[kimkichulacoustic]

Images
http://beachtek.com/index.html
Original Sony XLR-1
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/BroadcastandBusiness/images/product/front_zoom/xlr1_z.jpg

[flintstone]

Also check out the two channel 48V power supply offerings
from ART (the Phantom II) and Rolls (the PB224).  They
both run on twin 9V batteries.

To connect the battery box to the PCM-D50 and other recorders
thathave 1/8-inch jacks, you'll need a cable like this one from Hosa
http://www.hosatech.com/hosa/products/yxf-247_and_yxf-305.html

Flintstone

[reverser]

I have the XLR-1 and use it with my PCM-D50 and my PCM-D1.  It is incredibly clean and Sony reports it adds absolutely no noise to the line, which from my experience is wholly accurate.  Although it is pricy, because it is such a clean sounding and fitting (attaches to D50 with the tripod thread on the back) unit, I highly recommend it.

[reverser]

For referrence here is an excellent post by Dsatz that describes exactly why the XLR-1 is worth the money:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,92069.msg1258794.html#msg1258794

[Justinasia]

The above post referenced says:

The XLR-1 box seems overpriced, but when looking for a less expensive solution, people need to realize that there's no such thing as a universal passive adapter from two XLR inputs to an unbalanced mini-plug unless it contains a pair of audio transformers. And the good ones of those, such as Jensen or Lundahl, are quite expensive (see for example http://www.jensen-transformers.com/ms2xx.html).

Without transformers or active circuitry, no matter how you wire the box (among the several possibilities that exist) there will be some good mikes that it won't work with, or won't work properly. It may pass no signal at all, or it may pass signal from one output lead while it shorts the other one to ground, increasing the distortion and lowering the maximum SPL of the microphone. Or it may work fine. But that depends on exactly how the box and the output circuit of the microphones are designed. There's no one formula such as "just connect pin 3 to pin 1" or "just connect pin 2 to pin 1" or "just connect pin 2 and leave pin 3 hanging" all of which I've seen people give out as if it was the most obvious, well-known thing in the world.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news here, but let the buyer beware. There is a standard for balanced operation of phantom-powered microphones, but no standard for unbalanced operation. If you imagine that this subject has a simple solution, you're simply wrong and you're headed straight for the problems I'm talking about.

--best regards

Can anyone explain how serious this is? I am thinking of getting the D50 and using xlr mics. Has anyone tried any of the other XLR boxes (other than the official SONY XLR-1) with phantom for connecting to the D50 ? For example, are they likely to work with the AT-3032 ? Are those other boxes not built for the same requirements as this SONY box? Or is the SONY box the only choice? It seems so crazy that is costs as much as the recorder itself, or you could pay $100 and buy an entire Fostex FR-2LE. Something is telling me there must be a cheaper option than this XLR-1 that does the same job.

Justin

[willndmb]

i'm confused
this box you need (one such as the sony xlr1) simply gives you 48v power and with a 1/8 jack that hooks to your recorder?

if so why couldn't you just get a ps2 with the 1/8 jack
or another option like flintstone said
i don't see why the sony one is needed if i understand everything

[nameloc01]

Junkyardt runs ps2>d50.

[xpander]

How many of the current battery boxes are really giving the true P48, if needed? I've been considering ART PhantomII as one option, but according to some tests it will not go up to full 48V. The XLR-1 specs state 48V (+/- 0.5V), although I have no idea if this is true. On the other hand, plenty of mics only need 24V and will regulate any higher voltage into that.

For me the bigger thing is the actual batteries used. D50 uses AAs, I have a decent charger for those and would like to use the same thingies for the BB also. This way my travel package would stay economical and as streamlined as possible. XLR-1 uses the AAs, whereas many others use the 9V batteries.

Since I'm found of recording low level nature sounds with D50, rather than loud music, the quality of pres come into play also. Simple BB might not be enough, although XLR-1 has at least the decent transformers for the proper unbalancing.

[flintstone]

<thread theft in progress>

If you're really thinking about spending $450 on a battery box to go with the $450 Sony D50, then also consider spending $670 on a Sound Devices MixPre or $750 for an Aerco MP2 preamp, and sending the signal to the line input of a less expensive recorder like the $200 Tascam DR-1 or the $230 M-Audio Microtrack II. 

Going line in bypasses the preamp of these recorders, and just requires the A to D conversion and storing the result on the flash card.  Both the DR-1 and Microtrack II have very low self-noise in their line input circuits.  The new $200 Tascam DR-07 appears to be a slimmed down version of the DR-1.

While the preamp in the D50 is very good, it can't match the MixPre or Aerco.  It makes sense when you think that the preamp is just one part of the $450 D50, while the preamp is the only function of the MixPre or Aerco.  Both the MixPre and Aerco can provide 48V phantom power through XLR connectors.

Some people prefer the Aerco sound, which is a little warmer than the MixPre.  The Aerco is smaller and lighter. I like the way you can change the AA cells that power the MixPre without opening the case.  And the MixPre has metering lights and a jack for monitoring through headphones.

</thread highjack>

Flintstone

[xpander]

Ah, right...sorry Justinasia for my thread robbery. I'm just pondering the same thing as you, the XLR connections, but I do have the D50 already. Like said, D50 has nice preamps and depending on situations, might be enough otherwise. But those minijacks, oh well.

What Flintstone suggested might be good consideration.

Alas, where on earth do you find SD MixPre for $670? Last time I checked the local prices on this side of the pond, it was 1450 EUR ($1852)!! All of a sudden Sonys 450 EUR for the XLR-1 started to look pretty cheap option, you know. Not that I would mind getting the MixPre myself.

[crispin]

It seems that WingField Audio has examined this topic..
http://www.wingfieldaudio.com/shop-mic-preamps.html#shop-adapters

[flintstone]

"where on earth  do you find SD MixPre for $670?"

Here are two full service companies with great reputations that sell the MixPre for $665
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/271736.html
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MixPre/

Time to take a flight to USA!

[digifish_music]

"where on earth  do you find SD MixPre for $670?"

Here are two full service companies with great reputations that sell the MixPre for $665
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/271736.html
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MixPre/

Time to take a flight to USA!

I live in Australia, it was FAR cheaper to buy my MixPre from the US, I purchased from B&H audio, had it delivered to a friend in the USA (since Sound Devices have an no export policy from US dealers, B&H needed a US shipping address), then he shipped it to me. I think postage and insurance was about 30 USD (paid him with PayPal). I am sure you could work this deal out with someone here, anyone trustworthy around here?

BTW: There is a new one for sale on eBay here from a German dealer for EUR 809.00

digifish

[Justinasia]

<thread theft in progress>

If you're really thinking about spending $450 on a battery box to go with the $450 Sony D50, then also consider spending $670 on a Sound Devices MixPre or $750 for an Aerco MP2 preamp, and sending the signal to the line input of a less expensive recorder like the $200 Tascam DR-1 or the $230 M-Audio Microtrack II. 

Going line in bypasses the preamp of these recorders, and just requires the A to D conversion and storing the result on the flash card.  Both the DR-1 and Microtrack II have very low self-noise in their line input circuits.  The new $200 Tascam DR-07 appears to be a slimmed down version of the DR-1.

While the preamp in the D50 is very good, it can't match the MixPre or Aerco.  It makes sense when you think that the preamp is just one part of the $450 D50, while the preamp is the only function of the MixPre or Aerco.  Both the MixPre and Aerco can provide 48V phantom power through XLR connectors.

Some people prefer the Aerco sound, which is a little warmer than the MixPre.  The Aerco is smaller and lighter. I like the way you can change the AA cells that power the MixPre without opening the case.  And the MixPre has metering lights and a jack for monitoring through headphones.

</thread highjack>

Flintstone

The mixpre has a 1/8th inch "tape out". Is that the same as "line out"? I.e. can we connect that to a line input of another recorder?

It's great that the Mixpre uses AA batteries. I much prefer that to 9v. But it only lasts for 6 hours with phantom powerswitched off.
The D50 lasts apparently for 25.5 hrs on 4 AA, and the XLR-1 40 hrs with 4AA. That calculates at 30% higher battery consumption for the Mixpre (not including any recorder) compared to the XLR-1 + D50.
Mixpre 0.333 AA/hr (must be more with phantom power on)
PCM-D50 0.157 AA/hr
XLR-1 0.1 AA/hr

Then whatever recorder one would use after the Mixpre will probably have quite high battery consumption too? With the microtrack for example, if you would need to record for more than a couple of hours you'd need a battery pack too! Getting gradually heavier and bulkier.

Weight-wise:
Mixpre = 862g (said to be 0.8kg without batteries, so I included battery weight) Doesn't include recorder and battery pack.
D-50 + XLR-1 = 890g


However, seems like the mix-pre is a good machine. What combination would you recommend using it in then, to keep weight down but able to use for many hours? Is there any setup that can come close to the D-50 + XLR-1 in terms of weight and battery life, retaining at least the same (or better) sound quality?

Justin

[jlykos]

However, seems like the mix-pre is a good machine. What combination would you recommend using it in then, to keep weight down but able to use for many hours? Is there any setup that can come close to the D-50 + XLR-1 in terms of weight and battery life, retaining at least the same (or better) sound quality?

This is illogical thinking given your parameters.  Yes, there are several options that you have in terms of sound quality.  The MixPre / MP-2 both sound very good and have a small form factor.  You can look at an Aerco MP-2, which is slightly more expensive, but is more flexible than the XLR-1.  You can try running a different company's phantom power supply into the D50.  There are other, more expensive options like the Sonosax SX-M2 and the E.A.A. PSP-2 that are small in size, sound fantastic, but cost quite a bit more than the XLR-1.

The issue here is that nobody on this board has actually used the XLR-1 so none of us know what "the same (or better) sound quality" would be.  We can just make educated guesses, nothing else.  The second issue is the battery life.  The D50 has been reported to record for 25 hours on 4 AA batteries.  I have no idea how valid that is; even Sony's own literature shows a significantly shorter recording time.  But the larger question is, in what context will you actually have to record for 25 hours straight?  Most people here would use rechargeable batteries, making the cost of batteries a moot point.

I would urge you to sit back, do some research on the competing products using the search function, and then come back with specific questions regarding your application.  I would fall into the camp of people recommending that you get a MixPre / MP-2, but that is just my thinking.  They pop up used here all the time in the "Yard Sale" forum for around $400.

[xpander]

Here are two full service companies with great reputations that sell the MixPre for $665
http://www.fullcompass.com/product/271736.html
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MixPre/

Time to take a flight to USA!

Thanks for the links Flintstone. I quess I already knew about the big differences on prices, but this is bordering on outrageous. Well, it's been some time since I left USA, no new trips planned too soon though.

Digifish, thanks for your suggestions. I'm in no hurry with this, maybe something will pop up at reasonable price later on also. Some help across the pond could be nice too, when the time is right. But I think at this moment the question of being trustworthy is more on me, I'm the newbie here.

Justin, I think what Jlykos told about sitting back and doing some research might be good....although it seems that you surely have done some already. For me the D50 was pretty easy solution, since it does most everything I want it to, as is. I've done analog and digital track transfers on the move, used it as a quick demoing machine and idea memo, done occasional sound fx recordings and used it even as a portable player/practice help. For all that it has worked wonderfully, it feels solid and is small enough to be carried around easily while still being packed with features. It's just that this thing got me hooked and thinking about expanding my recording abilities even further. Yea, I know, this is not the place to save money...or how did it go?

Anyways, I knew that there are options for expansion if needed. I started with D50 to get a solid quality base for my initial needs and that has worked great.

If I would've needed the balanced inputs, XLR connections or "better" preamps right away, I would've probably chosen something else. As a matter of fact, Fostex FR2LE was high on my list, as well as some Sound Devices gear, Edirol (MixPre + R-09HR) etc. Fostex just didn't have all I needed right away, and we know about the SD prices here. 

Well, not that I know much about these...but just been there, pondering. What am I saying, still do....

[Justinasia]

Hi xpander
Yes, the Fostex has been high on my list too. But just seems not portable enough. I am interested about the suggestion of getting  the mixpre and a lighter recorder. The ls-10 looks good and seems to have not bad battery life. Perhaps the mixpre + ls-10 could be a good setup? The ls-10 being very portable on its own but having the two together for more demanding situations. Would be cheaper and more portable than with the D50. I know the PCM-D50 has a better pre, but for the other parts inside it (I think this means how does the line in compare?), how would the sound quality compare between:

mixpre>PCM-D50
and
mixpre>ls-10  ?

Continually appreciating the advice of all you guys and your valuable experience.
Justin

[headroom]

There i s a strong  indication that my Rolls Phantombox has killed twice my PCM D 50 . With the ART its not gona happen.... Get luck now its ok but will use them only in 12 Volt mode again not in 48 V for my AT 30XX. 4 Safety reasons. The lytics in the PCM 50  are only 16 Volt types. Later I plan to use Transformer coupled Phantom because of the spikes in 48 Volt can toast the Mic Stage in the 50. In 50 Symmetric to Asymmetric Mode  you lose a lot of Gain, because u use only half! One of the Symmetric wires is shorted to the ground. With the Trafo its not possible to loose gain and you can step up 3-6 db with the right type. The Micstage in the 50 is excellent under Levels of 5.5 virtually no noise. A good Micamp is also quiet in moderate levels. Fully cranked up the differences will by much less, even with Top High End stuff. Sorry 4 my english, my native language is swiss german...

[Justinasia]

Hi Headroom
Thanks. If I understand you right, you are saying the Rolls is not good with the D50, right?

[headroom]

There i s a strong  indication that my Rolls Phantombox has killed twice my PCM D 50
YES